## [X3] Mining station guide (updated 2006-01-21)

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jlehtone
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### [X3] Mining station guide (updated 2006-01-21)

Update 2006-01-21: Added a (IMO useless) table

I've looked through many of the excellent guides that describe station and complex building. The matching of production rates of different factories have been described quite extensively. The behaviour of solar power plants and how they differ from the rest of the factories has been explained too. However, there is an another "non-conforming" factory and that is the mine. It is a safe bet to say that a mine on an asteroid with yield 26 is sufficient. That is not the whole truth. One can save on station costs by placing the mine on a higher-yield asteroid, because then that mine can support more factories. The question is how much more? And are the low-yield asteroids worth any?

The production rate of mines is calculated from the yield of the asteroid exactly as it was done in X2.

And how was it in X2 / is in X3?

There is a BASETIME, which is 2400 seconds (40 minutes) for Silicon and 600 seconds (10 minutes) for Ore. Fab_size is 2 for M, and 5 for L.

Code: Select all

``````Basic_cycletime = rounddown( BASETIME / (Yield + 1) ) + 1 seconds
Multiplier = rounddown( 59.9 / Basic_cycletime ) + 1
Cycletime = Multiplier * Basic_cycletime
Products per cycle = Multiplier * Fab_size``````
The purpose of the Multiplier is to prevent the cycle time to be shorter than 60 seconds.

Note too that the division for Basic_cycletime has (Yield + 1) and not just Yield. Put a mine on a roid of wrong type, and you get yield of 0. Division with 0 would be problematic. However, this has a side-effect: when you have several asteroids, their total production is slightly more than just the sum of their yields. For example, yields 12 and 14 produce almost as much as one yield 27. Four yield 8 mines produce almost as much as one yield 35 mine. Almost.

<Edit>
One Silicon Wafer costs 24 ECells to mine. Ore mine consumes 6 ECells per 1 Ore produced. It takes the common 900 ECells to mine the Ore consumed by a weapon factory in one hour. It does not matter what the yield and cycle times are. One unit of mineral costs always the same amount of energy.
</Edit>

Lets go back to that "how much is much?" question. One Silicon wafer is consumed in 1:36. With the equation above we see that it takes 1:37 from yield 24 mine to produce that one wafer. One second too slow. But we have no such mines. We have M and L mines. But a M mine would still produce the two silicons required by M crystal fab one second too slow. However, yield 25 mine produces that same wafer in 1:33, three seconds faster than necessary. Thus, yield 24 is slightly too slow but yield 25 is already faster than the standard rate of wafer (and ore) consuming factories.

<Edit>
Time is difficult to deal with. How about presenting mine yield as how many factories it can support?

Lets make a stab at it:
Lets have a Fab_unit. Say Fab_unit=96s for Silicon and Fab_unit=24s for Ore. Continuing from the equations above:

Code: Select all

``````Efficiency = Fab_unit / Basic_cycletime
Fab_equiv = Fab_size * Efficiency``````
From this we get that if the Efficiency is 1,00 then the Mine M has Fab_equiv of 2,0 and the Mine L has Fab_equiv of 5,0. Crystal Fab M consumes silicon at Fab_equiv=2, so one Mine M with Efficiency=1,0 is sufficient to support it.

If we do try some numbers, we notice that yield 25 Ore roid has Efficiency=1,0 and yields 50,51,52,53 all have Efficiency=2,0. Ore is so very simple.

Ore mine M on a 25 roid does produce 6 Ore in 72 seconds. Its Basic_cycletime is 24s. Tech fabs do consume 3 Ore in 72s.

The Silicon is the tough one. Basic_cycletime for yield 24 is 97s, so Efficiency is only 0,99. It is that one second. Yield 25 has Efficiency=96s/93s=1,03, and yield 26 has Efficiency=96s/89s=1,08. The nice part here is that with Silicon mine L the Fab_equiv is 5*1,08=5,39. Remember that Crystal Fab M consumes 2 anyway and that SPP is a tiny bit faster than Crystal Fab? If you build 3 Crystal Fab Ms, you will be able to consume all the wafers (but may run out occasionally). However, the amount of crystals is garanteed to supply one SPP L. It is possible, however, that the "sunlight" value of the sectors change at some point. That may make some SPPs run faster. That should not be a problem.
</Edit>

Why do the other guides then tend to recommend yield 26 asteroids? For one, they are common. They are sufficient. They are closer to the wafer consumption of the solar power plants. The SPP is, after all, faster than crystal fab, if only by one second. Unfortunately, we can not have fractional stations. The only way to get the most out of all, is to have a set of mines that produces X wafers in unit of time and a different set of crystal fabs that consumes exactly X wafers in unit of time, and then have enough SPPs to consume exactly the amount of crystals produced in unit of time. That means big complex. I do not know, whether that is even possible, asteroid yields being what they are.

