Thoughts about space-MMO's

[Vitez]

This topic comes up everytime and whilst I know that everyone is fed up with it and that after this I’ll probably be hang upside-down and have squirrels eating my carcass….where was I? Oh yea!
So, I was daydreaming again, thinking about the MMO’s that are out there AND playing Reunion at the same time.

So, here are my shortened thoughts about the space MMO’s and a possible X-Online. Note that you DON’T HAVE TO READ IT, I’m just living out the possibilities of free speech and not nagging Egosoft or anyone else to make it (that will be on another topic). So please, don’t start this “it’s been said a quazillion times” and stuff. These are just my thoughts.

Also, I put this in to the “Off topic” since 90% of it is about other games.

The space-MMO industry is having its renaissance nowadays with games like JGE, EVE and Black Prophecy. Whit this happening Egosoft would have a great potential in making the ever-so-long promised X-Online, mainly because it would be different from the titles above.

EVE-online
EVE is the World of Warcraft of space. Literally. The scenery is changed from Azeroth to New Eden, spells are now lasers and missiles, while guilds are made into corporations (note: the corps are good). But basically, you can’t argue that deep inside it’s almost the same, or at least has resemblance which it tries to hide. Move mouse, click and hope your skills are high enough. You don’t have to do anything. Even if you’re a wiz in space-combat and have reflexes better then a cat on steroids, you can still die if you haven’t bought and trained the gunnery skill or anything else. Long story short: you don’t control anything….Wait, I take that back: you control corps and alliances. That’s good. But not everyone can (and wants to) be a multimillionaire capitalist scumbag who sucks money out of you ever since you came to this world. So, again: a majority of players don’t really control anything.
But don’t get me wrong; EVE is a great game that even though is WoW’s evil stepbrother, it has a lot of new stuff in it which that greedy little…sorry.. what WoW doesn’t have.
As my last words here I would only like to say that EVE lost a few of its fans lately; at least I believe because me and 4 of my friends who were playing EVE left the game after Apocrypha gave it this whole new gameplay feeling. Don’t get me wrong, others may like it, it’s just that it isn’t the good old EVE to me as it used to be. for me, there became a huge hole in the space-MMO field that needs to be filled.
pro:
- space
- HUGE space
- player driven economy
- looks great
- big ships
- felt great

con:
- felt great
- skill based
- dejavu
- need a tad good PC



Jumpgate Evolution
(I know criticising a game that is not even out yet isn’t such a good idea. Naaah, I’ll do it anyway). NetDevils upcoming game has the biggest possibility to become a great hit. It looks great, can be played on almost every computer, AND it is not skill based! You actually control your ship. Now that’s something space-game fans have been waiting for! But at what price? As far as I know the game wont feature Newtonian physics. And I don’t mean Babylon 5: IFH realistic physics, nor X3’s looks-and-feels-a-tad-like-it physics. No physics (bite my head off if I’m wrong). The game will be totally arcade-style with you in your tiny little tin-can. Which brings us to point b.): no capital ships – at least none which are controllable – yet. Last time I heard anything about this argument, the developers said that “they are thinking on it, but there probably wont be any cap. ships. If there will be, then it might be that they’ll need more that 1 man to handle”. Now, I don’t know about others, but when I run a good busyness in the X-games, I like to get in my pimp mobile (a Titan), and cruise around waving to the polygon-brained NPC traders. And I would sure like to do that to real people to in an MMO. The other thing is that I don’t want to pay to become a turret-boy. If I’m in a battle then I want to be IN it. Sure, teamwork and “for a greater benefit. But I’m greedy and I believe many of us are and we want to be the “heroes” of the battlefield. So, 3 bad points – or more like flaws.

pro:
- you actually control the ship
- looks awesome
- will run on almost every PC

con:
- to arcade-ish
- no capital ships
- puts too much on the “FIGHT” part as far as I see



Vendetta Online
Look above. I admit I played this game only for a short time, but my thoughts about it are all written above. Add: little universe, not to diverse. Pro is that AFAIK there are capital-ish ships.


