Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'
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greypanther
- Posts: 7307
- Joined: Wed, 24. Nov 10, 20:54
Can I just thank you Scoob for trying the hated Syeam out in such a thorough way, it has been useful to read your posts, well some of them! 
Can I ask you when you have finnished testing to do a summary please? Even better if Egosoft would then place it as a sticky. I think it could become a very useful asset as XR comes out.
I have been testing Steam too, though no where nearly as thouroughly as you. I have at times got very frustrated, but have also been surprised too.
I am undecided what to do now.
Can I ask you when you have finnished testing to do a summary please? Even better if Egosoft would then place it as a sticky. I think it could become a very useful asset as XR comes out.
I have been testing Steam too, though no where nearly as thouroughly as you. I have at times got very frustrated, but have also been surprised too.
I am undecided what to do now.
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Scoob
- Posts: 11170
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
Hi greypanther,
Well I did originally start a new topic for my Steam discussion but it got merged here. I do hope to post a new topic at some point as I've been keeping notes of my experiences as well as tips etc. from others.
The reason I decided to test was because I was really against Steam solely based on my prior experience and things I've read here and elsewhere. I decided that as I have a reasonable internet connection I'd just try it for myself and see if the service had improved - really, it had to have improved or it'd not exist now, let alone be popular!
So, based on my efforts, a willingness to give it a go again, and the helpful posts and responses we've had here I'm Ok with Steam now. I'd still rather have a physical disc with no online requirements but if it ain't happening it ain't happening.
I've played around only for a short time, experienced some quirks, but I've also seen several of those fixed in a recent update to the client. I've downloaded demos in Online mode, played them in Offline mode, done backups, restores and played my (albeit very small) Steam collection on a different PC all together. With a little patience (vs. a simple DVD install) it really has been rather straight-forward.
Anyone can try what I've done, given some degree of internet connectivity, but there needs to be willing in the first place. I've largely changed my mind over Steam while doing this. It's not my first choice, given a choice, but in the event of there being NO choice, it seems workable at the very least without much effort.
I really think a Steam knowledge base type Sticky would be extremely useful to everyone, including those who are currently unsure about XR and Steam as I was. There's a wealth of experience on this forum, Egosoft should tap that to reassure potential customers that Steam isn't so bad. There may well be issues, but a good knowledge base can help eliminate many common ones for most users.
Now, I know there are Steam forums, but it's an Egosoft game we're buying and here may well be the first port of call for many.
Cheers,
Scoob.
Well I did originally start a new topic for my Steam discussion but it got merged here. I do hope to post a new topic at some point as I've been keeping notes of my experiences as well as tips etc. from others.
The reason I decided to test was because I was really against Steam solely based on my prior experience and things I've read here and elsewhere. I decided that as I have a reasonable internet connection I'd just try it for myself and see if the service had improved - really, it had to have improved or it'd not exist now, let alone be popular!
So, based on my efforts, a willingness to give it a go again, and the helpful posts and responses we've had here I'm Ok with Steam now. I'd still rather have a physical disc with no online requirements but if it ain't happening it ain't happening.
I've played around only for a short time, experienced some quirks, but I've also seen several of those fixed in a recent update to the client. I've downloaded demos in Online mode, played them in Offline mode, done backups, restores and played my (albeit very small) Steam collection on a different PC all together. With a little patience (vs. a simple DVD install) it really has been rather straight-forward.
Anyone can try what I've done, given some degree of internet connectivity, but there needs to be willing in the first place. I've largely changed my mind over Steam while doing this. It's not my first choice, given a choice, but in the event of there being NO choice, it seems workable at the very least without much effort.
I really think a Steam knowledge base type Sticky would be extremely useful to everyone, including those who are currently unsure about XR and Steam as I was. There's a wealth of experience on this forum, Egosoft should tap that to reassure potential customers that Steam isn't so bad. There may well be issues, but a good knowledge base can help eliminate many common ones for most users.
Now, I know there are Steam forums, but it's an Egosoft game we're buying and here may well be the first port of call for many.
Cheers,
Scoob.
