[JCC revival] Improving my script for carriers management...

JumperBR · Post by **JumperBR** » Thu, 9. Apr 09, 23:26

Hi, months ago I´ve started development of a set of scripts to handle carriers management, I had released a beta version of it and unfortunately I got back to World of Warcraft and never touched it again until 2 weeks ago, since now Im back to the game I intend into releasing it with some new cool features, first, here is what IS done today:

- Ships have slots based on cargo and dock bay size.
- Each slot can be used to execute a function, the more that slot type the faster and more options you have at your disposal. Example: 1 fighter-production slot is able to produce M5 class, 2 fighter-production slots produce M4, 3 produce M3 or 1 shield slot produce 1mw shield, 2 shield slot produce 5mw, 3 shield slot produce 25mw and so on. Its like a upgrade, that way you can specialize your ship into producing fighters fully equiped.
- Player can define layouts for ships, a Carrier producing fighters will then produce that
- Multiple production queues, indepedent from each other.
- Missile can be replenished as well if the ship quantity of missiles is below the amount assigned to that layout (say, you assigned 100 banshees to your carrier, if your missiles fall below that number your carrie will then queue missiles for production)
- Docked fighters replenished from mother ship (works great with previous feature)
- Hotkeys for fast deployment of carrier, ordering all fighters to: kill all enemies, attack shield of player target, attack fighters only, retreat to carrier and carrier go home.
- Resources to produce are the same that a PHQ would require, but only credits may be used if player wishes, or a % between then, say 100k of resources and 100k of credits for a 200k total. (this needs to change, I will speak of this later)

Slots currently existent:
- Fighter
- Shield
- Laser
- Missile
- Energy cell production
- Software backup

Slots I intend to implement:
- Marine training: convert civilian into marines and they get trained (number of stars=number of slots)

Functions I intent to implement:
- Astronaut gathering for your Marine trainer ship (TP goes fine), if any astronaut is seem, this ship goes there and catch them.
- Capper ship, which work together with the above ship, transfering marines from one ship to another. (M6 would be better for this I guess)
- Scavenger ship: heres the big deal, imagine a ship that follows the player, the player caps ships or destroy them, the scavenger ship goes there and picks them, a mini-carrier would be ideal for this role, imagine that when this ship is full it goes back to main carrier and transport its cargo.
- Resources: instead of depending on credits or various resources I prefer to simplify this to just one resource, Hull Plating maybe?
- My goal is to make the player fully independent from other races with the mininum of cheat.

So, I need opinions, I dont have much time now, another time I will further elaborate this.

Also, sorry for my lack of response in the previous thread... I got carried away because of WoW.

cya

Targ Collective · Post by **Targ Collective** » Thu, 9. Apr 09, 23:57

Looks great. I have misgivings about the Carrier producing weapons, shielding and energy as CODEA already implements this in a balanced manner - TSs and TMs will find the Carrier and beam the goods directly into the cargo bay from player-owned complexes (much more balanced). After all, there's a difference between a carrier and a mothership!

In addition, using just credits oversimplfies the logistics behind ship construction. While I have always wanted additional shipbuilding facilities, at least for fighters, these should really use the same formulae the PHQ does. I understand if you filter by race, you could also restrict buildable ships (depending on the vessel) to those which belong in the fleet.

I'm not sure how a body would look at autostocking a carrier with building resources. This is more a wishlist item; however if that last could be implemented this would be a dream script.

Oh, and don't take this too negatively. As is this script would be ideal for a Homeworld mod.

The core concept is really very exciting, and I hope you stick with it this time. Please?

pelador · Post by **pelador** » Fri, 10. Apr 09, 00:37

Please dont feel worried about making ship/tech production resource heavy as it adds a more realistic control to the process, that imho adds to the process not takes away.

Remember X3 is about "Trade, Fight, Build, Think" so it is favourable to add appeal to all areas than just make it the most efficient weapon. As in balancing it against exisitng practice in the X-Verse gives more general appeal and opens up the impact as a result. So in that sense it has more added value from a development angle.

Having a mobile construction platform that is self-supplying is already sufficient advantage to make it attractive, so please don't make it totally unbalanced just to satisfy the power hungry immature players who want to wipe out the X-Verse in an afternoon.