Infinity: The quest for Earth
In development, Infinity (for short) looks like it will possibly become the grand mother of all MMO-s. And not grandmother as in that old lady who calls you up every weekend nagging about you not coming to visit her. Grand mother as in it will contain everything that you every dreamed of: a huge universe where you can fly anywhere with tons of ships, then land shamelessly on a planet to view the alien world – and all this with an awesome graphical engine.

pro:
- beautiful
- everything you ever dreamed of

con:
- still in development….
- …and holds many secrets



Black Prophecy
Again a game that isn’t even out yet, although it is clear that this will be for the kids of the top 10.000 of our society who’s dads will be able to cough up a small amount of money to buy an atom reactor that will run this monster and hope that it wont turn into Chernobyl 2. Not much is known about the game that it is beautiful and that it’s an MMO that will let 300 players enjoy it at once (again, based on the last info I heard). It might be me but 300 is not MASSIVE on the internet – in fact, it’s not even massive anywhere in todays world. Sounds more like a sci-fi CS to me, where there are 150 terrorists and 150 non-terrorists.

pro:
- another space MMO
- beautiful

con:
- the system requirements will probably beat NASA’s computers
- not much is known



So, after this short summary, here’s what I think:

X-Online
There is a hole because there are no spacesimulator MMO-s which have partial Newtonian physics and balance well between trade-fight-build-think. This hole could be stuffed in with X-Online. First of: X has a name. it’s not like a one-nighter girl whose name you don’t even know and pray to God tomorrow that you didn’t get a disease. No. Egosoft has already proven itself with the X-series and has a paper that she is clean. Second: X is huge. In every aspect, from story to the universe itself. Ships were a different story till TC introduced a bucketful of new ones (which I feel uncomfortable with in a certain way). There are a lot of races and a lot of possibilities. I don’t have to tell you why X is good.
Now for the difficult parts. The games above all contained HUMANS and only humans as playable characters, whilst X only had 1 human faction for 4 games (X, XT, X2, X3R). TC introduced the Terrans and the Aldrin Colony. That’s 3 cool factions. And the others? Well, I really don’t think that becoming a Teladi would be a problem if Egosoft would solve the character making in a way so that there wouldn’t be 2 exactly identical lizards and others.
Space is now bigger which means more space (bad joke) for you to live in. But if players (a lot of them) would want big corporations that expand throughout the X-Universe, then it would have to be bigger. That’s a problem.
You cant doubt that X has always had groundbreaking graphics. But an MMO would need to be playable for a lot of people, which means:
a.) they would have to reach back to the Reunion graphics (which is quite playable now)
b.) optimise more
c.) make a new graphics engine
d.) use someone else’s engine
Capital ships. Now, here I will talk a bit about my own idea: M8-6-5-4-3-TS-TP-TM classes would be played as in the normal X-games (like a simulator), while the M7-2-1-TL would be skill based and movement would be like in EVE. Yes. I would put in skills at a certain level, but to be fair, big ships wouldn’t be able to fire on small ships. And why would you need big ships then? Well…. I actually took this out of my dream MMO where there is a big shield-ship-a-like which buffs everyones shields, and the best way to eliminate it would be another big ship, but with offensive abilities.
Factories. X is all about them. So, X-online needs to have them, but even a moron Boron could see that: every player owned factory that is in your game at the moment times every X-gamer + every X-gamer shooting = server crash. So, what I think is that the tone needs to bee on the quality and not on the quantity. Factories would need to bee more expensive and harder to maintain, so that only corps and really wealthy persons (Billious Gatesesous IV) would be able to buy them. Also, I wouldn’t let them in the core systems. Same for fights: the core sectors would probably be full of (sorry) noobs and carebares (like myself), so fighting would only be possible in the border systems (also, the police would react like Concord [EVE]).
As for the story: dunno. The Old Ones screwed around with the gates again thus new gates are opening with new sectors. This would solve the lack of conquerable space as well

So, the conclusion:
Egosoft, and only Egosoft (+the publisher and God) can decide whether to make X-Online or not. For those of you who don’t want an X-Online: you-don’t-have-to-buy-it. If you don’t want it, then don’t play it. I bought TC, and I don’t like it (shame on me. I’m playing Reunion as I’m writing this).
X-Online would be great and I would pay for it obviously but at a monetary crisis like this (and anytime else) I’ll let them decide whether they’ll make one or not.

