[X3:TC] Self-sustaining Complex Planning

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Hi Peeps,

I have been doing some investigation and discovered the following that I thought some of you might find helpful.

Self-sustaining XL Energy Complex (Cheapest Solution) [Supports ~50/61 S sized factories]:

• 1 Boron Solar Power Plant XL
  6 Boron Crystal Fabs M (Sufficient for upto 150% sun)
  2 Boron BoFu L
  1 Boron BoFu M
  2 Boron BoGas L
  1 Boron BoGas M
  n Teladi Silicon Mines L (minimum total yield = 61-n, minimum mean yield = (61-n)/n)
  12+n Complex Construction Kits

The above complex with a single 60 yield asteroid will cost ~46 million and you can add ~1.2 million per each additional asteroid.

The above will produce ~41k ECs in a 100% sector and ~50.5k ECs in a 150% sector (Asssuming 1 mine - more mines mean a little less ECs).

Edit: Other Energy Complexes
Self-sustaining L Energy Complex (Cheapest Solution) [Supports ~24/30 S sized factories]:

• 1 Boron Solar Power Plant L
  3 Boron Crystal Fabs M (Sufficient for upto 150% sun)
  3 Boron BoFu M
  3 Boron BoGas M
  n Teladi Silicon Mines L (minimum total yield = 31-n, minimum mean yield = (31-n)/n)
  9+n Complex Construction Kits

Costs ~25.5 million (assuming 1 mine) and has 50% the output of the XL (~20K @ 100%/~25K @ 150%)

Self-sustaining M Energy Complex (Cheapest Solution) [Supports ~2/5/6/9 S sized factories]:

• 1 Boron Solar Power Plant M
  2 Boron Crystal Fabs M (Sufficient for upto 300% sun)
  2 Boron BoFu M
  2 Boron BoGas M
  n Teladi Silicon Mines L (minimum total yield = 21-n, minimum mean yield = (21-n)/n)
  6+n Complex Construction Kits

Costs ~15.1 million (assuming 1 mine) and has 10-20% the output of the L complex (~2.3k @ 100%/~4.2K @ 150%/~5.7K @ 200%/~7.5K @ 300%)

Nearly Self-sustaining M Energy Complex (Cheapest Solution) [Supports ~11 S sized factories]:

• 1 Boron Solar Power Plant M
  1 Boron Crystal Fabs M (Not quite sufficient for 100% sun)
  1 Boron BoFu M
  1 Boron BoGas M
  n Teladi Silicon Mines L (minimum total yield = 10-n, minimum mean yield = (10-n)/n)
  3+n Complex Construction Kits

Costs ~10.4 million (assuming 1 mine) and has 50% the output of the L complex (~9.6k @ 100%)

Edit: Additional Hints and Tips

• 1. An M sized factory is equivilent to 2 S sized factories
  2. An L sized factoy is equivilent to 5 S sized factories or 2.5 M sized factories
  3. An S sized factory (excluding Mines) consumes 900 ECs thus 9K ECs will support 11 S factories (or their equivilent) - No of supportable S sized factories = K EC's produced * 11/9
  4. All Energy Loops will require either E-Cells or Crystals to kick-start them (I typically use ~10000 ECs to kickstart my loops) - Crystals are probably best suited as they are only consumed by the SPP

Acknowledgements
Thanks to jlehtone for the Crystal kickstart suggestion and for prompting me to note the EC consumption of factories.

[Storm666]

(Asssuming 1 mine - more mines mean a little less ECs).

has little or no effect, just work your maths on yeild

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

(Asssuming 1 mine - more mines mean a little less ECs).

has little or no effect, just work your maths on yeild

It seems that the more mines there are the efficiency drops ... but you are probably only talking a loss of:

• ~60 E-Cells for 2 mines (but gain 3 excess silicon)
  ~90 E-Cells for 3 mines (but gain 4 excess silicon)
  ~105 E-Cells for 4 mines (but gain 5 excess silicon)
  ~125 E-Cells for 5 mines (but gain 6 excess silicon)

So for n mines you get: ~20*(n+1) E-Cell loss and a gain of excess 2+n Silicon. As I said a little less E-Cells produced and it does seem to be proportional to the excess Silicon (which appears to be unavoidable for the more mines you have.. it is possible to minimise the excess silicon and thus maximise the E-Cell output.

A 47+12 Silicon Energy plex produces no excess silicon put producess 5 E-cells less than a single 60 yield roid based plex. Small numbers we are talking about, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

[jlehtone]

I think you have a typo in OP, since you have BoFu and BoFu, while you probably mean BoGas.


6 Crystal Fabs burn 450 Wafers per hour.

If the Mines make less, Fabs slow down. Once food stocks fill up, food line slows too. So less energy consumption. But once the Crystal production drops below SPP consumption, energy production gets slower too. Thus, there may be a local maxima on energy somewhere in between, and where it is depends on whether BoGas and BoFu are as full as possible.

With the exact Wafer match, such as the yield 60, it again depends on the margin between Crystal production and consumption, and whether all the intermediate stocks are full or not.

Same repeats with excess Mines; on non-full Wafer stock energy burns in Mines, but with stock full the cascade of filling stocks drops the energy consumption.


You could get the standalone X3R Complex Calculator by exogenesis, because it has a "simulation" function to mimic a running complex, showing how the stocks do or do not fill over time. But being a X3R tool, you get only the 100% sunlight answer.

[NeverSnake]

A 47+12 Silicon Energy plex produces no excess silicon put producess 5 E-cells less than a single 60 yield roid based plex. Small numbers we are talking about, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

47+12 is 59, not 60.

