X3:TC - Best shield combinations?

[xiriod]

I was browsing through the ships, and I noticed that some ships have 4 x 1 GJ for example while another has 2 x 2 GJ. And so forth.

Are there much difference in recharge time on these setups?

[Carlo the Curious]

Generally, the smaller the shield the faster it recharges - so 4x1 will recharge quicker than 2x2 (assuming the shield generators are sufficient).

Last time I took a look in the types file they were:
1Mj: 30.3 seconds (33/sec)
5Mj: 60 seconds (83/sec)
25Mj: 102 seconds (245/sec)
200Mj: 132 seconds (1515/sec)
1Gj: 498 seconds (2008/sec)
2Gj: 1002 seconds (1996/sec)

But, I haven't checked them in game, and there may be modifiers on top of that - e.g. in X3R 10Gj shields recharged much faster than the listed rate.

[xiriod]

Generally, the smaller the shield the faster it recharges - so 4x1 will recharge quicker than 2x2 (assuming the shield generators are sufficient).

Last time I took a look in the types file they were:
1Mj: 30.3 seconds (33/sec)
5Mj: 60 seconds (83/sec)
25Mj: 102 seconds (245/sec)
200Mj: 132 seconds (1515/sec)
1Gj: 498 seconds (2008/sec)
2Gj: 1002 seconds (1996/sec)

But, I haven't checked them in game, and there may be modifiers on top of that - e.g. in X3R 10Gj shields recharged much faster than the listed rate.

Tell me about it I had the Phoenix in X3:R and I was practically invincible. And on the odd chance I had to jump out I could jump back in again in 10 minutes. Really. It was too powerful, really

[juanitierno]

if i remember correctly from a discussion in X3 reunion smaller shields regenerate slightly more megajoules per second than bigger ones. so 5x25 is better than 1x125. Im not sure if this holds true in X3TC.

There was an exception, i believe it was the 9GJ shield some teladi monstrosity could carry, which recharged scarily fast.

[jlehtone]

if i remember correctly from a discussion in X3 reunion smaller shields regenerate slightly more megajoules per second than bigger ones. so 5x25 is better than 1x125. Im not sure if this holds true in X3TC.

If you do look at Carlo's numbers (which may lack a constant), you see that 25 MJ recharges in 102 seconds. That requires a 245 kW shield generator.

The 200 MJ requires a 1515 kW generator, and recharges in 132 seconds.
But a 2 MW generator could recharge eight 25 MJ shields in parallel, in 102 seconds, ie quicker than the single 200 MJ shield.

But comparisons like this are only between different ships (like X3R Eclipse vs LX) where one has many small slots and another has less, but bigger shields. If you can mount 4*2GJ, you probably do mount them.

[-Villain-]

size does matter. don't worries about the stats, 2gig shields take a monster of a pounding before they fail. My python has 3x2gig's so it's back of the line, fighter mop up, while my terran osaka's with 6 x2gig shielding go where ever they damn well please.
The python picks through the wreakage with goblins for spare coinage.

[Coruskane]

surely the shield capacity in joules, divided by the shield generator in watts, gives the seconds to fully recharge from zero? Unless, of course, it uses some form of non-linear function (logarithmic for a capacitor etc).

edit: and the phoenix has taken a big hit now, to the extent that it is no more than a mediocre cap now.

[jlehtone]

surely the shield capacity in joules, divided by the shield generator in watts, gives the seconds to fully recharge from zero?

Shield capacity (joules) divided by the recharge rate of the shield (watts) (possibly including some efficiency multiplier) yields the seconds. The shield generator of the ship is the limiting factor only if it is less than the combined shield recharge rates of the shields that attempt to recharge simultaneously.

[NeverSnake]

if i remember correctly from a discussion in X3 reunion smaller shields regenerate slightly more megajoules per second than bigger ones. so 5x25 is better than 1x125. Im not sure if this holds true in X3TC.

If you do look at Carlo's numbers (which may lack a constant), you see that 25 MJ recharges in 102 seconds. That requires a 245 kW shield generator.

The 200 MJ requires a 1515 kW generator, and recharges in 132 seconds.
But a 2 MW generator could recharge eight 25 MJ shields in parallel, in 102 seconds, ie quicker than the single 200 MJ shield.

But comparisons like this are only between different ships (like X3R Eclipse vs LX) where one has many small slots and another has less, but bigger shields. If you can mount 4*2GJ, you probably do mount them.

But as far as I understand it these are the maximum speeds they can recharge, if you've got a ship that mounts a 200mj shield but has a less than 1515kW generator your recharge time will be slower than the figures listed.

(I think it's linear, so a 757.5kW generator will take twice as long)

The Teladi Phoenix had such a fast recharging shield in X3R because it was so massive, far bigger than any other M2 as well as most stations. So although it could take a lot of pounding it couldn't dodge much either.

