Conflicts System (XDownloads + Nexus Mods)

[SS_T]

Hi,

Soon I should be merging XDownloads with nexus mods and my task is to make a very small document on how to make a conflict system.

We are not making the mod manager compatible with the x games due to the complexity (unless cycrow wants to have a go at it), so my idea was to make nexus automatically create a list like this.
So when a user uploads their mod they select what text file, page ect their mod is using. It then gets added to the list, this way a modder just has to look at the list to check if their slot has been taken or not.

As far as I'm aware we want a system where by people with uploaded files can go to a form that allows them to show what item/ware/ship/whatever slots they've used in their mod. This information will then be shown on the mod page, that will also flag other mods that will conflict with the current mod based on the conflict information provided by the author. And finally, a page will be setup to show all slot usage across all files. Is that right?

If you could break it down for us, so that a coder could look at it and know what he needs to do (i.e. what form fields he needs, the ranges for the slots, etc.) it will make it much easier for us to work on.

I need some help on this and for you to have your say.

I will still be working on mod hosting but less coding this way.


SS_T

[Killjaeden]

Kinda important would be if a script uses a special shipentry/ware/station that is added just for that mod.
E.g. a mod adds the deathstar, and references it in a special script that comes with the mod

and then of course all the t-files that are mentioned. A problem i see with this though is that you have to make an incredibly long list if your mod is pretty big. I don't think i would want to check all scripts and entries in XTC for example - that would be a nightmare.

[SS_T]

We are not looking into creating scripts that automatically read the files of a mod at this time, what we want to do is what I started on xdownloads is for the user to input the information. However it will be more advanced as it will show if another mod is conflicting with it.

I will get more time on editing the downloads when it is transferred over to nexus so I this can only be a positive because I hated that a lot of the downloads didn't have any information,even the authors name.

At this point I don't think there is a lot we can do with all the conflicts, we just have to focus on the areas we can. Mainly focusing on the list we already have.

But things like TShips, TWhatever need to be installed by a manager* that can merge them. We will not be doing that so it looks like we will be sticking with cycrows for now.

I think we should be focusing on these:

• Wares*
• Object Tasks*
• Ship Command Slots
  • Navigation Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Combat Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Trade Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Special Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Piracy Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Custom Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • General Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Turret Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Station Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Ship Additional Commands (Range 16 - 63)
• Custom Command (Range 1400 - 2000 and 6000+*)
• Wing Command Slots
  • Navigation Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Combat Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Trade Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Special Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Piracy Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Custom Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • General Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Turret Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Station Commands (Range 16 - 63)
  • Ship Additional Commands (Range 16 - 63)
• Custom Wing Commands (Range 1000+)*
• Custom Wing Addition Ship Commands*
• Text File ID*
• Text Page ID*
• Log File ID*
• Text ID's on Page 17*
• Gamestart ID's *

* I don't know anything to do with wares is there a limited number of spaces for the wares?, if so is this all that is left:

Code: Select all

28;0;0;0;0;87;15063;0;105;1;5;0;105;0;1043;0;SS_WARE_SW_X3TC_3; 


28;0;0;0;0;88;15073;0;105;1;5;0;105;0;1043;0;SS_WARE_SW_X3TC_4; 


28;0;0;0;0;89;15083;0;105;1;5;0;105;0;1043;0;SS_WARE_SW_X3TC_5; 


28;0;0;0;0;90;15093;0;105;1;5;0;105;0;1043;0;SS_WARE_SW_X3TC_6; 

Also does there need to be a price for each of them or should it be opitional?

* We are not getting into the NMM (Nexus Mod Manager) for the x games like I said previously.


* What are the ranges of object tasks?, currently there are:

Code: Select all

Ship task 40: Lucike - CAG, CLS, EST, Prospector, Security and Rescue Service 
Ship task 41: Lucike - CAG, CLS, EST, Prospector 
Ship task 42: Lucike - Travel Drive 
Ship task 43: Lucike - MEFOS Weapon System 
Ship task 44: Lucike - MEFOS Weapon System 
Ship task 45: Lucike - Security and Rescue Service 
Ship task 46--50: Lucike - CODEA Weapon System 
Ship/Station tasks 890--900: Serial Kicked - Pirate Guild 3 
Ship task 7037: Gazz - BIER Scanner 
Ship task 7046: Gazz - MARS Fire Control (also higher tasks like 117046, all ending on ...7046) 
Ship task 9050--9070: Shimrod, Smart Turrets 

Station task 7741: S9ilent - Station Financial Manager

* Does anyone know a limit, is there one?

