X-Verse Fleet Fest I

[Triaxx2]

Feh, four or five Albatross with AFAA will splatter him around the arena. Harriers have neither the speed, nor the shields to survive that for very long.

You going to cheat kill the gates so the AI can't run away?

Working without TC is a pain in the... neck. I was thinking two Albatross loaded with FAA, two Pythons with as many PPC's as they would fit and a Raptor with FAA, but I've got conflicting sources on price and armament.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

Flak Artilleries are good and all, however, I don't think the AI turrets would be able to reacquire targets fast enough. Sure, a good hundred of them will probably die... but you'd need to quadruple that. Also, ~1500 mass drivers could probably munch up an Albatross's hull in pretty short order.

Now, what might work is a few M7M's loaded with Flails, if they're told to launch them steadily enough. The target reacquisition on the Flails would be quite deadly, and the range would give the frigates a big advantage. Thin them out with Flail barrages, then wheel in a good handful of FAA-equipped, thick-hulled capitals to work point defense for whatever gets too close.

Alternatively, $250 million worth of PAC-armed Jaguars might do the trick as well. PAC's are a LOT cheaper than mass drivers, so you could field several times as many fighters. This, however, might cause your processor to pack its bags and move to Canada...

[Gavrushka]

A lot of tactics will defeat a mass fighter attack - It's where the much maligned Cerebus would come onto its own - FAA all around with EBC in the nose and due to the very limited Mass Driver range few would get through if 4 or 5 Cerbus were employed together . - The problem with faster small fighters, like the Jaguar, is they are too fast and the AI cannot handle them they'll be either crashing or entering collision avoidance routines as they hit weapon range for bigger targets.

The only area I think I will do well against is where the opponent is reliant on Capital Ships, even in combination with small fighter fleets. Where I think I will gt decimated will be against Anti-fighter M7s in groups like the Cerebus or the Deimos.

IF my missile strategy works correctly 1,000 Dragonfly missiles should be launched in the first minute of combat, not much will stop the majority of those striking home .

I MAY yet change my fleet, if I have time, to drop to 3 MDs and 45 ammo then throw in say 100 Kestrels with turrets set to Missile Defence (with IRE in turret).

IF 100 Harriers can get into firing range of a capital ship I think it'll have 2-3 minutes to down them or it will die - But there are endless tactics that can make me look like a muppet.

[Cpt.Jericho]

@Gavrushka:

Kestrel turret for missle-defence? And what missle is fast enough to catch that? The Rapier and Disrupter missle (both not allowed)!

However, I don't think the Dragonflies will do you much good - get probably launched against fighters first and then even 1000 will hardly hit anything.

AND (I don't mean to be nasty) you're still packing almost 133 packages of ammo to much

[Gavrushka]

I think the Kestrel would be the cheapest turreted ship? - I'd stick the speed at around 250 and have them to protect the Harriers not themselves. You can shoot a flail down yes?

You're obviously more in the know on missiles than me but I thought I'd worked it through....

- Firstly I'd wanted the missiles out of my fighters before entering weapons range - and as the Dragonflies do 250, against the Harriers 220 I'd imagined them as a rolling screen in front of my fighters to confuse targetting and had expected many would still strike home.

Perhaps I'm a fool, but I am sure many of us are going to develop some great new tactics when the battles start.

Less ammo would mean more ships - You are probably right - but hell - It's all for fun isn't it?

[Cpt.Jericho]

Ships will be fully tuned, so the Kestrels would run on maximum speed. Missle-defense works AFAIK only on those missles targeted at the specific ship (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyway, I don't know If you want to shoot down torpedos in an M5 with IREs (blast-radius). I'm not that deep in the know concerning missles - but I know a few DOs and DON'Ts

And yes, this is for fun . But there are still rules and they say 250mg Cr. (+10.000). I actually don't mind that much, especially it's only ammo and would probably not alter the outcome of an entiere battle. But if we slip in one case the rant will eventually start.
As a matter of fact: Your Harriers need not carry all the same amount of ammo. Decrease the amount of ammo by 1 on 133 ships and your fleet is ready for action.

I would also like to ask you guys to check your setups and post the costs of your fleets.

