[MOD] Ship Rebalance Mod ver 0.59 [30/08/2009] + 2 COCKPIT PACKS + Alkeena's BSD!!!!

[someone else]

@Chealek: will look at that. moving turrets is not so hard these days.

Something new on the M6 department:

Heavy dragon: I'm trying to move the turrets to have a decent back coverage, but it is not possible due to the model's conformation. (i cannot place a cameradummy in a decent position that allows the turrets to shoot on all the up of the ship and arrive on the back too). I propose to brake them up into 2 side turrets that will have a quite large coverage instead.

Hydra: People (and me) noticed strange "convergence" problems, imho it is due to the fact that the guns are placed far back the cockpit, and when the shots come out they are "angled". I'll probably try the same with the Thresher.

Hyperion: It is a Paranid ship, so that cargo is a bit too much... Maybe the loss can be compensated by PSG?

[Apsody243]

I'm having problems installing PSCO cockpits over this mod for some reason it overwrites the settings in this mod. I'm meant to install it after you're mod right?

[someone else]

yes. but there was a conflicting file left from his original mod.
Redownload and it will work.

[Apsody243]

No good still not working for me for some reason

I'm meant to download the modified version you provided right?

[someone else]

yes, you need to use mine.

you downloaded the cockpit pack after my previous post? you were fast!

no idea, imho you downloaded the old one. No other files conflict.

retry again.

[Apsody243]

Nope it aint working

Just re-downloaded it again and still no go the same thing happened when I used the original file on PSCO's site.

Strange thing is the the 1.13 files that you provided before worked without a hitch



OK finally got it working, it would seem that my browser cached the original faulty download and every time i tried to re-download the file it would send me the one it had in cache.

Solution: use a different browser

[someone else]

cool problem solved. Stupid browsers.

[paulwheeler]

Hi,

I've been a long time player of the X series from X2 onwards (can't believe this is my first post!).

Just installed this mod and I think its fantastic. It really helps to balance the game.

I have noticed one issue though. The ATF M3s seem to have lost the ablilty to install weapons in their turrets. The turrets are there but no weapons are compatible (only, i think, the tractor beam - can't remember for sure, but definately not the EPC). This is both for the Thor and the Fenrir. Is this intentional? I did try recreating the ships using the clone ship cheat but the problem was still there.

I use the ATF Shipyard mod too and love using the Thor.

Other than that its all working really well. Thanks for your hard work on this and for adding compatiblity with other mods.

Cheers

Paul

[someone else]

Glad that you like it.

turrets fixed. you can redownload the fixed version.

Now they will use the EMPC. Seems that all terran M3 turrets share a single Cockpit entry, so have the same weapon selection. I tweaked it to be Spitfyre-only, but forgot to change the two ATF fighters to something else.

if you notice other strange things or have ideas for ATF/terrans let me know.

[Apsody243]

Hey I've noticed something strange with you're version of PSCO's add-on,
the grav and the shield bars at the bottom of the screen weren't they supposed to be removed in version 1.15?

The one you have for download has them.

P.S. I apologize if I'm being too nitpicky.

[PSCO1]

@someone else:
i noticed again 10000.bod was in v1.15c ... and scene files with 10000.bod too ...
for the second time i ve renamed this file to "10002.bod"
sorry maybe i am a bit tired

do you want the update now or i let you fix the problem ? TShips is yet the same

[Gazz]

P.S. I apologize if I'm being too nitpicky.

That would be a requirement for a decent tester.

Once I was even able to convince Derek Smart that there was a bug in his holy neural net AI fluffiness because a certain combination of events would strictly have been been impossible if the AND anded and the OR ored properly. Oh yeah. Stubborn determination can also be a plus. =P

[paulwheeler]

Hi Someone Else,

That did it! The Thor and Fenrir turrets are now working.

Thanks for the swift fix!

As for ideas for the ATF ships... Well the main problem I guess is how overpowered they are compared to the other ships.

They are primarily war ships so reducing their cargo bay would be a good start. Maybe reduce the shields a bit. Its a shame there is not more choice with terran weapons. They should however remain at the top end of the fighter spectrum though as they are specialist ships.

The Combat Mod is essential IMO if you are going to use ATF ships as it greatly improves the speed of the EMPC while reducing its damage. Makes it more of a fighter's weapon. (Lets hope its still compatible after the next X3TC patch!)

Definately increase the cost and rep required to buy the fighters. I think that the ATF shipyard mod is fairly balanced in that you have to have moon access to buy them, but they should definately be ships you think twice about because of the cost.

I haven't tried the ATF capital ships as I haven't reached the Terran rep requierd to buy the guns yet (haven't forrayed into capturing much yet). I've heard the Odin has issues with launching its fighters. Don't know if there is anything you can do about that.

