Tages servers down

[andmie]

I'm having this problem as well Perhaps it's like the 2009 Zune bug?

Like most here I recognise this isn't Egosoft's problem - but it still means I want to claim a refund for the product. I bought it on Steam to play during my holiday, and if I can't play until work starts, I'll just wait until the DVD version is on the shelves at a similar price

The support ticket I sent to Steam (https://support.steampowered.com):

I recently purchased the X3 Terran Conflict and X3 Reunion package. You have received payment for those games. I am now finding it impossible to access the TAGES servers which are needed to activate the product. Obviously my internet connection is functioning normally, as I am writing this to you, but I have attempted to access the TAGES servers for some time according to the instructions provided with no success (webpage: http://tpamaint.tagesprotection.com/register/ul.htm). The license agreement, to the best of my knowledge (please point me to the correct section if I missed it) did not stipulate that you could delay in making the product available to me after receiving payment to the opportune time that your servers happened to be active. I find this completely unacceptable. I am aware of your "no-refunds" policy - this is however my notice to you of the problem I am having, and my notice that I will submit a complaint with the Office of Fair Trading unless I receive a refund. To deny refunds is an unfair business practice in itself if a vital component in the activation of online products is not available at the time payment is charged. My account name is ___, the products in question are X3 Terran Conflict and X3 Reunion, purchase confirmation number ___. Please advise me of your decision to provide a refund or not at your earliest convenience.

.. and a letter to the OFT if it doesn't work.
Online purchases and "activations" are all fun and convenience until the servers don't exist any more

[rapidsquirrel]

Usually it takes a bit for me to lose faith in a company, but from some reason this has pushed me over the edge. Strongly worded emails have been sent, and I'm never going to buy something from Egosoft again.

It's off to stardocks for me. At least they treat their customers with respect and don't treat them all like pirates.

[andmie]

There was a reply from someone from Egosoft who stated that it was the distributor who wanted to use Tages. In any case the boxed version does not need online activation. I am happy to have copy protection, so long as it's offline. Egosoft also has in the past removed the copy protection after a year or so which means that the 5 install limit isn't an issue either. I'm still happy with them for making so great games, and will buy the DVD version

Complain to the distributor instead. And avoid Steam - because their policy is to refuse to give refunds, and permanently ban all of the games on all your accounts if you credit card chargeback.

[Gothsheep]

Hi! I'm Gothsheep. Some of you might remember me.


You know, Egosoft...I've defended you against a lot of things, but this strikes me as incredibly bad form. You make your copy protection require online activation before the software can be run, and then you rely on what is obviously an undependable server for it? Can you imagine if EA did that? If you tried to get online to activate Spore, and the server just didn't work?

I'm aware that your defense is, "Well, we don't run TAGES, it's their problem."

Well no. No it isn't, because I didn't buy anything from TAGES. I bought a game from you, and you bought their service. You picked them, they're undependable, and that's on you.

I'm seriously disappointed.

[sidraket]

Its egosofts fault for using a publisher that uses DRM.

Simple as that.

its easy to self-publish with digital distribution these days, so theres no real need to do this anyway. Its not like putting boxes out there will attract a bunch of new customers, people who like this kind of game already know about it.

[Gothsheep]

I'm not faulting Egosoft's use of DRM. I'm not faulting them for having a publisher that insists on it.

However, there ARE options besides TAGES, and obviously TAGES isn't terribly dependable, as I'm sitting here writing angry forum posts and occasionally trying to launch TC instead of actually PLAYING the damned thing.

[RooksBailey]

I only learned about the game a few days ago and purchased it today. I was all hyped to play it until this mess happened.

I understand Egosoft wants to protect their IP and that some companies like hefty DRM schemes. Fine. I buy a lot of games, many with various DRM systems, and never had a problem.

This is my first and it has me miffed. And I'm pretty fortunate, I've only been unable to play for one day...not the three others have been stymied for.

Okay, everybody gets one mistake and I trust this one will be water under the bridge soon. But I do want to make one thing clear:

Assuming I like this game WHEN I GET TO PLAY IT (someday ), I still will not purchase any additional titles from Ego if it utilizes Tages. If you want some other DRM scheme, fine. But not Tages.