Also, shouldn't your mine yield in the first post be (61/n) rather than 61 - n? (rounded up).

[jlehtone]

47+12 is 59, not 60

47+12 is actually a bit over 60. This is the Mine subsection of Goner math, and Roger knows it.

Trust me.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

A 47+12 Silicon Energy plex produces no excess silicon put producess 5 E-cells less than a single 60 yield roid based plex. Small numbers we are talking about, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

47+12 is 59, not 60.

Also, shouldn't your mine yield in the first post be (61/n) rather than 61 - n? (rounded up).

Nope ... we are talking about the TOTAL yield of all mines, so basically the more Silicon mines you have the less total yield you require but efficiency of the energy production drops slightly.

• A 1 mine complex requires a single 60 yield roid
  A 2 mine complex would require 2 roids with a total yield of 59 (e.g. both a 30 and 29 roid)
  A 3 mine complex would require 3 roids with a total yield of 58 (e.g. 1 x 20 roid and 2 x 19 roids)
  etc...

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I think you have a typo in OP, since you have BoFu and BoFu, while you probably mean BoGas.

Thanks... Good spot... fixed now

6 Crystal Fabs burn 450 Wafers per hour.

If the Mines make less, Fabs slow down. Once food stocks fill up, food line slows too. So less energy consumption. But once the Crystal production drops below SPP consumption, energy production gets slower too. Thus, there may be a local maxima on energy somewhere in between, and where it is depends on whether BoGas and BoFu are as full as possible.

With the exact Wafer match, such as the yield 60, it again depends on the margin between Crystal production and consumption, and whether all the intermediate stocks are full or not.

Same repeats with excess Mines; on non-full Wafer stock energy burns in Mines, but with stock full the cascade of filling stocks drops the energy consumption.


You could get the standalone X3R Complex Calculator by exogenesis, because it has a "simulation" function to mimic a running complex, showing how the stocks do or do not fill over time. But being a X3R tool, you get only the 100% sunlight answer.

Yup... the above complex though is intended to support maximum drain on the ECs and sustain production thus be a suitable basis for any self-sustaining complex.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Bump .... edited OP (added M and L complexes)

[Storm666]

@ Roger L.S. Griffiths I stand corrected

[jlehtone]

Yup... the above complex though is intended to support maximum drain on the ECs and sustain production thus be a suitable basis for any self-sustaining complex.

Then it is good to keep in mind that a self-sustaining complex is a combination of this energy loop and one or more "production lines".

A "production line" can be, for example:
* Wheat + Fuel
* Ore + Cattle + Cahoona + gun Forge(s)

What is common for all production lines is that their energy consumption is a multiple of 900 Ecells per hour. Mine in the line breaks the rule a bit, as you have already shown in your discussion. And SPP's do not produce multiples of 900 EC/h.

Thus, the drop in efficiency of energy production due to oversized Mines can be rather lot before the complex has to cut down one S factory from production lines, but one has to take into account the Mines of the production lines as well.


Do we have to remind the readers that they have to dump quite a lot of resources (I do recommend Crystals) into their perfectly balanced self-sufficient loops before the complexes run the way the numbers indicate? A "kickstart".

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Yup... the above complex though is intended to support maximum drain on the ECs and sustain production thus be a suitable basis for any self-sustaining complex.

Then it is good to keep in mind that a self-sustaining complex is a combination of this energy loop and one or more "production lines".

A "production line" can be, for example:
* Wheat + Fuel
* Ore + Cattle + Cahoona + gun Forge(s)

What is common for all production lines is that their energy consumption is a multiple of 900 Ecells per hour. Mine in the line breaks the rule a bit, as you have already shown in your discussion. And SPP's do not produce multiples of 900 EC/h.

Thus, the drop in efficiency of energy production due to oversized Mines can be rather lot before the complex has to cut down one S factory from production lines, but one has to take into account the Mines of the production lines as well.


Do we have to remind the readers that they have to dump quite a lot of resources (I do recommend Crystals) into their perfectly balanced self-sufficient loops before the complexes run the way the numbers indicate? A "kickstart".

On an XL Loop I find ~10000 E-Cells does the trick

[Nyax]

Personally I always make sure my self sufficient complexes slightly overproduce everything they make. That way i've always got a good supply of free wares on hand for any other purposes i may have. (For example having a lot of free crystals on hand is usefull when starting off the next complex.)

Technically it may be inefficient, but since self sufficient complexes are basically eternal money makers i find having the wares more useful then eeking out every last possible credit from the complex.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...

In X3:R I followed a similar idea to you, but then my main complex(es) were built to support ship production at the Player HQ and to make up for the fact that GOD destroyed all AI factories producing certain weapons.

With X3:TC, I have discovered other reasons to produce self-sustaining complexes also the complex plans in my OP help me plan for where I can place them and what I can add to them.

Edit: These complexs are only the minimums. You can trade off E-Cell production for excess Food, Crystals or Silicon (and in some cases this may be desirable).

[jlehtone]

"Minimum" implies to me that you an energy loop like above, add the end product lines, and then try to figure out where you can build it (ie suitable asteroids and market for products). My constructions have started by prospecting the minerals, figuring out the Crystals those Asteroids can produce, determination of maximum SPP amount for those Crystals, and then filling in as much (needed) end production as possible.

The German forum had a name for that: SectorComplex. A complex that puts a Mine on every Asteroid in the sector. But these do have a downside: they tend to become big frame-rate eating monsters, and they either fail to achieve self-sufficiency, or sell some odd mixture of low and high end products. Far from "optimized".