Cheers

Paul

[Chealec]

The lack of diversity in ATF weapons/missile systems is, to a certain extent, a balancing factor in itself.

EMPCs (without CMOD3) are great against Xenon ships (apart from the N), not so much against genuinely fast ships. When you consider the lack of missile diversity which makes ATF ships more into dogfighters than any other fighter-class ship (Thunderbolts ahoy!) they need to be better in toe-to-toe confrontation than most other fighters.

The same can be said of Terran ships but because you can buy them it's much easier to fill a carrier (and they make pretty good AI controlled ships too)... so in a way, because you can't buy ATF ships, they're a little special.

It's not totally clear cut - but ATF ships may be a little generous on cargo capacity... maybe.


Actually - in a way - the ATF shipyard does unbalances those ships somewhat... it makes then much easier to obtain and increasing the cost has a nasty knock-on effect when it comes to building your own in the PHQ. If you increase the production RelVal, which increases the cost, it also increases the production time in the PHQ.

In vanilla you might need to blast your way through a dozen Fenrirs in the hope one will bail - with all the subsequent reputation loss that entails. Even if you do get one, without CMOD3, the EMPCs are slow and, in a way, a balancing factor unto themselves. If you then bump the production RelVal making these ships take even longer to produce in the PHQ...

... I think in essence what I'm trying to say is - go for balance in an otherwise vanilla world - there are too many myriad additional considerations once you factor in alterations made by other external mods.

[paulwheeler]

I didn't realise that increasing the cost had the knock on effect of increasing the build time in the PHQ...

Although, I would have thought the ATF ships would be more complicated to build since they are supposed to be more advanced so is this such a bad thing?

You're absolutely right though this mod should definately balance vanilla first before anything else.

I installed the ATF shipyard as I think the ATF fighters are the best looking fighters in the game and I wanted one without upsetting the Terrans. I remember seeing the first preview screenshots from before X3R was released featuring the Thor, then being dissapointed once I got the game that they couldn't be obtained and only appeared right at the very end of the plot.

[someone else]

@Psco1: no problem, my files were correct from your 1.2 version due to a guy that reported the funny conflict, I just integrated the files modified after your last version, so no problem.

@Apsody: hey! that is your game, if I don't provide what I promise you HAVE to be nitpicky. Then I'll fix it. Looks like the last time i didn't included 2 files that did something to the HUD, try now and see if everything works.

If you increase the production RelVal, which increases the cost, it also increases the production time in the PHQ.

I am pretty sure that this is wrong. There is a NPC relval and is the "price" if you buy, and a Player relval, that can be the "price" if you build it at your PHQ. Just increasing the NPC will have no effect on PHQ imho.

Now, the price raise may be good, and even making them unpratical to build at PHQ in large numbers.
They are Elite ships, quite powerful, quite costly, quite difficult to build.
I think that the M5 could cost as a Commonwealth M3 and require the same amount of rep too, and so on (so the M3 will cost as a M6, and imho is more capable than a M6, so no problem)
Considering that AI disregards the price everything will be ok.
Do you agree? (paying 6-7 milions for a Thor seems reasonable)

I have to look at Cmod3 users too... if I do something that upsets them too much (like doubling the guns on the Khaak m2) they will complain.
No cargo bay decrease for now. Rubbish weapon selection (or one decente weapon with Cmod3) are enough to offset the problems.

btw, there is a "Thor Prototype" in my mod's files, that uses the Reunion model of the Thor but I Locked it out from the markets changing its race to "Player". Any ideas on it? What you think it can become?

In vanilla you might need to blast your way through a dozen Fenrirs in the hope one will bail

No ATF fighter will ever bail. there is a "suggestion" in the ideas thread just for that.

The Odin issues are due to the fact of the docking bays that are placed in a stupid (but cool) place, anyways Alkeena (the one that did the BDS, the hangarmod integated in my mod) said that will look at it. Maybe I'll have a look at it myself.

[Apsody243]

No good the I've re-downloaded the cockpits but the grav and shield/health bars are still present.

[someone else]

now it works. I tested it myself to be sure.

[Chealec]

I am pretty sure that this is wrong. There is a NPC relval and is the "price" if you buy, and a Player relval, that can be the "price" if you build it at your PHQ. Just increasing the NPC will have no effect on PHQ imho.

ooops - my bad You're quite right adjusting the production RelVal (NPC) has no effect on PHQ production times

So yeah - go for upping the price. 6-7 mil for a Thor seems reasonable; keeps it "exclusive" and a bit special. I've never really looked closely at the ATF ships before...

No ATF fighter will ever bail.

Well that's disappointing

[sstbrg]

This mod breaks my savegame. Can't play with it, but I really want to... guide me