Post by **BlackRain** » Fri, 10. Apr 09, 12:50

Well I like the idea of it only relying on Credits. I already set my PHQ to use only credits. I play the game in a RTS style so simpler is better.

Treelor · Post by **Treelor** » Fri, 10. Apr 09, 20:08

I think that you could get a compromise between the two. You could have it so that you still require Ore and Silicon along with the credits to produce the ships. It's not like you can build ships straight out of cash or something :v

JumperBR · Post by **JumperBR** » Fri, 10. Apr 09, 23:39

Targ,

Looks great. I have misgivings about the Carrier producing weapons, shielding and energy as CODEA already implements this in a balanced manner - TSs and TMs will find the Carrier and beam the goods directly into the cargo bay from player-owned complexes (much more balanced). After all, there's a difference between a carrier and a mothership!

Each player has it own playstyle... if you dont want that your carrier produce the weapons and shields just dont configure it to do so.
Carrier could be then set to produce the fighters and equip the items as they are supplied or just equip items based on layout.

In addition, using just credits oversimplfies the logistics behind ship construction. While I have always wanted additional shipbuilding facilities, at least for fighters, these should really use the same formulae the PHQ does. I understand if you filter by race, you could also restrict buildable ships (depending on the vessel) to those which belong in the fleet.

The problem of using the same resources is that the cargo bay from carriers is small, so, if you have a miscellaneous of resources to supply to your carrier you will end up with too many of a single resource...
maybe some sort of construction kit could solve it.
Building with Credits isnt realistic but you can "roleplay" it, imagining that resources are bought on background.
In the end, the player will do what he prefer as its fully configurable the resource/credits ratio.

Currently, you can only produce fighters that the player have (you add a ship to the layout library from one that you currently have) and then set the equipment which that ship will have.

I'm not sure how a body would look at autostocking a carrier with building resources. This is more a wishlist item; however if that last could be implemented this would be a dream script.

Thats what I intend it to do...

The core concept is really very exciting, and I hope you stick with it this time. Please?

Certainly, this time I will go til the end...

Pelador,

Please dont feel worried about making ship/tech production resource heavy as it adds a more realistic control to the process, that imho adds to the process not takes away.

Too many resources will end with a carrier filled with one or two resources... imagine a PHQ with a way smaller cargo hold.
A single resource (Some sort of Construction Kit?) is what I intend to implement.

Having a mobile construction platform that is self-supplying is already sufficient advantage to make it attractive, so please don't make it totally unbalanced just to satisfy the power hungry immature players who want to wipe out the X-Verse in an afternoon.

I will do my best... its hard to balance time and resources on manufacturing...

BlackRain,

I like the idea of it only relying on Credits. I already set my PHQ to use only credits. I play the game in a RTS style so simpler

Its already done. Player is able to select a resources/credits ratio, if you want only credits or only resource or 50% credits and 50% resources its all possible.

Treelor,

I think that you could get a compromise between the two. You could have it so that you still require Ore and Silicon along with the credits to produce the ships. It's not like you can build ships straight out of cash or something :v

I will focus on one resource for now...

Today I've implemented the Scavenger role, its a TM which takes a look at player sector, if he sees any wares or pilots flying he goes there and picks them, it also have some drones which are faster ships for faster container retrieval... its a cool thing to see, drones pick the cargo, return if full, unload and get back to more cargo picking.
The marine trainer is almost complete, it picks the civilians from the Scavenger ship and trains them into marines.
Next is the boarding ship, which will get the marines from the marine trainer ship and available via hotkeys for the player to call and board the ship.
I have to implement wings for the carrier as well... something like the CODEA or the ACC... (as normally, its a feature that the player doesnt have to utilize, he could still use other script to set the wings).

Targ Collective · Post by **Targ Collective** » Sat, 11. Apr 09, 01:23

The trouble with using a single artificial resource for ship construction is it will be difficult to balance. You'll need a new fab for 'Ship Parts' and the cost for each Ship Part in terms of resources would need to be perfectly divisible to the cost of each ship a carrier can produce. How d'you expect a new factory to use Credits in the production cycle? You're better off using the existing framework to save the hassle.

May I suggest you produce a version of the script with the ability to make weapons, shields and energy cells - as well as paying only credits - just removed? The functionality is great and everything, it's just that serious players like me want that hassle of supply lines. It makes it more 'real' if the infrastructure is an absolute necessity.