* Again is there a limit or is any one likely to use these.

* Is anyone actually going to use these?

* What are the ranges?
* Is their any need to the page ID's

* Don't know anything about LOG files what ranges are there.

* What is the lower limit allowed and can you use say 600000+ above the plugin mangers? is there a limit?

* And finally what is the range?

[SS_T]

Sorry another post but this I need more information on this as I don't know much about this.

Ware Compatibility

Should you be able to add more than one to a single mod page?

On some of them there is a price, should I include this on nexus?

EDIT: Do we need all the number's eg
28;0;0;0;0;62;5783;0;56;1;1;0;56;-100000;0;0;SS_WARE_SW_NEW4;

can't we just use
SS_WARE_SW_NEW4;

instead?

[jack775544]

One question, when you migrate to Nexus will all the links for the downloads change?

I think you should add a price to the ware slots as the only way to change them is by using mods.

Will EMP wares be supported or just the vanilla spare wares?

[[Nexus]Dark0ne]

The idea is to get as much feedback as to what your ideal conflict system on a website would entail. What would you like to see? How would you like to see it? Where would you like to see it? How would you like to control it?

We're seriously planning to code this, and sooner rather than later, so if you've got any feedback on the topic please share it as your input will help to shape the feature.

[jack775544]

Personally I think that if you could implement a system similar similar to the Library, which can tell modders and users alike what files and commands are used where. Also, you could add compatability notes based on each mods page so people can tell incompatble mods apart easily

[SS_T]

One question, when you migrate to Nexus will all the links for the downloads change?

Unfortunately that's one problem

Will EMP wares be supported or just the vanilla spare wares?

See I don't know much about wares, does EMP add more ware slots?

[Jack08]

The idea is to get as much feedback as to what your ideal conflict system on a website would entail. What would you like to see? How would you like to see it? Where would you like to see it? How would you like to control it?

We're seriously planning to code this, and sooner rather than later, so if you've got any feedback on the topic please share it as your input will help to shape the feature.

I think having it tell you on the mods page what resources it uses, and list the conflicts for these resources (if they have any) - combine with a page that displays all the uses (and free!) resources from all mods and by who.(perhaps cache for a few hours this page if server performance is an issue)

There shouldn't be any restrictions on how many resources a mod/script can claim usage of. It is a conflict notification system after all, its not meant to prevent or control - the madders(* modders, amazing typo... lol) are meant to do that, the system shouldn't prevent you from claiming usage of resource A just because someone else has it. If someone makes a troll mod and claims usage of 50 resources i think it would be clearly obvious

One question, when you migrate to Nexus will all the links for the downloads change?

Unfortunately that's one problem

Couldn't you compile a database of the new URL's from Nexus mods and then have the old X-Downloads links redirect?

* Does anyone know a limit, is there one?

i believe the highest available task id is 65535 its either that or the limit of a signed 32bit integer minus 1

[SS_T]

Couldn't you compile a database of the new URL's from Nexus mods and then have the old X-Downloads links redirect?

Maybe I will look into it

[SS_T]

Conflict system document I wrote up:
http://www.x1tp.com/Conflict%20System.pdf

[jack775544]

Conflict system document I wrote up:
http://www.x1tp.com/Conflict%20System.pdf

Looks good so far. Just so you know the only way you can change a price of a ware is to either mod the game or use a feature built into the plugin manager. So for the cost edit box just make a note that it is for advanced users only.

Basically EMP adds lots of extra ware slots to the end of TWareT for easy use by modders.
To get info on EMP wares you should ask Cycrow as a feature of the plugin manager is that it automatically installs EMP, so he will know more about the topic than me.

[apricotslice]

Regarding Page ID - The lowest available number is 7000, below that is egosoft use. You can add into those pages, but you cant add new pages. No practical maximum seems to be recorded yet, and 5 digit page numbers are now common.

Regarding Text file ID - Its a 4 digit number. Convention seems to reserve all numbers below 1000 for egosoft. Most modder numbers are between 7000 and 9999, effectively reserving both the text file number and the same page number. There are some now between 1000 and 7000, but these cant use the same page numbers.