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philjp
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri, 13. Feb 04, 19:31
@ Scoob
i liked your comment:
[So, based on my efforts, a willingness to give it a go again, and the helpful posts and responses we've had here I'm Ok with Steam now. I'd still rather have a physical disc with no online requirements but if it ain't happening it ain't happening.
]
this sums up my thoughts exactly. if steam is required i will use steam, if not then clearly i won't
[/quote]
i liked your comment:
[So, based on my efforts, a willingness to give it a go again, and the helpful posts and responses we've had here I'm Ok with Steam now. I'd still rather have a physical disc with no online requirements but if it ain't happening it ain't happening.
]
this sums up my thoughts exactly. if steam is required i will use steam, if not then clearly i won't
[/quote]
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Slashman
- Posts: 2525
- Joined: Tue, 12. Oct 10, 03:31
Well I have to say that its nice to see some reasonable experimentation from people who are/were opposed to Steam along with accurate and honest feedback.
If Egosoft is smart, they'll use this info to make the game better as a whole, regardless of if they choose Steamworks integration or not.
If Egosoft is smart, they'll use this info to make the game better as a whole, regardless of if they choose Steamworks integration or not.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.
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VincentTH
- Posts: 6636
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
OK, I ran some tests in Offline mode today after the problems I had yesterday.
Recall yesterday, Steam refused to run, instead insisting that I logon for update.
I brought the laptop home, and update both the client to v Oct 11, 2011, as well as DOW 40K Retribution, and X3TC. I then ran the Check Local cache, and turn all games to no-update, and then finally Switch to Offline mode.
Today, I bring the laptop to work, and start Steam with the Network plugged in.
Steam come up, asked me if I want to switch to online mode, and I answer no. It then starts in offline mode.
Test1: I run DOW 40K, it comes up, tells me that I cannot run Multiplayer due to offline mode, and that there are no achievements. I then was able to start the campaign.
Test2: I quit DOW, and start X3TC. The game says it cannot connect to Key server, and refused to run. X3TC is version 3.1.1
For the record, I have 5 games in my main account:
Alien Breed 2: Assault (uninstalled in order to test DiD save game disappearing)
Warhammer 40K: DOW2 Retribution, DOW II, and DOW II Chaos Rising
X3TC
screen shot
Recall yesterday, Steam refused to run, instead insisting that I logon for update.
I brought the laptop home, and update both the client to v Oct 11, 2011, as well as DOW 40K Retribution, and X3TC. I then ran the Check Local cache, and turn all games to no-update, and then finally Switch to Offline mode.
Today, I bring the laptop to work, and start Steam with the Network plugged in.
Steam come up, asked me if I want to switch to online mode, and I answer no. It then starts in offline mode.
Test1: I run DOW 40K, it comes up, tells me that I cannot run Multiplayer due to offline mode, and that there are no achievements. I then was able to start the campaign.
Test2: I quit DOW, and start X3TC. The game says it cannot connect to Key server, and refused to run. X3TC is version 3.1.1
For the record, I have 5 games in my main account:
Alien Breed 2: Assault (uninstalled in order to test DiD save game disappearing)
Warhammer 40K: DOW2 Retribution, DOW II, and DOW II Chaos Rising
X3TC
screen shot
Last edited by VincentTH on Wed, 19. Oct 11, 20:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Scoob
- Posts: 11170
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
Hi VincentTH,
My understanding was that "no Update" mode for a given game only appies until you next try to run it. It's really a "I'm not playing this at the moment, so don't bother to update" mode.
Your DOW no multiplayer in offline mode makes sense, odd issue with TC there though!
I might register my copy of TC with Steam and test it out - I currently just install the DVD version from a backup and then patch it up. Would be an interesting test. I can do that right, register my pure DVD copy bought ages ago with Steam? Not even thought about it before...
Scoob.
My understanding was that "no Update" mode for a given game only appies until you next try to run it. It's really a "I'm not playing this at the moment, so don't bother to update" mode.
Your DOW no multiplayer in offline mode makes sense, odd issue with TC there though!
I might register my copy of TC with Steam and test it out - I currently just install the DVD version from a backup and then patch it up. Would be an interesting test. I can do that right, register my pure DVD copy bought ages ago with Steam? Not even thought about it before...