[Gavrushka]

I dropped the ammo to 68 cases (not 69) in original post - the Rules say 250,000,000 and I respect that.

If the Grand Prix is as boring tomorrow as the last one - I'll spend the time working on a slightly more than mono-dimensional attack fleet.

I can see missile defence could be an issue for me - and I'd not appreciated we had to have any craft with max speed.

[imperium3]

I dropped the ammo to 68 cases (not 69) in original post - the Rules say 250,000,000 and I respect that.

If the Grand Prix is as boring tomorrow as the last one - I'll spend the time working on a slightly more than mono-dimensional attack fleet.

I can see missile defence could be an issue for me - and I'd not appreciated we had to have any craft with max speed.

Actually, looking at your fleet I don't think anyone will have enough missiles to counter a three like that. The only problem you'll face, is the threat of melting Technojerk's PC.

Now, my fleet will take some work. But a Phoenix, with the long range of its forward guns, is likely. I'll need to test that though...

[Tenlar Scarflame]

Exactly... I don't think we're appreciating just how many 378 ships is.

One Flail warhead for every Harrier is still ~6 barrages. And that doesn't factor in that the missile swarm will all converge on a single (very unlucky) Harrier before fanning out to go munch on the rest. Lots of chances for missiles to never connect to a target, or for multiple warheads to get munched by a single detonation.

Can't remember, what's the yield for a single Flail warhead?

[Gavrushka]

Can't remember, what's the yield for a single Flail warhead?

I think one would be enough regardless of yield for an M5 unfortunately!!

Is there any form of effective defence against Flails?

[Tenlar Scarflame]

You might be in luck, I don't think anybody has fielded a fleet with an M7M yet.

Anyway, I have occasionally seen AI driven ships use their spinal cannons to shoot down missiles that are tracking them (actively, not just by luck), so I wouldn't say you'd be totally, completely up the creek in this situation.

[imperium3]

In my testing I've not actually managed to get an M7M to fire any missiles without being given the Barrage command. So sadly, in an action like this, M7Ms and M8s are useless

Personally, the best counter to Gavrushka's fleet is probably PSGs. An Oddy or a Deimos would have a field day.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

An Oddy or a Deimos would have a field day.

Now see, that's just mean.

I actually must refute your observation: I've seen AI-driven M7M's launch Flails and Hammers against enemy targets. Not in a proper barrage, but they will certainly use them.

[Gavrushka]

By changing MDs for PACs in Harrier (again only m5 with a top speed AI can do something with) - I could up it to 900 Harriers with 5 Dragonflys set at 100% fire - That'd be 4,500 Dragonflys out within 1 -2 minutes - BUT I think that'd blow any computer apart before any ship got damaged.

I doubt that any computer could handle a battle with as many ships - I think maybe a limit on ship numbers should be imposed.

I might try a battle between a few Deimos and a 100 or Harriers to see how it works out - I think the PSG would indeed decimate the Harriers - but I wonder it any missiles would get through? (and any ships at all?)

[Spychotic]

The AI won't barrage. They'll launch missiles at random times during the fight. With 300 M5s bearing down, an M7M would fire off a Flail every few seconds. It'd take down a couple of the M5s before they got into range but once they did the M7M would be overwhelmed. And it won't intelligently target enemies; it'll just keep firing at one until it dies, then do the same with the next closest one.

AI controlled ships will target missiles; Gazz is the man to ask about that. IIRC they take 8 seconds to reaquire a target. So they're useless against swarms, but will frequently take down odd warheads which are inbound.

As for dealing with swarms of fighters, even flak won't cut it with that many. The man who said the word 'PSG' was probably on the best track, but due to the limited range a single Aggy/Oddy on anti-fighter duty in a fleet of anti-capital-equipped heavies would be of limited use. It can deal only with fighters in it's own small part of the battlespace... and anyone who's seen a PSG being let off knows that it ain't a weapon for picking fighters off the hull of a friendly!...

Spike

[Triaxx2]

Hmm... perhaps a job for Cluster Flak?

Then again, possibly an equal fleet of Susanowa's with PSG's?

[Tenlar Scarflame]

Cluster Flak might do decently, at that sweet-spot range where it works deliciously well (check my weapons guide.) But I don't think it would be reliable enough to deal with 378 targets... the sweet-spot range is only really feasible when the player's doing it. That way you can only blame your own lack of timing when it screws up.