[Captain Chris sTc]

How is "felt great" a con?

[Vitez]

How is "felt great" a con?

Felt - it doesn't feel anymore. It lost it's magic to me. Thats the con.

[RavenIII]

I doubt we'll ever see XO, not to say that there won't be an MMO by Egosoft; I just can't see it being the x-series. It has a very set universe now, and one that is unlikely to change (SETA is the main factor) - starting a new/ISP space game allows them to build their own backstory on technology and lore.

That is my hope anyway, though in terms of MMO - I'm just waiting for a decent multiplayer game, though I suspect when this supposed MMO actually comes out I might be in a financial position to actually pay for a subscription

Until then, I'm still very much looking for a multiplayer MMO - co-op is finally reappearing thanks to Left 4 Dead, the PvP crowd has been appeased and spoilt darned rotten... though I like the option of PvP such as that of L4D's Versus, it just isn't what I'm looking for primarily.

I'm still cursing Microsoft for never producing Freelancer 2, darn them!

And for those that aren't familiar:
PvP = Player(s) versus Player(s).
PvE = Player(s) versus Environment (Computer).
Above generally used in MMOs, co-op is usually a small server with 4-8 friends... or at least to my understanding.

[Vitez]

That is my hope anyway

I alwys thought that saying something like this is kinda selfish.
Example: if you have 1 cola and you're thirsty, then you might think that you don't have a decison. But you do: you either drink it or not. If you don't have the bottle, then you don't have a decision. In short: 1 thing is actualy 2.
Anyway, I'm also looking for a decsent space MMO. X-Online is an example because X has everything in it that is missing from the space-MMO's today. But if anyone can make another space-MMO with the same depth as X and the same possibilities, then it's ok with me (Egosoft would deserve the monthly fee, so that's 1 more point from me to X-Online or another online game from Ego).

I'm still cursing Microsoft for never producing Freelancer 2, darn them!

Look on the bright side: if they would have released it, then you might have played it so much that you wouldn't have bought X3 and you would have missed out a great game.

[RavenIII]

Firstly, I doubt very much that I wouldn't have bought X3; after all I have played these games since XBTF... but therein lies the problem, and I know I'm not alone on this - X3:R/TC feels very much the same as X2, and even to some extent XBTF/tension (though I know I'm probably outnumbered, and it is my opinion that they feel the same).

But that is very much a different topic.

Ego said not too long ago that X3TC is the last in the X-Series. So what I meant by "That is my hope anyway" is that Ego stay in the space genre, regardless of what they do - ok, its personal preference for myself that they move away from X to something new. I will agree, in that regard its a tad selfish.

In regards to the MMO market, its mentioned by pjknibbs (I think?) that only 1 in 10 MMOs actually succeed, I'm hoping the likes of Black Prophecy and JGE buck that trend - but it almost feels as if the Space-MMO players have already been swallowed by EVE... unless there are many people looking for a change of game now? (Much like myself and GW players perhaps).

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a multiplayer/MMO space game from Egosoft, I have a recollection of strongly debating for it in a couple of those regular threads. I just don't think it'd be a wise move for Ego right now, current economic climate taken into consideration too.

[Nyax]

What things boil down to with X is that the CONCEPT works very well for a MMO however of course the way it's currently executed doesn't. That of course makes perfect sense because it's NOT currently an MMO game.

