General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Bill Huntington
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Post by Bill Huntington » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 04:08

I was sure of the answer until a month ago. I've had Ion Shard weapons in the Hype because they were available early. I've found them good weapons. Now I have the chance to change to CIGs, and I'm not sure. The CIGs knock the target around which disrupts their own fire on you. That can be an advantage especially when facing Plasma Burst Generators. But I'm okay with the smooth killing power of the ISR.

Can someone explain the math of the two weapons, so that the killing power of each is compared with the same measure? I've gotten lost when it seemed like two different measures are being used. They are both listed with Max Damage of 5k. The ISR shoots 230 shots/min while the CIG shoots 75/min. Yet they seem close to the same in effect. So is Max Damage the same over a period of time, or does it refer to each shot?
Bill in S.F., enjoying the game

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Post by pjknibbs » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 08:50

Where are you seeing this Max Damage figure? If it's in the in-game encyclopaedia then those values are already listed as damage per *second*, not damage per *shot*, so rate of fire is largely irrelevant. As I recall, the damage CIG and ISR do is pretty much in the same ballpark--personally I prefer ISR because they DON'T knock the enemy ship around, though; sure, that means they can't fire back at you, but it also means that a lot of your own fire will miss because the ship has been knocked to somewhere different than the targeting computer was expecting it to be.

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Post by ancienthighway » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 09:06

The CIG does 95% of the shield damage and 88% of the hull damage based on damages by the ISR, but it does it at 64% of the energy usage. If Weapons energy is a factor, the CIG is better. On the other hand the ISR is cheaper and smaller, albeit not by much, than the CIG.

The CIG does bounce small targets around, which can be a problem when they are pushed out of range.

The CIG does more damage per hit at a cost of higher energy usage per hit, which could lead to some shorter lifespans of enemy ships. For OOS combat, the CIG is more effective. IS combat, it's pretty much a wash on damage and doesn't need to be a worry unless you have a problem with weapons energy.

If it makes any difference to you, the CIG can be used by all M6s and M7s and the ISR can be used by all except Argon/OTAS M6s and M7s, and the Yaki M6.

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Post by Honved » Thu, 23. Jul 15, 15:38

I marginally prefer the ISR for my own use, because the slightly faster projectile gives me more hits against agile targets, and because second shots with the CIG against M3s often miss when the target gets thrown clear.

I greatly prefer CIG for OOS ships because of the higher damage "per shot" (RoF doesn't matter in TC for OOS combat).

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Post by hisazul » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 08:06

Honved wrote:I marginally prefer the ISR for my own use, because the slightly faster projectile gives me more hits against agile targets, and because second shots with the CIG against M3s often miss when the target gets thrown clear.

I greatly prefer CIG for OOS ships because of the higher damage "per shot" (RoF doesn't matter in TC for OOS combat).
Pretty much. CIG doesn't work on AI controlled ships because it either throws target around and they spend half an hour trying to kill a nova or it doesn't do enough damage. On player ships same problem with either bouncing enemies or it just doesn't cut it for more troublesome targets which require you to move a lot... slow projectiles and sub-par RoF. Energy isn't an issue for me either way.

On OOS ships... if it's a choice between those two then it will always be CIG.

With ISR I can afford to jump a Q with escorts and an I with some K/J around with nothing but my single trusty Hyperion. Why can I afford to do that? Because I can can do boost drive-by. And I'm one of those people whose booster uses weapon energy first then shield energy and then energy cells... with CIG I would probably just just quit half an hour later due to lack of progress.

But at the end of the day, it is still a matter of preferences. I LOVE terran weapons... I LOVE PSP. I got used to it... I can't do anywhere nearly as well with PPC. Then again... ships are a major factor as well here.
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Post by Triaxx2 » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 13:15

I personally find that unless I'm trying to cause a bail, CIG is less than useful. The bouncing effect of the CIG causes the AI to change direction, which keeps them from fleeing.

On the other hand, the ISR has a massive fire rate, and fast moving projectiles, so it's much better at anti-fighter.
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Sparky Sparkycorp
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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Fri, 24. Jul 15, 13:50

As with others here, my preference is ISR for the faster shots and non-bouncing. Overall, I find that compensates for higher energy, improves my effectiveness against small fighters, and it is nice not to see M3s/traders bounce all over the shop.

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Post by Jimmy C » Mon, 27. Jul 15, 14:56

In my experience, CIGs are more effective than ISRs against ships larger than fighters if you're in an M6. The reason is most M6s that can use CIGs can afford to fire 6 to 8 of them indefinitely, unlike ISRs. As a result, you get continuous maximum damage on the target as long as you can keep a bead on it.
On the other hand, M6s with tiny cargobays, like the Heavy Dragon and Heavy Nemesis, need all the space savings they can get, so should be fitted with ISRs rather than CIGs under most circumstances.

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Post by daniel001 » Mon, 27. Jul 15, 21:46

CIG projectiles are pretty big.
Thats a hudge advantage.
You can hit M3 with it with little practice, even M4 and M5 with a bit of luck.

ISR miss a lot more shots, especially in turrets.

The Energydrain of the ISR can be nice, but if only ever found it interesting versus Xenon Q where you can keep them from ever firing another shot again until they are destroyed.[/b]

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Post by Cursed Ghost » Thu, 6. Aug 15, 00:38

which of these is best depends on the target

ISRs are better for fighters where there higher energy use isn't a factor but for bigger targets that don't suffer the concussion effect then CIGs are better because CIGs uses less energy so a ship like the Hyperion can fire 8 of them all day long without a problem but against the same target with ISRs you will hardly scratch there shields before running out of puff also despite what it says in game CIGs are actually more powerful then ISRs and here is a little math to prove it


Damage per Second (Hull): 3200 X 60 sec = 192000 Damage per min
Damage per Second (Shield): 9800 X 60 sec = 588000 Damage per min

75 shots per min / 60 sec = 1.25 shots per sec
307 Energy Cost per Second / 1.25 shots per sec = 245.6 Energy Cost per shot

Energy Cost per Shot: 246 MJ X ROF: 75 shots per min = 18450 energy cost per minute

Damage per min (Hull): 192000 / energy cost per minute 18450 = 10.40650407
Damage per min (Shield): 588000 / energy cost per minute 18450 = 31.8699187


Damage per Second (Hull): 3700 X 60 sec = 222000 Damage per min
Damage per Second (Shield): 10200 X 60 sec = 612000 Damage per min

230 shots per minute / 60 sec = 3.83 shots per sec
476 Energy Cost per Second / 3.83 shots per sec = 124.28198433420365535248041775457 Energy Cost per shot

Energy Cost per Shot: 124 MJ X ROF: 230 shots per min = 28520 energy cost per minute

Damage per min (Hull): 222000 / energy cost per minute 28520 = 7.78401122
Damage per min (Shield): 612000 / energy cost per minute 28520 = 21.45862553

as you can see even though ISRs are technically the more powerful weapon due to the massive energy drain CIGs actually end up doing more damage to both hull and shields in the long run due to there higher efficiency even though each individual shot is weaker and its rate of fire is less of course this assumes a 100% hit rate against a big slow target for both weapons

as a general rule though you are probably better with a bank of HEPTs as the energy use is a fraction of the other 2 the bullet speed is in-between ISRs and CIGs and the damage is only marginally less than CIGs and ISRs so the only reason I can think of to use either of the other 2 over HEPTs is for the extra range assuming you are the one flying the ship that is if the ship is OSS and under AI control CIGs are best if the ship is IS and under AI control ISR are better due to the better accuracy

TBH Ego really need to remove CIGs and ISRs and add some proper corvette level weapons

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