Freezing in Patch 1.3

Hotpot · Post by **Hotpot** » Tue, 27. Dec 05, 18:38

Rostam. The save I sent you requires Bubbafat's missing ships models with cockpits mod. Sorry about that. Understand if you don't want the hassle with trying it.

yoshida · Post by **yoshida** » Tue, 27. Dec 05, 19:27

Hotpot wrote:I also have a reproduceable freeze in my savegame. I don't know how to post on here though as I've never used my webspace or anything like that.

try issuing command none to all of your UT. There is a known problem dealing with cargo.

details:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 21#1364821

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Tue, 27. Dec 05, 20:29

Atraxo wrote:I read somewhere that reinstalling Windows Media Player helped solve the problem. I did, and also installed thelatest NVIDIA drivers.

It solved the problem for me. Don't know if it helps...

I tried the savegame... Sorry... What I proposed did not help. It still crashed... <grumble>

Malakie · Post by **Malakie** » Tue, 27. Dec 05, 21:56

Marijn wrote:It must be something in the trading/scripting engine. I don't have any UT's and my game has the sporadic freeze+sound loop as well.

Good job @ rostam for getting this recreatable freeze. it should help the dev team to get this sorted. I hope they post to atleast acknowledge they've seen these files.

Hi, I have posted a number of other messages in the past few weeks and tried to tell others I think it is the script/bbs engine causing it.

I was able to figure out that it seems to occur most often AFTER you place your first station.

I can reproduce it this way.. Start a new game. Fly around doing battle etc etc. When able buy and ore mine and a silicon mine. Fly to ore belt and find the two high cap asteroids near the southern part of ore belt.. should be an Ore rock at 51 and a silicon rock at 64 right next to each other. Place your mines, set them up etc.

Now dock in the trading station. Save the game if not using autosave. Try reading the BBS. Most times bang locks right there. But once in a while it continues to play. Now play for a bit longer. Eventually the game will lock tight usually sooner than later.

Now try to load your last save game. It will load, you start to hear the nice voice saying 'welcome to... welcome to..... welcome to... welcome to....'

Hit keyboard in frustration and hope the task manager comes up behind the locked screen so that you can 'guess' the keys to end process for X3 so you do not have to hit the power button.

BTW for everyone. Before playing X3 on WinXP open task manager and make sure the applications tab is the selected one. Why? because when X3 locks you can hit ctrl, alt, del then TAB once then the 'E' key once then the left arrow key once then 'E' key again and it will kill the X3 game process and let you get back to desktop without reboot. I learned this routine because I lock so often.

Malakie

guardian alpha · Post by **guardian alpha** » Tue, 27. Dec 05, 22:01

I learned this routine because I lock so often.

Try, instead, pressing ctrl+alt+del when it freezes up, wait 3 seconds, and then press alt+tab. That should switch the window focus completely away from the x3.exe process and onto the task manager screen since it can't overwrite the graphical data X3. Could end up being easier than keystroke memorization

ragamer · Post by **ragamer** » Tue, 27. Dec 05, 22:57

I got it... After investigating a lot (and having some crazy luck) I got a consistent pattern on the freezes (at least in my case), so I'm gonna post it here to try to help. It's rather complicate so I will explain first what's the sequence of events and then HOW I CAN TRIGGER A FREEZE:

SEQUENCE OF IN-GAME EVENTS

1) I load a savegame docked to a station.

2) I undock the station.

3) Without accelerating I turn fast to face a distant Jumpgate (JG from now on)

4) Using System View I target the JG at 75KM (Just to keep track of the distance to it)

5) I accelerate to 200m/s (Maxed Mamba Raider) and activate my x10 SETA.

6) At 28KM the JG model changes to a one with more detail.

7) At 25KM a new ship enters the system through that gate, it's a Split Courier Harrier.

HOW TO TRIGGER THE FREEZE:

A) The load is the first loading since X3 started (9/10 tries end in a freeze):

Step 3: you notice the first "microfreeze", when you turn, the game stops a moment to load the new textures. In this case a nearby asteroid and the far JG model.

Step 7: You see the JG model change but you never see the new ship entering the system, the game frozes just before showing it. The rare 1/10 times when you see it, is after a considerable freeze (half a second or so).

B) The load is NOT the first loading since X3 started (1/10 tries end in a freeze):

Step 3: you barely notice any slowdown this time.

Step 7: 1/10 attemps you get a total freeze, the rest you experiment a "microfreeze" when the harrier appears in the system.

C) The load is the first loading since X3 started, but you deactivate x10 SETA BEFORE STEP 7 (3/10 tries end in a freeze)

Step 3: you notice a microfreeze here.

Step 7: 3/10 times you get a freeze, the rest you experiment a microfreeze when the harrier appears.

My specs:

OS: WXP SP2 DIRECTX9c
GPU: NVIDIA Geforce 6800 LE (81.95 Drivers)
MOBO: EQS M60P9-ALF (Intel 915P+ICH6 Chipset)
CPU: INTEL P4 3.4 Ghz (LGA775 socket)
RAM: 2 x 512Mb DDR2 533
SOUND: MOBO Integrated Realtek AC'97 Audio (5.10.0.5870 Drivers)

This one was a tough one to trace, but after realizing it I remembered all the times I got a microfreeze when approaching a Gate and a new ship appeared... Seems like in some cases the loading of new textures into the graphic cards is able to hang my X3.