What is important to note is that one can add up the production of several mines and figure out how many factories that can support. A low yield mine may seem like waste of money, but it may all that is needed to supply your next PPC factory.

Asteroids are a limited natural resource. Once they are all mined, the limit has been reached. One can always fill the space with factories, but without mines they remain empty. IMO a medium mine is waste of natural resources. Save for the large one.

For those, who cannot do elementary arithmetics, not even with free spreadsheets around, here is a table, where yield and corresponding Fab_equiv are listed. (Read this many factories the yield can support.)

Code: Select all

``````Yield	Ore S	Ore M	Ore L	Sil S	Sil M	Sil L
0	 0,04	0,08	0,2	0,04	0,08	0,2
1	 0,08	0,16	0,4	0,08	0,16	0,4
2	 0,12	0,24	0,6	0,12	0,24	0,6
3	 0,16	0,32	0,79	0,16	0,32	0,8
4	 0,2	 0,4	 0,99	0,2	0,4	1
5	 0,24	0,48	1,19	0,24	0,48	1,2
6	 0,28	0,56	1,4	0,28	0,56	1,4
7	 0,32	0,63	1,58	0,32	0,64	1,59
8	 0,36	0,72	1,79	0,36	0,72	1,8
9	 0,39	0,79	1,97	0,4	0,8	1,99
10	0,44	0,87	2,18	0,44	0,88	2,19
11	0,47	0,94	2,35	0,48	0,96	2,39
12	0,51	1,02	2,55	0,52	1,04	2,59
13	0,56	1,12	2,79	0,56	1,12	2,79
14	0,59	1,17	2,93	0,6	1,19	2,98
15	0,63	1,26	3,16	0,64	1,27	3,18
16	0,67	1,33	3,33	0,68	1,35	3,38
17	0,71	1,41	3,53	0,72	1,43	3,58
18	0,75	1,5	3,75	0,76	1,51	3,78
19	0,77	1,55	3,87	0,79	1,59	3,97
20	0,83	1,66	4,14	0,83	1,67	4,17
21	0,86	1,71	4,29	0,87	1,75	4,36
22	0,89	1,78	4,44	0,91	1,83	4,57
23	0,92	1,85	4,62	0,95	1,9	4,75
24	0,96	1,92	4,8	0,99	1,98	4,95
25	1	2	5	1,03	2,06	5,16
26	1,04	2,09	5,22	1,08	2,16	5,39
27	1,09	2,18	5,45	1,12	2,23	5,58
28	1,14	2,29	5,71	1,16	2,31	5,78
29	1,14	2,29	5,71	1,19	2,37	5,93
30	1,2	2,4	6	1,23	2,46	6,15
31	1,26	2,53	6,32	1,26	2,53	6,32
32	1,26	2,53	6,32	1,32	2,63	6,58
33	1,33	2,67	6,67	1,35	2,7	6,76
34	1,33	2,67	6,67	1,39	2,78	6,96
35	1,41	2,82	7,06	1,43	2,87	7,16
36	1,41	2,82	7,06	1,48	2,95	7,38
37	1,5	3	7,5	1,5	3	7,5
38	1,5	3	7,5	1,55	3,1	7,74
39	1,5	3	7,5	1,57	3,15	7,87
40	1,6	3,2	8	1,63	3,25	8,14
41	1,6	3,2	8	1,66	3,31	8,28
42	1,71	3,43	8,57	1,71	3,43	8,57
43	1,71	3,43	8,57	1,75	3,49	8,73
44	1,71	3,43	8,57	1,78	3,56	8,89
45	1,71	3,43	8,57	1,81	3,62	9,06
46	1,85	3,69	9,23	1,85	3,69	9,23
47	1,85	3,69	9,23	1,88	3,76	9,41
48	1,85	3,69	9,23	1,96	3,92	9,8
49	1,85	3,69	9,23	1,96	3,92	9,8
50	2	4	10	2	4	10
51	2	4	10	2,04	4,09	10,21
52	2	4	10	2,09	4,17	10,43
53	2	4	10	2,13	4,27	10,67
54	2,18	4,36	10,91	2,18	4,36	10,91
55	2,18	4,36	10,91	2,23	4,47	11,16
57	2,18	4,36	10,91	2,29	4,57	11,43
58	2,18	4,36	10,91	2,34	4,68	11,71
60	2,4	4,8	12	2,4	4,8	12
61	2,4	4,8	12	2,46	4,92	12,31
63	2,4	4,8	12	2,53	5,05	12,63
64	2,4	4,8	12	2,59	5,19	12,97
66	2,67	5,33	13,33	2,67	5,33	13,33
68	2,67	5,33	13,33	2,74	5,49	13,71
70	2,67	5,33	13,33	2,82	5,65	14,12
72	2,67	5,33	13,33	2,91	5,82	14,55
75	3	6	15	3	6	15
77	3	6	15	3,1	6,19	15,48
80	3	6	15	3,2	6,4	16
82	3	6	15	3,31	6,62	16,55
85	3,43	6,86	17,14	3,43	6,86	17,14
88	3,43	6,86	17,14	3,56	7,11	17,78
91	3,43	6,86	17,14	3,56	7,11	17,78
92	3,43	6,86	17,14	3,69	7,38	18,46
96	3,43	6,86	17,14	3,84	7,68	19,2
100	4	8	20	4	8	20
104	4	8	20	4,17	8,35	20,87
109	4	8	20	4,36	8,73	21,82
114	4	8	20	4,57	9,14	22,86
120	4,8	9,6	24	4,8	9,6	24
126	4,8	9,6	24	5,05	10,11	25,26
133	4,8	9,6	24	5,33	10,67	26,67
141	4,8	9,6	24	5,65	11,29	28,24
150	6	12	30	6	12	30
160	6	12	30	6,4	12,8	32
171	6	12	30	6,86	13,71	34,29
184	6	12	30	7,38	14,77	36,92
200	8	16	40	8	16	40``````
Last edited by jlehtone on Sat, 21. Jan 06, 20:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Malcolm (Cyteen)
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From the notes I have here, it does appear that the Teladi produce the cheapest mines for both ore and silicon. I have not confirmed this in game however.

Interesting post, thank you.

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Iron Giant
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### Re: [X3] Mining station guide

jlehtone wrote:
Asteroids are a limited natural resource. Once they are all mined, the limit has been reached. One can always fill the space with factories, but without mines they remain empty. IMO a medium mine is waste of natural resources. Save for the large one.
Are you saying that

1. asteroids run out of ore

or

2. once every asteriod in the entire universe has a mine, you will reach a limit of ore for the whole universe (but it wont run out..)