Scoob.
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VincentTH
- Posts: 6636
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
I am afraid you cannot reproduce it though. My case is special: I am behind corporate firewall (meaning I cannot change it). Steam is very confused, because on one hand, it can ping the Steam Server, but it cannot connect to it because Steam insists on using game ports for client-server connection, something that Corporate firewall blocks.Scoob wrote:Hi VincentTH,
My understanding was that "no Update" mode for a given game only appies until you next try to run it. It's really a "I'm not playing this at the moment, so don't bother to update" mode.
Your DOW no multiplayer in offline mode makes sense, odd issue with TC there though!
I might register my copy of TC with Steam and test it out - I currently just install the DVD version from a backup and then patch it up. Would be an interesting test. I can do that right, register my pure DVD copy bought ages ago with Steam? Not even thought about it before...
Scoob.
Also "No Update" was the recommendation from the Bethesda Skyrim forum, given a couple of pages earlier in this thread. I just followed that procedure yesterday at home, when I have Steam connection.
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epimannn
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Fri, 11. Dec 09, 08:37
I have steam from its launch with counter-strike 1.6. I'll summarise what i got through.
First year :
Steam network is an evolution of the anti-cheat system they had with half-life and CS1.5 .
Not much to do with it, register/buy your Valve product, auto update.
Network very slow due to heavy download ( some guys went through 1 month of downloading with HL 1 + all add-ons )
Steam was unstable enough to corrupt his own files... No windows problem related at this time. Lot of reinstallations and tricks found at this time and always working now.
2 version to download, the small one which download every files needed for steam to work and a bigger one with every files and up-to-date.
Second year :
Valve extend and transform steam as a publisher platform, success and DLC availables.
I dont recall steam specific DRM/copy protection at this time, it wasnt a bother to me.
I know that HL2 cames with encryption system for prepurchase.
Steam begin to be very stable, and CS1.6 whinning about patches that f****d the gameplay deeply.
Heard of security problems, privacy problems in some circumtances ( like hackers able to list your harddrive if you use some audio players while playing ) but repaired quickly. ( less than a month )
After that, the steam publishing service expanded and offer more social content and features.
Steam Indies, MMOs came after.
More stability, less security problems.
Concerning particular problems like ressources consumption, there was some early versions with heavy memory leak, heavy CPU usage.
There's so many additions to the initial release that i nearly forgot about those bad days of the first year release. It's now a natural way for me to play and buy games.
Funny trick from first year: when you experience some trouble with steam, just delete *.blob files, run online, and 50% of the problems are solved this way. ( just steam problems, not game related problems )
First year :
Steam network is an evolution of the anti-cheat system they had with half-life and CS1.5 .
Not much to do with it, register/buy your Valve product, auto update.
Network very slow due to heavy download ( some guys went through 1 month of downloading with HL 1 + all add-ons )
Steam was unstable enough to corrupt his own files... No windows problem related at this time. Lot of reinstallations and tricks found at this time and always working now.
2 version to download, the small one which download every files needed for steam to work and a bigger one with every files and up-to-date.
Second year :
Valve extend and transform steam as a publisher platform, success and DLC availables.
I dont recall steam specific DRM/copy protection at this time, it wasnt a bother to me.
I know that HL2 cames with encryption system for prepurchase.
Steam begin to be very stable, and CS1.6 whinning about patches that f****d the gameplay deeply.
Heard of security problems, privacy problems in some circumtances ( like hackers able to list your harddrive if you use some audio players while playing ) but repaired quickly. ( less than a month )
After that, the steam publishing service expanded and offer more social content and features.
Steam Indies, MMOs came after.
More stability, less security problems.
Concerning particular problems like ressources consumption, there was some early versions with heavy memory leak, heavy CPU usage.
There's so many additions to the initial release that i nearly forgot about those bad days of the first year release. It's now a natural way for me to play and buy games.
Funny trick from first year: when you experience some trouble with steam, just delete *.blob files, run online, and 50% of the problems are solved this way. ( just steam problems, not game related problems )
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Scoob
- Posts: 11170
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
Hi,
Ah, corporate firewall...it all becomes clear!