Never again, for me.

[sidraket]

I'm not faulting Egosoft's use of DRM. I'm not faulting them for having a publisher that insists on it.

However, there ARE options besides TAGES, and obviously TAGES isn't terribly dependable, as I'm sitting here writing angry forum posts and occasionally trying to launch TC instead of actually PLAYING the damned thing.

The only thing that any DRM does, anywhere, ever, is cause problems like this. It does not effect anything else in any way. yes this may be an extreem case in that its effectively stopping ANYONE who recently bought the game from playing, but all the DRMs end up having conflicts or messing up for some people. They are just hassle.

The only form of 'copy protection' that works, is if you have an online game that needs a unique CD key to connect and play it all the time. Thats it. All of these other schemes just cause problems like this.

Its not even an issue, you would have to be totally out of touch with the internet to think that DRM actually protects anything (other than perhaps the jobs of the people who make it).

Using DRM is simply useless and unacceptable.

Note that i would love for egosoft to design an online game that uses a cd key like i mentioned above=p But for anything else it is 100% pointless to include DRM unless you just want to frustrate your player base.

[Gothsheep]

Let's not turn this into a discussion of the merits of DRM in general. This is about one very specific problem with one very specific piece of software.

[sidraket]

There is no need to discuss DRM itself because its already decided - it has never done what its intended to do for more than a few days after something is released, and it causes all sorts of varied problems for different people.

The debate is over what possible reason its still around.

[MadDogUW]

I just want to play the game I legally purchased

[Carlo the Curious]

Reminder:

Note that discussion of other aspects of copy protection, such as personal opinions on the merits or otherwise of specific copy protection methods, is not welcome on the Egosoft forums because it inevitably ends up with someone justifying piracy or other illegal activities.

Any discussion of piracy will almost certainly result in this thread being locked.

[Gothsheep]

Well, mods tend to lock threads that start talking about DRM in general, and it would be unfortunate if that were to happen here.

As for Egosoft however. I don't know..I mean, I suppose on reflection I can't blame them for the problem itself, because they really had no control over it.

However, I would like to know that someone at Egosoft is making threatening phonecalls to TAGES on half-hour intervals to ensure this problem is resolved as fast as possible. Since really, I don't care about TAGES and Steam doesn't care about me, so it all falls at Egosoft's doorstep.

[nastilon]

My game still cannot register.

It's 11pm CST. Guess no one at Egosoft, no one at Deep Silver, and no one at Tages cares about keeping their customers happy.

[sidraket]

Thats great. Its not a personal opinion that DRM is ineffective at doing what its designed to do, thats fact anyone can see with a few minutes and some google searches. So im okay there.

I do suppose my endorsement of CD keys for online games is kind of like me saying "hay, this is a good system right here!". Im sorry for mentioning the one effective kind of copy protection on your forums.

If i wanted to justify piracy i would have pirated this game already, and not be here complaining on the forums, trying desperately to get egosoft to understand before things like this kill them off.

I am the fanbase. I am a paying customer, and i care about this game and the X series. I hope i don't get banned for caring.

egosoft mentioned that they will 'eventually' release a nocd patch at some point to remove the DRM.

While i can not be certain of this, it would imply that they have the capability to do this now.

Look at the situation here. For a couple days now EVERYONE who bought the game is UNABLE to play it.

Doesn't that sound like a real big problem? If this was a very popular game series and this was effecting thousands of people right now im sure they would be doing more than saying "just wait", like maybe releasing that nocd patch now, a critical patch to resolve a game breaking issue that everyone who bought the game after a certain date is experiencing.

But they are not doing that.

How does that sound to you?

There is no reason for the taboo here. The DRM bundled with the game is part of the complete package that someone buys. How is discussing it any different from perhaps discussing a rendering engine and why maybe they should have done something different? Its part of the game.

Egosoft, that DRM is PART OF YOUR SOFTWARE now, its not something just sitting to the side, its right in there with your own code, how does that make you feel? Getting its tentacles all over everything, oozing its unreasonable greedy appendages over it?

Your game is being used as a catalyst for the eventual death of the industry right now, all while lining the pockets of people who don't know or care about the game itself, or games at all.