I recommend that before a new mod is accepted, the author has to click yes on a question to determine that they have checked the list in your link and submitted the mod for inclusion. Thats the only way to make sure that modders using your system dont start duplicating numbers used here. If you only store what is used there, then duplication is almost inevitable. The primary list is here, modders should be referred here to check for unused resources, and then referred back here to register using them.

I'm not sure there is any control over log files. Convention would be to use the text file number for the log file name, but since log files are normally only used by the author for bug checking, the number really doesnt matter much. Only if the log file is being used to export data for an external program, would the number really matter, and the logical number to use is the text file number.

I've seen no limit on page 17 numbers. The main thing is to avoid a duplication. Most of the gaps in egosoft numbers have already been used.

Gamestart ID limits are not known, but I suspect its a 3 digit number, so 999 will be the maximum in that case. DONT use the gaps in the egosoft numbers (except the 120 range, some of which are used already), as egosoft may decide to use them at a later date. I recommend using 200+.

[Cycrow]

For Page ids, you can use any page between 1-9999. However, below 7000 alot are used by Egosoft (althou not all)

so its advised to use 7000+ so you dont have to worry about overriding any offical text.

if you know what ur doing you can find out if an id below 7000 is being used or not.

it should really be kept to 4 digits, as the game only uses the 4 digits for a page id.
if you look in the main text file you will notice alot of 6 digit page ids. The first 2 digits being the game id.

so you can have page ids of 7000, 307000, 357000, 387000, etc. And the game classes them all as the same page id.

i beleive the limit to any id would be just over 2billion (signed 32bit integer).

EMP is just an extension to TwareT adding lots of new wares into the file that can be used by modders so they dont have to add thier own TWareT file.
The PM generates it automatically by adding the entries on top of an existing TWareT file. So it can work with all mods and doesn't get effected by updates to TWareT files like the original EMP did. It'll always add them in the correct place, so if the TWareT is small than normal it add null entries before. If the TWareT file is bigger, it'll remove the first entries so the remaining are allways at the same ID.
So any installed mod that has EMP as well, the plugin manager will ignore its own (unless it detects an old version of EMP which it will then overright with a new one)

[Slugworld]

Dark0ne is evil, the nexus is evil. This is not just my opinion but many also share it. I have been a member here for years and would be gutted if his greedy site profited from everyones hard work. The Nexus Mod Manager (NMM) is allegedly spyware. IP addresses are shared on the site to the public. Please don't support it.

[apricotslice]

Dark0ne is evil, the nexus is evil. This is not just my opinion but many also share it. I have been a member here for years and would be gutted if his greedy site profited from everyones hard work.

In what way ?

Yours would be the first truely negative comment I've seen, and I'm wondering why.

[Aragon Speed]

Dark0ne is evil, the nexus is evil. This is not just my opinion but many also share it. I have been a member here for years and would be gutted if his greedy site profited from everyones hard work. The Nexus Mod Manager (NMM) is allegedly spyware. IP addresses are shared on the site to the public. Please don't support it.

I suggest you get your facts correct before you troll a thread.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/news/197/

In that news post Darkone explains exactly how the Nexus sites are run and the ethos behind it.

TBH a central download location for the X series would be a good thing imo, as currently apart from a few of the larger mods (like XTC) which have dedicated servers to host their mods, most modders and would be modders do not have an easy way to upload and manage their mods.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

GoogleDrive/GoogleCode/GoogleGroups anyone???

[Jack08]

GoogleDrive/GoogleCode/GoogleGroups anyone???

No. Not enough information, not structured for this use, no conflict management.

And on top of all that, its hard to use and get used to - and has a horrific interface.

And, its google.

[Ketraar]

There are a ton of hosting options for small to mid sized modifications, which are 99% of the global modifications out there. Only the bigger ones really need huge hosting plans but they also tend to get them anyway.

What bugs me the most tbh is the commercial aspect of Nexus, splitting members into premium or "normal" users and actually restrict access to it. This is against my view of modding where we make things easier/better for everyone for free. I can make a blind eye to donation buttons, even though I don't like those either, but a service that will require me to pay or suffer worse service for not paying, is not in the spirit of modding, at least not in the spirit I grew in to modding.

So while I say, sure go ahead and do what you want, its your site, I'm not going to host my stuff over there as long as not everyone has the same access to my stuff without paying.

MFG

Ketraar