Mods an burst damage

[Neofit]

Hello,

Can someone please help me figure out what is going on with the figures in the two following screenshots?

https://i.postimg.cc/FHzTcssK/M4-High-output.png

https://i.postimg.cc/TwV0GKQt/M4-Low-output.png

In the first one, I am adding a +42.76% mod for a total of 1553 MW of burst output.
In the second, I am adding a +48.62% for a total of 1520 MW.

Does cooling or reload affect burst damage? I understood it being the first volley.

Also, do we have reload on energy weapons?

[Raptor34]

Reload from what I understand is basically improving your fire rate.

[Neofit]

Reload from what I understand is basically improving your fire rate.

So it should not have an impact on burst damage, should it?

[Raptor34]

Reload from what I understand is basically improving your fire rate.

So it should not have an impact on burst damage, should it?

Isn't burst damage within a period of time? So higher fire rate means more damage. I think.

[Neofit]

Isn't burst damage within a period of time? So higher fire rate means more damage. I think.

What would "Sustained damage" mean then? As I understand it "Burst" means the first volley, sustained means "over time", taking into account the dead time between reloads, cooling, etc., DPS in other words.

So right now I've stopped until I figure this out . Not sure which one is better, because maybe the burst and sustained calculations at the bottom of the screenshots are wrong, and when one actually hits it's another picture?

[Raptor34]

Isn't burst damage within a period of time? So higher fire rate means more damage. I think.

What would "Sustained damage" mean then? As I understand it "Burst" means the first volley, sustained means "over time", taking into account the dead time between reloads, cooling, etc., DPS in other words.

So right now I've stopped until I figure this out . Not sure which one is better, because maybe the burst and sustained calculations at the bottom of the screenshots are wrong, and when one actually hits it's another picture?

Hope someone can help about those terms, I vaguely remember reading an explanation somewhere.
But anyway, you can ignore the calculations, how it works iirc is that damage+ is obvious, and more reload is better because you get higher ROF there, although it also comes at a cost of higher heat, because each shot generates heat. So for main guns it really comes down to how accurate you are with those bonuses, the one with better reload means you can waste heat more easily if you suck at aiming or its an inaccurate gun, especially with the cooling penalties. But if you're just doing flybys then you have time to cooldown. But frankly I'll take the one with both greens as the damage difference is minimal and you can just not hold down the trigger.
While for turrets which basically ignore heat you then want the one with both damage and reload bonuses. The cooling penalties is like a dump stat.

[CBJ]

What would "Sustained damage" mean then? As I understand it "Burst" means the first volley, sustained means "over time", taking into account the dead time between reloads, cooling, etc., DPS in other words.

Yes, that is essentially what it means. But to be more precise, burst is not just about DPS during the first volley; it's about DPS during any volley, i.e. between but not including periods of time spent reloading, cooling etc. Sustained damage is the average DPS over time including those periods.

[Neofit]

Yes, that is essentially what it means. But to be more precise, burst is not just about DPS during the first volley; it's about DPS during any volley, i.e. between but not including periods of time spent reloading, cooling etc. Sustained damage is the average DPS over time including those periods.

Thanks. Although the notion of "volley" becomes imprecise when one starts modding. For instance I have this Nemesis, its original 5 pulse guns are all the same and all shoot at the same time, then pause, then another volley of 5, etc. But now that I've modded 4 of them only the first shot is a volley, after that, since every gun has its own reload time, it becomes a flow of shots with each firing as soon as it is reloaded, so it's just sustained past the first volley I guess.

If I am tuning for boom & zoom tactics, I should just go with what the "calculator" is showing me at the bottom as "Burst output", right?

[Raptor34]

Yes, that is essentially what it means. But to be more precise, burst is not just about DPS during the first volley; it's about DPS during any volley, i.e. between but not including periods of time spent reloading, cooling etc. Sustained damage is the average DPS over time including those periods.

Thanks. Although the notion of "volley" becomes imprecise when one starts modding. For instance I have this Nemesis, its original 5 pulse guns are all the same and all shoot at the same time, then pause, then another volley of 5, etc. But now that I've modded 4 of them only the first shot is a volley, after that, since every gun has its own reload time, it becomes a flow of shots with each firing as soon as it is reloaded, so it's just sustained past the first volley I guess.

If I am tuning for boom & zoom tactics, I should just go with what the "calculator" is showing me at the bottom as "Burst output", right?

In such a case I would assume that logically they would just calc each guns volley individually and total them up, but the entire thing can be, uninformative at times.