??

if its #1, thats a bummer. if its #2, ... to paraprase a movie line from the 1980's, "how many yachts can you ski from anyway??"

jlehtone
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### Re: [X3] Mining station guide

Iron Giant wrote: Are you saying that

2. once every asteriod in the entire universe has a mine, you will reach a limit of ore for the whole universe (but it wont run out..)

??

if its #1, thats a bummer. if its #2, ... to paraprase a movie line from the 1980's, "how many yachts can you ski from anyway??"
Yes, that is the theoretical limit, and the mines never run dry.

But, if things go as in X2, you can blow up a mine and it will be gone for good. Even the AI can do that now. Besides, I have never even considered building mines in the Kha'ak sectors.

And then there is the local market. The North-Western sectors are pretty empty from asteroids. One should not overlook the small roids that remain. With Large Mines one can still set up good complexes on them. A yield 10 mine L is about as productive as yield 25 mine M, and a yield 12 mine M can support one high-tech fab.

The amount of ore and wafers is almost fivefold from what it was in X2. Not bad.
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jlehtone
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*update bump*
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So what is the difference between L and M mines ?
Do they produce quicker/slower or at the same rate ?
I thought the only difference was the amount they could hold.

Shokai
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An M class station will produce at a rate of 2.0, An L will produce at 5.0, an XL station at 10. So yes, the L will get more faster than an M

Shokai
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jlehtone
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The "scale" of production is x2, x5, and x10 for M, L, and XL. There are no XL mines. The scale affects the stock size and the number of products per cycle. It does not affect the cycle time.

Thus, mine M and mine L (on same yield) have exactly the same cycle time. However, the L will produce 2.5 times more than M in one cycle.

L is not faster than M, but is does produce more.

Effectively the same, but since factories do produce in fixed-time cycles, one cannot be faster.
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Shokai
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jlehtone wrote:The "scale" of production is x2, x5, and x10 for M, L, and XL. There are no XL mines. The scale affects the stock size and the number of products per cycle. It does not affect the cycle time.

Thus, mine M and mine L (on same yield) have exactly the same cycle time. However, the L will produce 2.5 times more than M in one cycle.

L is not faster than M, but is does produce more.

Effectively the same, but since factories do produce in fixed-time cycles, one cannot be faster.

Point taken.

Shokai
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boran_blok
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now I might have missed in some formulas but isnt it so then that the cycletime goes down and then jumps up when the multiplier gets a bump ?

I have put these into excell and if i'm not mistaking (which might very well be the case)

a yield of 39 gives a cycletime of 61 seconds. but a yield 40 has a cycletime of 118 seconds. am I correct ?

and the best yield would then be either 80 or 81, both giving a cycletime of 60 sec.

jlehtone
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The Basic_cycletime goes down, it is 61 seconds for yield 39 and 59 seconds for yield 40.

However, cycletimes below 60 seconds are not allowed. Therefore both the Basic_cycletime and products per cycle are multiplied by an integer. Yield 40 mine thus produces in one cycle (in 118 seconds) the same amount as yield 39 mine produces in two cycles (in 122 seconds). That multiplier and "bump" are merely cosmetic.
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boran_blok
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IC so cycle time goes up but so does production.

Augustini
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I havn't gotten to placing mines yet, but i'm going to very shortly. I have one question though.