Also, if you get this right (perfectly balanced) then you can submit it to the Bonus Pack with a recommendation that Carrier cargo be expanded to allow for building material, which they were never designed for in the first place. They should have at least enough space to fill the slots with M3+ ship materials, and some spare for Energy and missiles.

Ships overfilling with resources can be solved with Lucike's waremanager script. Actually, in your shoes, I'd try to get Lucike involved in this! Perhaps you could integrate certain functions into your script that Lucike has perfected, to set persistent hard limits to the resources auto-ferried. (Hardcoded and based on ship type, or even cargo space...?)

Troubleshooter11 · Post by **Troubleshooter11** » Sat, 11. Apr 09, 02:55

pelador wrote: so please don't make it totally unbalanced just to satisfy the power hungry immature players who want to wipe out the X-Verse in an afternoon.

Aaaawh nuts.

On a serious note. Would it be possible to go in between? The very very basic components to build weapons / shields are "Ore" "Silicon" and "Energy". Am i right? Would it be possible to only require these 3 resources but in a amount way larger then the current PHQ, to compensate for only needing 3 insted of 9(-ish) resources.

I actually modded my PHQ to only require Ore, Silicon and Energy. But in massive amounts. I didnt wanna bother with Rasta Oil or Teladianihahalelelnunanium (its the proper spelling, i checked).

pelador · Post by **pelador** » Sat, 11. Apr 09, 03:01

Troubleshooter11 wrote:
pelador wrote: so please don't make it totally unbalanced just to satisfy the power hungry immature players who want to wipe out the X-Verse in an afternoon.

Aaaawh nuts.

Sorry Troubleshooter11,

I dont mind really, its all about fun at the end of the day, which no two people have the same view about. So happy for choice, but that adds extra development. So if one version has the RTS simplified approach to satisfy that style of gameplay is cool. Just need to cater for those who like the underlying form also.

But if the development needs to go in one direction or another it may preclude to who uses it which is fine, I'm simply offering my opinion and outlook. After all its only a game.

Though I wont formulate a choice on it now without allowing the creation process to happen.

(Blah, blah, jeez I need a beer, where did I leave that fridge?)

Thrandisher · Post by **Thrandisher** » Sat, 11. Apr 09, 09:43

All i can say is great! The other day i was tryign to reset up a new install and one of the scripts i wanted to check out was this one.

Kinnison · Post by **Kinnison** » Sat, 11. Apr 09, 14:43

Just a thought: as carriers have little cargo capacity and are primarily combat craft, why not make the production vessels TLs? Lots of space, and a retrofit to factory ship seems a 'reasonable' progression in the X-verse. You could couple factory ships with carriers in self-sustaining battle groups, allowing the complex supply chains that some people want without much danger of overfilling with production materials.

Gazz · Post by **Gazz** » Sat, 11. Apr 09, 15:43

JumperBR wrote:Example: 1 fighter-production slot is able to produce M5 class, 2 fighter-production slots produce M4

Take a look at LV's Carrier drone software before you end up writing the same thing. =)

Post by **BlackRain** » Sun, 12. Apr 09, 05:29

Actually this guy wrote his script before LV wrote the drone script and it isn't the same.

JumperBR · Post by **JumperBR** » Mon, 13. Apr 09, 04:44

BlackRain wrote:Actually this guy wrote his script before LV wrote the drone script and it isn't the same.

Thats right, actually I based myself on the griphon script from XTM, first I made a simple conversion then I started doing this set of script which gets bigger and bigger...

Update on my development, I created a new ship function: ship transporter, usage: select a ship and press a hotkey, a menu appears and you can then send that ship to a shipyard, to a safe sector, to deconstruct it or to another sector. Good to use after ships get capped, I also want to implement that when a TL finishes producing a fighter, the fighter is then sent to the carrier wherever it is.

I have to draw a picture on the various ship functions that I implemented or am implementing...
Ship relationships so far:
Scavenger drones picks floating cargo to the scavenger ship
Scavevenger picks floating cargo and astronaut
Cargo tender picks the cargo from scavengers
Marine trainer picks astronaut from scavenger
Marine trainer trains civilians into astronaut (not instant but I need to balance cost here)
Boarding ship pick astronaut from Marine Trainer (and are called by the user with a keypress)
Cargo tender delivers cargo to the Warehouse/Ship Building ship (a TL)

This warehouse produces the fighters, fighters are then delivered to the carrier.
Carrier assigns fighters to wings.
The warehouse ship also deconstructs what you send to it.