[CBJ]

Of course with weapon mods it's always going to be approximate. Another way to think of the two is as "peak" and "average". So yes, if you're looking at how much damage you can do in a quick strike, burst is what you're interested in.

In such a case I would assume that logically they would just calc each guns volley individually and total them up

Yes, for the total burst figure we sum the burst figures for all weapons.

[Neofit]

Yes, that is essentially what it means. But to be more precise, burst is not just about DPS during the first volley; it's about DPS during any volley, i.e. between but not including periods of time spent reloading, cooling etc. Sustained damage is the average DPS over time including those periods.

Wait, now that I come to think of it, if Burst is the overall damage without downtime on reloading or cooling, then I should have a higher Burst value when adding a +48% mod, not lower than when adding a +42% + better reload and cooling.

[EGO_Aut]

Yes, that is essentially what it means. But to be more precise, burst is not just about DPS during the first volley; it's about DPS during any volley, i.e. between but not including periods of time spent reloading, cooling etc. Sustained damage is the average DPS over time including those periods.

Wait, now that I come to think of it, if Burst is the overall damage without downtime on reloading or cooling, then I should have a higher Burst value when adding a +48% mod, not lower than when adding a +42% + better reload and cooling.

But you have a -9.26% reload, and i think thats bad.

Red=bad Green=good

[Neofit]

But you have a -9.26% reload, and i think thats bad.

Red=bad Green=good

Yes, if we were talking about sustained damage, but according to

burst is not just about DPS during the first volley; it's about DPS during any volley, i.e. between but not including periods of time spent reloading, cooling etc. Sustained damage is the average DPS over time including those periods.

burst damage does not take into reload into account, so it should be +dmg vs +dmg between the two mods.

[CBJ]

Checking the code again, both Burst and Sustained take into account reload rate, but only the Sustained takes into account heating. Sorry for any confusion.

[Raptor34]

But you have a -9.26% reload, and i think thats bad.

Red=bad Green=good

Yes, if we were talking about sustained damage, but according to

burst is not just about DPS during the first volley; it's about DPS during any volley, i.e. between but not including periods of time spent reloading, cooling etc. Sustained damage is the average DPS over time including those periods.

burst damage does not take into reload into account, so it should be +dmg vs +dmg between the two mods.

That is making the assumption that you'll only deal one burst in each attack run, while depending on the weapon, it might instead be 2 vs. 3 bursts.
The best suggestion I can give you is to just try it out, stay in space and fire and get a feel for it. Which one is better might soon be obvious.

[pref]

burst damage does not take into reload into account, so it should be +dmg vs +dmg between the two mods.

Afaik reload mod property also affects time spent between each bullet within a single salvo.
It's rate of fire in practice both affecting burst and sustained dps. Naming is a bit confusing.

There is a reload rate, reload time and ammo reload property for projectiles. How the increase from mods is exactly applied i don't know.

[Neofit]

Checking the code again, both Burst and Sustained take into account reload rate, but only the Sustained takes into account heating. Sorry for any confusion.

Thanks!

[j.harshaw]

There is a reload rate, reload time and ammo reload property for projectiles. How the increase from mods is exactly applied i don't know.

Directly modifies reload rate by the stated percentage.

Hesitated to respond because worried that I might add to the confusion, but from the screenshots:

• Weapon Damage applies a modifier to damage per bullet. If the weapon fires a beam, directly modifies burst DPS.
• Weapon Cooling applies a modifier to the weapon's cooling rate.
• Weapon Reload applies a modifier to the reload rate per bullet, effectively the weapon's rate of fire.

Burst DPS and Sustained DPS both describe rates of applying damage. Burst DPS does not account for heat and cooling while Sustained DPS does.

[pref]

Thanks for clarification!

• Weapon Reload applies a modifier to the reload rate per bullet, effectively the weapon's rate of fire.

Does this mean ammo reload is unaffected by mods' reload property?
Rate of fire might be a better word, i originally expected reload to only affect ammo reload property based on it's name. For people without knowledge of game files it might sound even less meaningful (though it seems i only got misled by that ).

[KopiG]

Checking the code again, both Burst and Sustained take into account reload rate, but only the Sustained takes into account heating. Sorry for any confusion.

It is so strange that a Rattlesnake with good Exceptional weapon mods have worse sustained AND burst dmg compared to a exceptionally crafted Basic weapon mod. Exceptional weapon mods cant really compete with +47% and +90% reload basic weapon mods (even if heat is like -28%). Balance is pretty bad tbh in this department and does not encourage to get better weapon mods.