X-Verse Fleet Fest I

Merdocharr · Post by **Merdocharr** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 10:18

X2-Eliah: Your fleet is getting so much attention because it was the first one to wield a large number of ships (your fleet has more than double the ships anyone had before, not counting the 380 harrier fleet which was luckily abandoned). And it might have worked as a catalyst for a few more.
Your fleet certaily is a good and a legal choice. The reason I'm wary is because the computer running the battle might not be able to handle a large number of ships leading to some very random results, not because of possible cheesiness. It can be countered with a few PSGs.

perkint · Post by **perkint** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 10:29

I was going to suggest letting 33 fleets into the first round and just running enough first round battles that only 16 get thru (essentially what TJ has suggested). I think that's the best solution

As for the noise over fleets with large numbers - as has been said (by myself and others) it's perfectly legal so leave it alone! If it causes a hardware problem running the matches, yeah - rule changes are needed to prevent the same issue for the next competition.

Personally tho, I think the rules should be left without imposing restrictions to prevent problems we don't even know for sure exist!!! Altho, the idea of having an OWP as king & each fleet is set to attack the oppositions king to win the game, sounds interesting

That in itself would encourage bigger vessels (ie ships with turrets) since, without turrets your fleet would let the opposition pass straight by and start attacking your king! Unless you were to introduce different orders for the different ships in a single fleet.

Bring on the battles!

Tim

Le Baron · Post by **Le Baron** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 10:37

X2-Eliah wrote:
Le Baron wrote:Question:

-Pleco itself with the 200Mj shield it comes with 308390cr
Isn't the 308.390Cr. the price w/o shield?
The site eng.x3tc.ru shows the ship's price as it is available in the shipyards.

I would bet, that X3tc.ru site only shows the real ship price, w/o shields and equipment. You can't buy a Boron TM @300k with 1x200MJ shield. At least not in the german X3TC version, but I would doubt, that the english versions have different prices

But anyway. It's just important we all calculate on the same basis. Technojoker has replied accordingly, so I can update my fleet as well in a positive matter ... for me

NUKLEAR-SLUG · Post by **NUKLEAR-SLUG** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 10:45

There's no need for anyone to drop out.

If there happens to be an odd number of participants then as the original intent I believe was to pick the pairing randomly anyway then whichever fleet is lucky/unlucky enough to be leftover after the pairings can just get an automatic pass into the next round.

It won't provide any unfair advantage to anyone as they'll have to fight it out at some point and if their fleet isn't up to the job they'll get stomped regardless.

As far as the zerg fleets go, yes I expect they'll cause issues with the host computer being able to manage it all, but they're entirely within the rules and if we're running a best of three scenario that ought to at least help to mitigate the effects some.

Mutiny · Post by **Mutiny** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 10:50

I dont think we are doing best of three as there would end up being too many games for TJ to handle

perkint · Post by **perkint** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 11:37

Yeah, pretty sure it's an immediate knock out - one round only, random pick. Which I think is the best way to do it, considering the set up.

Now if we had a couple of people hosting the matches more might be feasible, but I think it's gonna take a long time to get through, anyway! 31 matches, especially if it does take a couple of days to complete each one (which isn't unreasonable)...

Tim

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 12:00

Le Baron wrote:
I would bet, that X3tc.ru site only shows the real ship price, w/o shields and equipment. You can't buy a Boron TM @300k with 1x200MJ shield. At least not in the german X3TC version, but I would doubt, that the english versions have different prices
But anyway. It's just important we all calculate on the same basis. Technojoker has replied accordingly, so I can update my fleet as well in a positive matter ... for me

Hmm. Interesting, so x3tc.ru has fighters listed with S price, but capitals as only hull-price?

Okay, this means I really have to restructure my set-up.

--------------------------------
Okay, fleet list & loadout adjusted while there's still time. Now I have removed 2 Plecos, removed 7 Solanos and removed the 1 Fujin to allow each Pleco to buy a 200MJ shield.

A minor setback, but at least now there's absolutely no chance of me getting over the 250m credit limit, no matter what

Le Baron · Post by **Le Baron** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 12:10

No, even the fighter's do not have the value of the ship you can buy at the ship yard. It just is not so clear as a 1MJ shield only costs 5k Credits

Edit: Now I have changed my calculation as well based on following assumption:

X3tc.ru Prices are prices w/o shields

Here is the current setup: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 08#3241008

Mr-Ten-Percent · Post by **Mr-Ten-Percent** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 12:46

Sorry for coming to the party late, I was just interested if anyone was going to try to record these battles, it would be very interesting to watch.
Anyway good luck to all those involved in this great endeavour.

Le Baron · Post by **Le Baron** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 12:48

If you have read the first post you wouldn't have asked

yes, they will be recorded and uploaded to youtube.

@All: just a question: Is Fight command software required for AI controlled ships to be effectiv, when they are just respawned in sector w/o any further commands?

I think this is just a short, but important question, bcs. some use them in the calculation, others not? So will some pay for useless software or will some see their ships being destroyed without any reaction?

Merdocharr · Post by **Merdocharr** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 13:24

Le Baron: At least it is not required. Ships will fight and fire turrets even without it.