This more than 40 load tests were done in Patriarch's Retreat, trying to exit it through the S gate... The loading protocol is to be sure the card's cache is not used, that's why after spending some time IN-GAME, some textures are "cached" thus the loading time is decreased and the chances of a freeze are less... Of course, on normal gameplay, you can't control which textures are cached and which ones not... And of course you need to be looking at a JG at the precise moment a ship has entered

I have the saved game intact if it's needed or something

EDIT: Patriarch's Refuge don't exist

... It's Patriarch's Retreat

rostam · Post by **rostam** » Tue, 27. Dec 05, 23:51

Hotspot,

I posted your save game here:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rostam/X3/X10.sav

Unfortunatly I wont be able to test it since I don't have Bubbafat's missing ships models with cockpits mod but it would be good for the devs to test to see the problem is across the board and independent of the system.

Rostam

Sandalpocalypse · Post by **Sandalpocalypse** » Wed, 28. Dec 05, 08:34

Hmm... good eyes ragamer.

Hotpot · Post by **Hotpot** » Wed, 28. Dec 05, 11:49

Cheers Rostam. Let's hope they can sort this. I was having so much fun before the freezes started.

hansie · Post by **hansie** » Wed, 28. Dec 05, 21:11

shameless bump, or has there already been a reply?

rostam · Post by **rostam** » Thu, 29. Dec 05, 16:08

No Replies yet. I guess the devs are on holidays...

fchopin · Post by **fchopin** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 02:29

rostam wrote:No Replies yet. I guess the devs are on holidays...

Have you tried a new game without scripts to see if you still get a freeze?

Natan Magus · Post by **Natan Magus** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 05:54

It are the UTs.
I just send a Savefile to Egosoft, that will Freeze exactly at the same time after Loading.
If one disables the UTs it will not Freeze anymore.

Since i disabled all of my UTs i had no Freezes whatsoever, thats now for 48 hours straight using SETA for testing.
Enabling UTs will force my game to freeze sooner or later again. Usually within 1 hour in SETA Mode. It allways happens if a UT has to jump out of a System several times and gets confused, what he is carrying in his cargobay.

cooldoud · Post by **cooldoud** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 11:49

Natan Magus wrote:It are the UTs.
I just send a Savefile to Egosoft, that will Freeze exactly at the same time after Loading.
If one disables the UTs it will not Freeze anymore.

Since i disabled all of my UTs i had no Freezes whatsoever, thats now for 48 hours straight using SETA for testing.
Enabling UTs will force my game to freeze sooner or later again. Usually within 1 hour in SETA Mode. It allways happens if a UT has to jump out of a System several times and gets confused, what he is carrying in his cargobay.

Then we're having several issues... I have not a single UT and still have the freezes

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 13:38

I've also had freezes. And have three UT's. Sometimes the game freezes while the UT's are definately not the issue. Just trundling off to a destination. No cargo.

Natan Magus · Post by **Natan Magus** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 13:58

Well i was able to isolate TWO issues:

Codecs and MK3-Traders.

Once i got my installation-files sorted out with *modified* Codecs and Sound-Files of the game, once i disabled my MK3-Traders, my game ran fine 72 hours straight in SETA Mode.

I then enabled my MK3 Traders and had the first Freeze within an hour, again using SETA.

Egosoft's Codec implementation is really a little "choppy" to say the least, but once you've sorted that out and still get freezes, you'll know it's because of your MK3 traders.

(If you have not MK3 Traders running and you sorted out Codec issues by

- installing WMP 10,
- SDK-Upgrades,
- reinstalling Directx 9.0c in the December version and
- installed the Ace Codec Pack

and are still encountering Freezes, then you are running a 3rd party script or you suffer from faulty hardware or overclocking. Btw, these upgrades will help you as well with framerate issues when firing certain weapons...)

Hotpot · Post by **Hotpot** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 16:31

I did all the codecs and WMP 10 etc. No problem codecs left and game runs smooth. But the freezes are still there; in fact I am stuck with a consistent freeze. I've removed 3rd party scripts and disabled (command none) all five of my UT traders and the freeze is still there.
It may be linked to scripts since patch 1.3 but disabling your UT's does not stop the freezes for everyone.

Natan Magus · Post by **Natan Magus** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 16:49

Hotpot wrote:It may be linked to scripts since patch 1.3 but disabling your UT's does not stop the freezes for everyone.

Thats correct. UTs are in 95% though, in my experience, the case for freezing. The remaining 5% freezes are caused by 3rd party scripts, faulty hardware or hardware configurations (overclocking) and Codec issues.

It could be, that you have had a script running and the effects of that script still affects your game. (E.g. you used an economy script. Simply by disabling it the impacts of that script will not be removed instantly, it takes time.)

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Fri, 30. Dec 05, 20:08

I played rostams savegame. And it froze when I went through the gate and then hit SETA. When I stayed in the sector and waited for the freeze (no SETA) nothing happened...

Only after waiting for two minutes, and then heading through the gate and hitting SETA, it froze...

I guess that ragamer has a point. It could be the graphic detail that causes the game to freeze at the point where the detail switches to a higher level. Still waiting for a reproducable freeze in my game. Seems random to me. Still.

EDIT: Btw I have no additional scripts running. Did Reinstall Windows Media Player 10, and no 'red' codecs in madboris's program. Only three UT's.

rostam · Post by **rostam** » Sat, 31. Dec 05, 01:52

For me personally UT causes the freeze. I disabled all my UTs and I don't have any freezing problems. As soon as I turn them back on the freezing starts again. Obviously this is only one of the causes of the freeze and one that can be replicated Use the 2nd save file and should freeze within 30 sec no matter where you are only way to fix it is to disable the UT5 command to non...

I am sure as per discussions in many other posts there are other reasons that could cause crash or freezing.

CBJ sent the save files to the devs so hopefuly we hear back from them soon.

Rostam

Freezing in Patch 1.3

argh