The part in red is what is left to implement, all the rest is mostly done. I just have some issues into recovering marines... somehow TPs cant catch them via script, only the player ship...

Im still undecided on which resource to use... Im not confortable in requiring 10 resources as the PHQ does.
Either way, the balance between resources and credits will be up to the player to choice.

I could use some help with ship behaviours... Im running out of ideas...
Scout ships is another thing to add...

JumperBR · Post by **JumperBR** » Mon, 13. Apr 09, 14:10

A quick update... I will take a look at CODEA and see how it handles wings... maybe I could connect both scripts so my script feeds the CODEA wings with the ships it requires... Theres no need to reinvent the wheel, right?

I also need to change the name... the scope of the script has changed a lot since the beginning, JCC means "Jumper Carrier Commands"... maybe, something with fleet management...

Troubleshooter11 · Post by **Troubleshooter11** » Mon, 13. Apr 09, 17:32

JumperBR wrote:A quick update... I will take a look at CODEA and see how it handles wings... maybe I could connect both scripts so my script feeds the CODEA wings with the ships it requires... Theres no need to reinvent the wheel, right?

I also need to change the name... the scope of the script has changed a lot since the beginning, JCC means "Jumper Carrier Commands"... maybe, something with fleet management...

Perhaps you can split the two scripts some way?

- One script purely for the production of fighters and goods onboard carriers.
- One expanded script with your fleet management features.

Could be handy for people only looking for a way to auto-produce fully kitted fighters onboard their carrier(s). Like me.

People who want more then that could install the fully featured 'deluxe' version of your script.

JumperBR · Post by **JumperBR** » Mon, 13. Apr 09, 19:15

I dont think thats necessary... Im doing it in a way that everything is optional...
you can have ships collecting wares, training marines, boarding targets, producing goods/ships, transporting ships, or not...

The player can simply install the script and configure the carrier to produce the fighters and equip them without touching the other areas that the script implements, using credits or resources (again, configured by the user).

With ship modules and functions(roles) defined by the user, its up to the player to choose how he wants to play.

Troubleshooter11 · Post by **Troubleshooter11** » Mon, 13. Apr 09, 23:18

JumperBR wrote:I dont think thats necessary... Im doing it in a way that everything is optional...
you can have ships collecting wares, training marines, boarding targets, producing goods/ships, transporting ships, or not...

The player can simply install the script and configure the carrier to produce the fighters and equip them without touching the other areas that the script implements, using credits or resources (again, configured by the user).

With ship modules and functions(roles) defined by the user, its up to the player to choose how he wants to play.

Alright then.

Targ Collective · Post by **Targ Collective** » Mon, 13. Apr 09, 23:55

You're putting a lot of work into this JumperBR, and I reckon seeing if your script can link into CODEA would be a great move. Perhaps contact Lucike? The worst that can happen is disinterest.

On a rather more serious note, it would be great if you could get this signed. You'd have to cut out the balance-breaking issues and make a 'light' version of the real script. Egosoft can't sign scripts which bend the rules, you see, even though ten resources is a little heavy.

JumperBR · Post by **JumperBR** » Thu, 16. Apr 09, 18:25

Well, I´ve been working very hard this week on this script, I hope that until sunday I can release it with some screenshots and how to setup the ships to work properly.

I finished the Mobile HQ ship function, now you can set a ship (preferably a TL) to serve as ship and goods manufacturing.

I changed the way the carrier handled fighters... now there are wings (similar to the ones CODEA uses) with ship type and quantity, so the MobileHQ can look and produce what is necessary. I still need to test the integration with CODEA (I guess I forgot something somewhere). Im not changing anything on CODEA btw.

todo list:
* simplify resources list, today I will work on this, ships will only require Ore (as I assume/simplify will be the main source of other components)
* disassembly of ships/goods: what is not being used in any template will be converted into Ore (togleable)

Quick question: how much time would you think its ok for a M3+(a Eclipse, lets say) to be produced? 15 minutes? 30? 60? 5?
And a M4 and M5?

egosoft.com

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[JCC revival] Improving my script for carriers management...

[JCC revival] Improving my script for carriers management...

Re: [JCC revival] Improving my script for carriers management...