Dont recoil or hide from the truth. You can make up rules and reasons to keep people from saying it within earshot, but that doesn't change what is and what is not.

its not too late. things can be changed, all can be forgiven. Release the nocd patch, make a press announcement condemning the evils of DRM and swearing them off permanently, stardock did it and was a great success, even apple has said DRM is a blight and they only use it because they have to. Get some attention, i guarantee you plenty of people who never heard about this game will buy it out of respect.

[Gothsheep]

egosoft mentioned that they will 'eventually' release a nocd patch at some point to remove the DRM.

While i can not be certain of this, it would imply that they have the capability to do this now.

Look at the situation here. For a couple days now EVERYONE who bought the game is UNABLE to play it.

Doesn't that sound like a real big problem? If this was a very popular game series and this was effecting thousands of people right now im sure they would be doing more than saying "just wait", like maybe releasing that nocd patch now, a critical patch to resolve a game breaking issue that everyone who bought the game after a certain date is experiencing.

He isn't wrong, you know.

Valve wouldn't put up with this. Neither would Bioware or Blizzard. Stardock wouldn't put up with this, nor would Gas Powered Games.

If this problem came up on Starcraft 2 or Sins of a Solar Empire, this problem would be fixed inside of a day.

But here we are at, what, Day 3 of this, I hear?

Very unprofessional.

Now, maybe Egosoft's hands are tied at this juncture. I don't know. I'm not there, I certainly can't speak for what their options are. However, here's my problem. I paid for a game. I downloaded it legally, and installed it. It's currently sitting on my harddrive, fully functional. But I can't use it.

And the best you can say is some hand-waving that it's that guy's problem? At the end of the day, that guy isn't suffering for it. Egosoft still got paid. TAGES still got paid. The customer is the one who is getting burned here.

When World of Warcraft got heavily overloaded servers that resulted in many people not getting to play their game for several days, do you know what Blizzard did? Aside from communicating very clearly what the problem was and how they were dealing with it on the forums, they gave every player credit for every day the problem existed. It wasn't much, but it was Blizzard's way of saying, "We understand that this was a problem for you, and we want to try and make it right."

I'm waiting to see what Egosoft does to make this right.

[rai2onsf]

I am also unable to authenticate this game, that I just purchased through Steam.

I checked Steam's forums, found this is affecting anyone who's purchased Terran Conflict or the new STALKER game in the past couple days.

Checked here, official response seems to be "not our fault, not our problem, better luck tomorrow."

Looked up Deepsilver, they don't seem to care enough about this game to even have a forum for it or mention it on their US site at all.

TAGES, of course, have no forum. And their "technical support" link is just instructions on how to register, not advice for what to do when registration fails. No news page, no server status page.

So, the devs don't care. The publisher don't care. The distributor don't care. The third party authenticator don't care. Minus the few bucks I'm out, somebody explain to me why I should care about this game or any other Egosoft, Deepsilver, or TAGES product again? Steam gets any pass at all only by dint of the fact that I've bought numerous games from numerous developers with various means of DRM in them and this is the first problem. So, their win/loss ratio is okay. This is my first Egosoft/Deepsilver/TAGES game. That win/loss ratio ain't so hot.

[Gothsheep]

Looked up Deepsilver, they don't seem to care enough about this game to even have a forum for it or mention it on their US site at all.

This I can explain.

Unless something has changed since I last looked into it, Deepsilver is -not- publishing the game in the US. In fact, X3: Terran Conflict has no US publisher at all. There is no official US release of this game, last time I looked at it. It was Steam, or order an English version directly from Egosoft.

[lutorm]

Awesome. Add me to the list of annoyed people who can't play. I just reinstalled the game on XP x64 and now I can't activate it. I have to say this activation system is extremely picky, I've already used up an activation because I got more ram. Now I need a new one for x64. In a few days I get a new video card, so I suppose that will require another activation too... and I'm about to get faster ram, too. Pretty soon I'm going to be out of my 5 activation codes, and that's without ever installing the game on any other machine. If they don't give out more codes, this is going to suck big time...

[Carlo the Curious]

You can request further activations if you need them.