It's still the same size in TC but no longer has a unique shield. Does anyone know if it's still got a super-fast recharge or whether it just uses the standard 2GJ recharge this time round?

[Demolisher 2]

The Teladi Phoenix had such a fast recharging shield in X3R because it was so massive, far bigger than any other M2 as well as most stations. So although it could take a lot of pounding it couldn't dodge much either.

It's still the same size in TC but no longer has a unique shield. Does anyone know if it's still got a super-fast recharge or whether it just uses the standard 2GJ recharge this time round?

I think the Phoenix actually recharges slower than the other destroyers now, because it's shield systems requires five 2KW generators and the Phoenix only has 8KW, so it recharges at 0.8x the speed of the others. Or so I would think.

[Coruskane]

yes, it does seems to take an awful long time for the Phoenix to recharge. Combined with its lesser ability to manouvre, especially in AI hands, it is second-rate

[jlehtone]

But as far as I understand it these are the maximum speeds they can recharge, if you've got a ship that mounts a 200mj shield but has a less than 1515kW generator your recharge time will be slower than the figures listed.

(I think it's linear, so a 757.5kW generator will take twice as long)

We did work this out for X3R back in early Summer 2006. It is lamost, but not quite linear. The trick is that shields are treated as discreet entities. Lets take an example (omitting some details):

A ship with 4 shields, max rate of 200kW each, and a 500kW generator. All shields drop to 0%.
* Shields No1 and No2 start recharging at max rate, and No3 with remaining 100kW. Shields seem to recharge at 500kW, linearly.
* When No1 and No2 are full, No3 is at 50%.
* Now No3 can recharge at full rate, and No4 will too. Shields seem to recharge at 400kW, linearly.
* When No3 is full, the No4 will finish up at 200kW, linearly.
* Total time required: twice the time of one shield.

The Teladi Phoenix had such a fast recharging shield in X3R because it was so massive, far bigger than any other M2 as well as most stations. So although it could take a lot of pounding it couldn't dodge much either.

I recall making a test in X3R: I modified the 1 GJ shield to have larger capacity and measured the recharge. When the capacity exceeded about 4.5GJ for one shield, the recharge rate jumped up. Conclusion: hard-coded added a recharge multiplier if the shield's capacity was large, and the 10 GJ shields was "very large".

I think the Phoenix actually recharges slower than the other destroyers now, because it's shield systems requires five 2KW generators and the Phoenix only has 8KW, so it recharges at 0.8x the speed of the others.

Thus, if the X3R recharging model is used, others recharge to full in 2GJ shield's time, while Phoenix gets only to 8GJ, ie 80%, and needs another 2GJ's time to reach the 100%.

[Mouseco]

Words cannot describe how confused I am ....

But ... what happens to the calculations when you fit a smaller shield in the last slot ?

so 4x 25mj, goes to 3x 25 and 1x5mj ....

NPC seems to do this alot ... not sure if it actually helps them!

[pjknibbs]

so 4x 25mj, goes to 3x 25 and 1x5mj ....

NPC seems to do this alot ... not sure if it actually helps them!

There might be a benefit to doing that, actually--the small shield would mean the ship's shields more rapidly got to the point where two shields had to recharge in parallel, which increases the recharge rate.

[jlehtone]

I think the benefit can only occur if the generator cannot recharge maximum shields in parallel, and even then the chance is small. But the readers are free to select from ship stats the cases that may show this, and then proof the case one way or another.

NPC ships are equipped by the Almighty Random Number Generator. More for "immersion" reasons than "advantage".

[MegaJohnny]

I don't get it, I though shields recharged as fast as the ship's shield recharge stat.

[pjknibbs]

I don't get it, I though shields recharged as fast as the ship's shield recharge stat.

You thought wrong. A shield has a maximum recharge rate which it cannot exceed, so if your ship's shield generator has enough juice to recharge all the installed shields at their maximum rate, its shields will recharge as fast as is possible; extra power on the generator will make no difference.

[Andaius]

quite right. As was mentioned earlier you could if you wanted give your self lesser shields if you want if you work out that your generator isn't able to handle a full shield load out. but for anything m6 and lower I don't think there is a problem.

[Psi Diver X]

Interesting information about shields, I didn't know they worked this way. Thanks guys!


Still, I feel X3 is more or less about burst damage then sustained damage. Usually anytime I've been blown up was because I was blinded side by a hail of bullets, or the kamikaze ship that decided to ram you.

[jimhsu77479]

(Yes I realize I rezzed a post from the dead)

Still, I feel X3 is more or less about burst damage then sustained damage. Usually anytime I've been blown up was because I was blinded side by a hail of bullets, or the kamikaze ship that decided to ram you.

Exactly, that's why I considerably upped shield recharge in my game. Your probability of dying to a burst of PPC fire is about the same; however, you no longer have to wait hours for your shields on your M2 to recharge before another battle.