Can you place more than 1 mine on a roid? can you for instance place 2 or 3 mines?

didn't want to make a new topic out of this!

jlehtone
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augustini wrote:Can you place more than 1 mine on a roid? can you for instance place 2 or 3 mines?
No, only one mine per roid. Actually, building a mine on a roid removes that roid and puts a mine object in its place.
However, an Ore mine L on a 25-yield roid can already support 5 weapon/shield/missile factories. As is, some sectors can support huge complexes.

Just the thought that big complexes are (a) sure way to low fps in sector, and (b) probably primary target for Khaak task forces, sounds tempting.
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ggvw
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I have been looking for a table but I could not find one. So I put excel to work with the formula, and it came up with this.

Ore and Sillicon mines table

I checked the results for 27 yield ore mines and a 31 and 26 yield sillicon mine and they are correct. But I'm not very sure if the table is correct for the very low (< 3) yield sillicon mines.

jlehtone
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ggvw wrote:I checked the results for 27 yield ore mines and a 31 and 26 yield sillicon mine and they are correct. But I'm not very sure if the table is correct for the very low (< 3) yield sillicon mines.

Tables do not format "nice" on some browsers. Such table is trivial to do with any spreadsheet. And yes, the low silicons are wrong. You could add the yield 0 row too for all of those how just low to drop mines on roids with wrong mineral.

And basically, the table can be found from this forum, although there are no 2* or 5* multiplications for medium and large, for obvious reasons. That table has been around for 2 years.

And I think that there may be roids over 100 yield too. Merroc's spoiling asteroid spreadsheet will tell you.
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goodguydarkguy
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Hello,
I`ve readed this thread and its a great mess , why mess ? because someone ( who has the nerve and time) should do a table like this :

Yield | Size x | Can support (units)|
x 0 x | x M x | 0 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
x 0 x | x L x | 0 xxxxxxxxxxxxxx|
1

2

etc
(ignore the "x" its just design )

The Unit meaning 2 for M and 5 for L

I think that with this table you can really know if that asteroid can suport factories and how many

Example : you have 5 silicon mines of diffrent sizes and on difrent yield asteroids you look at the size of the mine lets say M you know the yield lets say 64 ( ) then you look at the unit number and see lets say 7.3 , go to the next mine that one has the unit number ( from the table ) 2.5 go to the next etc
Finally you add up the unit numbers and you get lets say 50.2 so youre mine(s) can support 50 units of facotories and gradually the stok will buid up
then you know that that complex can supply 25 crystal fabs ( if the mines are silicon mines ) and those 25 crystal fabs can support 25 M SPP or 10 L SPP or 5 XL SPP thats it

The only problem now is where do we find a guy that loves X3 that much ? GOOD luck to anyone who tryes to make this table

jlehtone
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goodguydarkguy wrote:I`ve readed this thread and its a great mess , why mess ? because someone ( who has the nerve and time) should do a table like this :
I admit that things could be presented more clearly.

However, a table of the kind you suggested is totally useless, since if one does add up mine productions, then one can either calculate or uses a spreadsheet, where the use of equations is way more efficient than a table.

Besides, such table takes about five minutes to make, and has already been added into the first post.

tanaka_k
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Well its definitely a useful guide overall.

goodguydarkguy
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Hello,
I`ve done some research and I (like moast of you I think) found a great thing called "complex calculator" ...great stuff there has it all + the yield / size/ unit table I was needing .
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