Mr-Ten-Percent · Post by **Mr-Ten-Percent** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 13:29

Sorry, must have forgot that after reading most of the thread, thats great news though, can't wait to see all your fleets in action

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 14:29

Me neither

As for prices: For the next time I'd suggest ingame SY prices (which should be in all Vanilla games the same) for the naked hull, meaning, no sw extensions nor shields are included. Yes, ships would be a wee bit more expensive but everbody would have a valid source for prices and an easy value to deal with (i.e. not substracting shields and FC sw or Triplex Scanners).

I'm on the other hand tired of re-calculating my fleet - IF it exceeds the limit (and must therefore be disqualified) - well, let Aro have the ticket. He has got a decent fleet that could kick a spacefly out of a Kha'ak. An awful lot of firepower; I'd really like to see if firepower DOES matter in this.

@le Baron:
My testing did not indicate that it was the FC that made some ships idle. All ships that attacked showed the normal auto-pillock behavior. That's why my fleet is neither equipped with scanners nor sw - Unless you count the secret weapon on my Deimos as sw.

@all spamfleets:
I don't object against you since your fleets meet all the regulations; however, if it comes out that the game can't handle that and whole fleets sit only still I'd strongly suggest a cap on total numbers - it's no fun in watching hundreds of fighters doing nothing while only a couple guns are firing. Changing rules now would (excuse me) piss a lot people off (me included). So, better forget about last minute changes - another case in which Aro could have my ticket; change the rules now and I'm outta here!

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 15:04

One thing regarding the prices - I'd vote against "check the prices in-game" method, because some of us don't really have a working in-game environment (in my case, one that has any default stats) - therefore an online solution like x3tc.ru is vital for the likes of me. Sooo, I'd be grateful if the prices are still taken from such lists, and not from "in-game" menu (especially since in-game prices tend to change relative to your reputation with the race, right? So that could lead to tons of calculation errors).

Cpt.Jericho · Post by **Cpt.Jericho** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 15:10

I don't know who said that prices change with reputation but I'm pretty sure they don't!

Anyway, I would not mind to take the prices from x3tc.ru - but as hull only price (to keep calcutlations easy and not: Ooh I've forgotten to substract the price of that frakking 1MJ shield!). What I meant, was to have VALID prices where no one can argue with. If it's the x3tc.ru prices, well, why not?

perkint · Post by **perkint** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 15:12

I think neither the game nor online sites should represent the definitive prices next time. I think a list should be provided. Where that list is sourced from doesn't really matter, so long as everyone's playing to the same rules!

Sorry - can't remember who made the offer, but someone has already offered to provide a spreadsheet containing prices based on the current specified web site. I think something like that should be used next time. Makes life a lot easier for everyone. Well, everyone except the person who has to put it together, but I'm sure there'll be no problem getting a volunteer for that, if the current volunteer changes his mind...

And this would also make it easier to define what are acceptable ships - if they ain't on the provided list, they are not allowed!

Tim

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 15:45

perkint wrote:I think neither the game nor online sites should represent the definitive prices next time. I think a list should be provided. Where that list is sourced from doesn't really matter, so long as everyone's playing to the same rules!

Agreed, though personally think some non-buyable ships should also be allowed for XFF2.

The X3TC.RU lists also have prices for non-buyable Pirate, Yaki & ATF ships, which from a cursory inspection seem to be broadly in line with the prices for other ships of the same class. Think a wider range of ships to choose from would make the next contest more interesting.

There are also some non-vanilla ships in the game files I'd like to see used - if someone really wants to blow well over 210 million of their budget fielding a Valhalla, I say let them - would be interesting to see the result (to be honest I'd be tempted to do that myself for the next one if it was allowed, just to see if it could cope against a much larger fleet of cheaper vessels).

Only ones which IMO really need to be excluded are Xenon & Khaak ships because many of them are absurdly cheap.

imperium3 · Post by **imperium3** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 15:51

perkint wrote: Sorry - can't remember who made the offer, but someone has already offered to provide a spreadsheet containing prices based on the current specified web site. I think something like that should be used next time. Makes life a lot easier for everyone. Well, everyone except the person who has to put it together, but I'm sure there'll be no problem getting a volunteer for that, if the current volunteer changes his mind...

*cough*

Actually both ashkrowe and I have offered, so I've sent a PM to ashkrowe offering to collaborate on this one. I'm planning to include an Excel-based fleet calculator as well so it's easy peasy to design a fleet.

The real question is which ships should I include? I agree with GCU Grey Area that most of the unbuyable ships make the game more fun, but there may still be contested points. Should ATF ships be allowed? The Hyperion? Also plotships like the #deca?

Master of the Blade · Post by **Master of the Blade** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 16:00

Not the #DECA : its ingame price is 7Mcr.
The Hyperion is overpriced anyway, so would proabably be OK.
ATF ships have ridiculously good value for money, so probably no to fighters. Battleships, maybe.
The Truelight Seeker may be... interesting in action, to say the least. Don't know whether it should be allowed though.
Advanced ships should probably be allowed, but that's down to TJ to decide.

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Fri, 16. Apr 10, 16:07

Certainly not the truelight seeker.

Also, I'd say no to Springblossom (costs as much as an M3+ and is more powerful than any MM6), the Solano (75Mj shields on an M4..), most ATF ships, the #deca, all Xenon/Kha'ak ships...

And no to PBGs. For obvious reasons.