It has a very set universe now, and one that is unlikely to change (SETA is the main factor)

It really, really isn't. Obviously SETA would disappear in a MMO X game to be replaced with something else. It doesn't even have to be much of a radical change to the universe's 'Lore'
TC has already introduced the idea of rapid transit within a solar system via the Terrans accelerator gates. From there it's only a small leap for the developers to add a ship based system, and Seta is history. Aldrin has already shown that Egosoft see nothing wrong with stations spready out over a large area in orbit around a planet (thus larger sectors) as would have to be the case in a MMOG.

Egosoft could and would easily change significant aspects of the game to make it fit an online X, mainly because those aspects that currently don't fit, don't exist because of some deep ingrained aspect of the games mecanics and lore. They exist only because that's what Egosoft think works better in a single player environment.

For the Record from a purely selfish standpoint i hope they don't make it though. I have no interest in MMOs. I'm exceeding annoyed and disappointed with Lucasarts right now for not making Knights of the Old Republic 3 (and thereby resolving up the plot threads left hanging at the end of 2) and are instead making that old republic MMORPG. I bet when Elite 4 finally sees the light of day THAT will be online only as well.

[RavenIII]

True enough Nyax, it wouldn't take much changing to make current the X MMO compatible in the game mechanics, although from what I gather trying to get the current engine online-possible would be far too troublesome and costly.

Though one of my major gripes comes from the gate system of the x-series and the grid sector layout. I'm thinking I-War 2: Edge Of Chaos here, that I think had an interesting system of travel in-sector; solar systems and planets, with FTL travel inbetween planets/bodies, wormholes for between solar systems.

It may have been slightly different, my memory of it is hazy. While I'd love to bury myself in this conversation, it'll probably make me grumpy thinking about the possibilities, and then arguing over details.

[pelador]

Save the money from subscription and invest in a cryogenic preserving capsule? Then you might be able to do the real thing.

MMO's do have one thing that single player hasn't however, people, hence more possibilities for dynamic psychological interaction rather than predictable behaviour.

[Dragoongfa]

Save the money from subscription and invest in a cryogenic preserving capsule? Then you might be able to do the real thing.

MMO's do have one thing that single player hasn't however, people, hence more possibilities for dynamic psychological interaction rather than predictable behaviour.

D1e N00d I l33t haxor 111111!!!!

That sums up most of my MMO experiences.

[g04tn4d0]

Save the money from subscription and invest in a cryogenic preserving capsule? Then you might be able to do the real thing.

MMO's do have one thing that single player hasn't however, people, hence more possibilities for dynamic psychological interaction rather than predictable behaviour.

D1e N00d I l33t haxor 111111!!!!

That sums up most of my MMO experiences.

Same here.

[Hob Anagerik]

Never had any of that in LoTRO. I picked a role playing server and had some great experiences with people actually role playing. Good times.

[Tsar_of_Cows]

Never had any of that in LoTRO. I picked a role playing server and had some great experiences with people actually role playing. Good times.

Whatever floats your boat, personally RP servers make me want to pimp slap people and tell them to get back to some form of reality.

@Vitez
Eve = WoW? TBH I wouldn't have compared Eve to WoW, I'd more compare it to a very pretty, very esoteric set of spreadsheets which will let you glance at their Holy Numbers, but will slap your hand if you try and fiddle with them. I felt far too detached from the game, it felt like it was playing with itself and I was just sitting there, like some sort of dirty voyeur watching it have fun in the shower, longingly.

I also don't get how being skill based is a con, I think you mean it isn't at all skill based, like WoW, which is entirely based on what class you have the misfortune of playing and what gear you've slaved away to get, and basically if you're going up against your anti-class or a "flavour of the month class" (they randomly buff a class for a few months every now and again to make people restart ), you'd better pray that they're a drunk monkey hitting their head with the keyboard, or you have no hope in hell no matter what you do.

[Vitez]

I also don't get how being skill based is a con

I miswrote that. This is a real kon.
Anyway, I put 'skill based' as a contra because I was looking for a game where you really control your ship, and not just point'n'click (I have 9Dragons for that).
Will check this game out in a few minutes and I'll see if it will fill in (so many i-s) the gap that the games above left.