I too sit behind such an entity while at work, I'd not even dream of trying Steam there lol. We do have a visitors WiFi service (no core network access, just the net), you just need to grab a key from reception, which has traditionally been less restrictive as it's designed to let people access whatever they may need.
It's a shame really as I expect that for many of us our work internet is possibly the fastest we have access to.
epimannn: I was there during the first year, I bought HL2 and had...interesting times with it. Steam really is so much better now. When I tested restoring the demo backup up on one PC to another one, the "new PC" email came right away, no delays or anything. Quite impressed by that I was.
Cheers,
Scoob.
Ah, corporate firewall...it all becomes clear!
I too sit behind such an entity while at work, I'd not even dream of trying Steam there lol. We do have a visitors WiFi service (no core network access, just the net), you just need to grab a key from reception, which has traditionally been less restrictive as it's designed to let people access whatever they may need.
It's a shame really as I expect that for many of us our work internet is possibly the fastest we have access to.
epimannn: I was there during the first year, I bought HL2 and had...interesting times with it. Steam really is so much better now. When I tested restoring the demo backup up on one PC to another one, the "new PC" email came right away, no delays or anything. Quite impressed by that I was.
Cheers,
Scoob.
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Laden Swallow
- Posts: 572
- Joined: Fri, 29. Dec 06, 14:25
VincentTH, did you obtain the summer DLC for X3TC (assuming yes, based on games installed)?
I get the impression the reason why this breaks the DiD mode (which you also mention) is because it repeatedly re-downloads/re-authorises the DLC (IIRC), with each game start. If you can't access the interwebs, it can't verify that you are a rightful holder to the rights to access the DLC, and as such will not load the game...
But I could be wrong. I'm in the lucky (hopefully growing) minority of having stable, reasonably speedy internet connection with no (realistic) download limit/throttling.
I get the impression the reason why this breaks the DiD mode (which you also mention) is because it repeatedly re-downloads/re-authorises the DLC (IIRC), with each game start. If you can't access the interwebs, it can't verify that you are a rightful holder to the rights to access the DLC, and as such will not load the game...
But I could be wrong. I'm in the lucky (hopefully growing) minority of having stable, reasonably speedy internet connection with no (realistic) download limit/throttling.
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VincentTH
- Posts: 6636
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
Yes, in my main account, I did get the DLC. I also believe you are right, the DLC caused X3TC to try to verify ownership of the DLC, and thus the error message. Pretty stupid, I may say, since Steam is already in offline mode!!!!Laden Swallow wrote:VincentTH, did you obtain the summer DLC for X3TC (assuming yes, based on games installed)?
I get the impression the reason why this breaks the DiD mode (which you also mention) is because it repeatedly re-downloads/re-authorises the DLC (IIRC), with each game start. If you can't access the interwebs, it can't verify that you are a rightful holder to the rights to access the DLC, and as such will not load the game...
But I could be wrong. I'm in the lucky (hopefully growing) minority of having stable, reasonably speedy internet connection with no (realistic) download limit/throttling.
However, that is exactly what I am afraid about X Rebirth with its tightly-coupling with the Steamworks API, and the fact that Steam will act as a DRM for XR. It may not work all the time with Offline mode.
Last edited by VincentTH on Wed, 19. Oct 11, 21:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Observe
- Posts: 5326
- Joined: Fri, 30. Dec 05, 17:47
Yes, ditto on that Scoob!greypanther wrote:Can I just thank you Scoob for trying the hated Syeam out in such a thorough way, it has been useful to read your posts, well some of them!
Regardless of what position I may take regarding Steam (leaning against it), it is refreshing to see a "scientific" approach to the debate.
I was reading the official Skyrim post regarding "Skyrim and Steam".
Perhaps it would be useful for Bernd to make such a post so it's clear exactly which methodology Egosoft intends to employ. This might help remove some of the unknowns from the discussion.
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epimannn
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Fri, 11. Dec 09, 08:37
It's a steam window that show up on the screenshot, not X3TC error.
Steam related problem, not game related. First time i see this problem.