Spy's right on with regards to the M7M - however. What might work is a couple of M7M vanguarded by a couple of Deimos. Let's say an Ares and Deimos fleet. The Deimos are set to protect their buddies, and are armed with PSG's. Sure, the possibility exists that they'll vaporize their buddy... but this is a fleet battle where we don't care as much about lost profits as we do having the last ship standing. If 200 of the harriers are hugging the Ares, sending a few shockwaves in that direction will do a lot more good than harm. The Ares are there for consistent output of damage, so the harriers continue to take losses (and scramble to defend themselves) even when at range. It's fine if they keep lobbing at the same Harrier - eventually, he'll die, and the missiles will fan out to pursue other targets.

Toss in a few Theseus or Perseus Raiders for light point engagement and you might have something that can stand up to the mighty Gav.

EDIT

Re: PSG's, in Terran Conflict only the Deimos and the Odysseus can mount them. They've become big capital ship doom weapons. No more random pirates with big area effect we... oh wait.

[Spychotic]

Re: PSG's, in Terran Conflict only the Deimos and the Odysseus can mount them. They've become big capital ship doom weapons. No more random pirates with big area effect we... oh wait.

Hee hee. I'd been thinking about PBGs myself, but settled on the given fleet instead. PBGs are just to un-gentlemanly for my liking

I found them to be not that much in the way of area effect. They expand their blast radius a little but not by more than a couple of wingspans. You can't hit multiple enemies with them unless they're very, VERY close together (Cluster-close together!).

If 200 of the harriers are hugging the Ares, sending a few shockwaves in that direction will do a lot more good than harm.

Hee hee, the phrase "Shaving with a combine harvester" springs to mind

Same with PBGs, but given the lower area effect, it's less likely to hit the friendly. Well, it's shaving with a katana as opposed to shaving with a combine, but it's an improvement nevertheless. Uses less weapon energy too.

IF, that is, the capitals fly close enough together to be effective. I find that autoplonker collision avoidance usually keeps enough distance between them that short-range weapons like PBG and PSG can't reach to the next ship in the formation.

Spike

[Technojerk36]

It's great to see so much interest!

@Technojerk. What script are you using to spawn you fleets? I'm running a similar idea in the Creative Universe and I feel like the process could be a lot more streamlined...

I'm gonna use the cheat package.

[Master of the Blade]

With all this talk about fighter spam, please may I propose a rule in order to save Technojerk's CPU?

All fighters must have somewhere to dock. So, you can't have a standalone fleet of M5s, you need some TMs or a carrier. That'll cut down on the numbers of ships somewhat. OK, maybe I came up with that a little late...



Anyway, without looking at the encyclopeadia for prices, I'll throw in my submission.

Fleet Name: TTAF Frigate Patrol, 'Eclipse Division'


2x Yokohama, SSC all round and full shielding. That'd be about 95Mcr altogether?

2x Shrike, IBLs in main, GC in turrets (with 50 ammo), FLAK everywhere else that'll fit. 2x PACs in the rear for missile defence. Full shields, 50 wasps, 10 hornets and 40 typhoons on each. That's another 90Mish?

16x Falcon Hauler, 4x EBCs in main, full shields, 100 ammo crates and 50 wasps on each, 50% launch. Is that about 35Mcr?(Whether my idea is accepted or not.)

EDIT: Anything that doesn't come pre-equipped with Triplex scanner, should be given them. That's just the Falcons, then.(IIRC)
EDIT: (again) Working out price now. Cost of everything but shields: 245,775,702. Uh oh... Now I need to find the cost of all my shields(200mj comes standard on F.H. so I'll assume I don't have to pay for it.).

With all shields attatched: 277, 562,310. Bugger. I'll edit the fleet now.

MEGA EDIT: Removed Centaurs, tweaked missiles. Without the centaurs or their missiles, it's 250,521,316, so... Take the Typhoons from the Shrikes and it's down to 247,152,116. Now add 28 typhs back, and it's 249,038,868. Add another 2 typhs each and 249,173,636. Add five to each, and 249,510,556. So make that 40 typhs per Shrike and the overall cost is:

249,847,476