I'm not a DLC user so i dont know if this problem need connection or not and if there's a way to bypass this.
Perhaps there's options in the game properties about DLC... I dont have any so i cant tell you where or how to search ^^
Steam related problem, not game related. First time i see this problem.
I'm not a DLC user so i dont know if this problem need connection or not and if there's a way to bypass this.
Perhaps there's options in the game properties about DLC... I dont have any so i cant tell you where or how to search ^^
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VincentTH
- Posts: 6636
- Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
it only show up when I start X3TC. It works fine in offline mode for W40K:DOW2R!!!epimannn wrote:It's a steam window that show up on the screenshot, not X3TC error.
Steam related problem, not game related. First time i see this problem.
I'm not a DLC user so i dont know if this problem need connection or not and if there's a way to bypass this.
Perhaps there's options in the game properties about DLC... I dont have any so i cant tell you where or how to search ^^
May I point you to my petition to Steam Support for a way to disable the SunnyPlace-DLC . It goes without saying that it went unanswered.
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lostone1993
- Posts: 71
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VincentTH
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I have been a Steam user since X3TC came out, but I am not a fanboy and I still have my reservations about it, especially in light that I will be one of the few who have to play the game in Offline mode. I do like Steam the other half of the time when I am at home and have a stable BB connection.greypanther wrote:Thats not very promising is it?
The test I did today scares me that there is a real possibility that I cannot run XR in offline mode at all, despite what the other Steam fans have guaranteed. One thing we have to remember XR+Steamworks is very different than X3TC+Steam. X3TC (sans DLC) is a standalone game, whereas X3TC+DLC is similar to XR+Steamworks because Steam/Steamworks will act as a DRM, and will prevent offline mode from running.
The other mode employed by StarCraft 2 (and Blizzard.net) requires that I have to bring the laptop home once in a while in order to renew the CA (Certificate of Authorization). Basically, the authentication is good for a few weeks, until the game requires you to get online to re-authenticate. It may work for laptops, but will not work for Desktop, which the majority of the gamers have.
I read on Battlenet forums that there are a lot of US servicemen who bemoaned about that, since their ships may be offline for long period of time.
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Observe
- Posts: 5326
- Joined: Fri, 30. Dec 05, 17:47
From Steam forum (posted Aug 2011):
I know some navy guys who play X3. I wonder how they will fare with Rebirth Steam requirements?I am on an aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean. I can use a Department of Defense asset computer to access the internet and naval Exchange servers. I cannot connect my personal laptop to a secure department of defense network.
The next time I will have connectivity availible to me is in eight months.
And again, offline mode has worked for two weeks, and suddenly stopped working. I changed no settings on my computer or in the steam client.
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Honved
- Posts: 1252
- Joined: Sun, 20. Jun 10, 14:53
Steam = no sale.
I have no internet access to the floor with my gaming PC, and I'm not about to rewire the building at my own expense just to play it.
Besides, I prefer having the physical disc and box over a digital download. There have been download services in the past that went financially down the toilet, and anyone who bought games through them were out of luck when they suddenly couldn't access their accounts.
Bethesda Softworks' game Skyrim is due out next month, and will REQUIRE Steam for activation, even if you own the disc. It's been claimed that if you have any "issue" with Steam, they will cancel your account and not allow you to create another, EVEN IF YOU BUY ANOTHER COPY. Quite simply, I can't and won't play X Rebirth if it requires Steam.
Hopefully the X-games won't go down that same road where I cannot and will not follow.
I have no internet access to the floor with my gaming PC, and I'm not about to rewire the building at my own expense just to play it.
Besides, I prefer having the physical disc and box over a digital download. There have been download services in the past that went financially down the toilet, and anyone who bought games through them were out of luck when they suddenly couldn't access their accounts.
Bethesda Softworks' game Skyrim is due out next month, and will REQUIRE Steam for activation, even if you own the disc. It's been claimed that if you have any "issue" with Steam, they will cancel your account and not allow you to create another, EVEN IF YOU BUY ANOTHER COPY. Quite simply, I can't and won't play X Rebirth if it requires Steam.
Hopefully the X-games won't go down that same road where I cannot and will not follow.