Is this cheating? [Answered]

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Is it cheating?

Definitely cheating. Too easy.
61
72%
If the script is fair, so is this.
10
12%
Ya, that's totally fair.
1
1%
Totally friggin AWESOME!!
1
1%
It's Too Easy
12
14%
 
Total votes: 85

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Cadius
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Post by Cadius » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 13:24

The script is one thing but vanilla game also had plenty of exploitable holes, so I think the question you should ask yourself is "does it ruin the fun?". If yes, then maybe you should stop doing it, in a single player game like x3 I think self control is the best balance.

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Post by EFSEAR » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 14:31

I'm with the person who said it's all about self-control, and those that said if you yourself get your fun out of it. I've used this script myself but I only ever used it to capture khaak M3's, as I'm not sure if they bail or what, I've certainly never seen them bail otherwise. Never used it on M6's as in my mind they have better protected computers, and marines on-board who wouldn't take the switch laying down. Didn't know you couldn't use it on capitals ships even though I wouldn't bother, but that at least is balanced.
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MrLobster
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Post by MrLobster » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 16:28

Since X3 Reunion, I've installed the cheat package scripts from cycrow.

The only reason I do this is because the X-Game is still bugged.

Nine in every 10 Times I place a station, it wont connect to the existing hub.

Yes there are ways of doing it so you can get a better chance of succeeding, however surely by now it should be idiot proof. Plonk down the station, and hit connect. Why some stations have varying levels of connecting points i dont know.

But back to the point...

Everyone has their own idea on how the game should play, but I find that after a while I just give up with the sometime idiotic game dynamics (InSector AI for one) and just cheat my way through. But then after a while the game losses its coolness and gets left by the sideline.

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X2-Eliah
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Post by X2-Eliah » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 16:38

It doesn't connect because you are placing it too far, perhaps?

MatterStorm1
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Re:

Post by MatterStorm1 » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 18:16

Thanks guys! :D . I kind of like this in my game, it makes things a lot more convenient and I guess it doesn't ruin the game. I guess I'll keep the M6.

*Adding the script site to the main post
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Treelor
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Post by Treelor » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 18:16

I voted cheating not because of the script, but because you were taking advantage of the kindness of the Argon people throughout combat. If you're gonna shoot at someone, at least have the guts to get shot back!

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Re: Treelor

Post by MatterStorm1 » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 18:51

Treelor wrote:I voted cheating not because of the script, but because you were taking advantage of the kindness of the Argon people throughout combat. If you're gonna shoot at someone, at least have the guts to get shot back!
I was in an M3+ (Argon Advanced Eclipse). I had to retry a couple times because when he did fight back, I died. But ya, that kind of makes it overly easy.
I have X3:TC v2.7.1 on Windows Vista

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Serial Kicked
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Post by Serial Kicked » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 19:03

IMHO those kind of "cheat" scripts have the bad tendency to spoil the sense of accomplishment you get from playing / succeeding. Reducing the game's durability. That's why i always try to balance my owns as much as possible. I don't like freebies (in my games, feel free to send me millions of euros, i won't spit on it :mrgreen:)

On the other hand i began scripting to tune such scripts. And doing so has increased the game's life a lot for me.
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Post by clcabbage » Mon, 12. Jul 10, 23:06

I feel the "Apologize" exploit is the bigger demon in this senario. I think 1 apology is fine, but after opening up on the target after he accepts the first time is blatant and unexceptable.
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Kadatherion
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Post by Kadatherion » Tue, 13. Jul 10, 06:24

clcabbage wrote:I feel the "Apologize" exploit is the bigger demon in this senario. I think 1 apology is fine, but after opening up on the target after he accepts the first time is blatant and unexceptable.
Yup. The real game breaker for me in boarding scenarios is the completely vanilla apologize exploit, much more exploitable than this very script itself imho. I probably wouldn't even ever have thought it could work that way if it weren't extensively described (and suggested :roll: ) in most boarding "tutorial" guides. With the vanilla mechanic, you just have to wait until your marines are at the core, then apologize and hey presto, you've got a shiny new cap ship with very little rep loss and the police ignoring you. Now, I know in most countries there are many jokes about police "brightness", but this is stretching it too far! :lol:

I never use it, since when I decide that I really want that Hyperion and Agamemnon then it means I'm ready to declare war to those Paranid arseholes, but the exploitable mechanic is there and I can understand several people might find it an hard to resist temptation.


Anyway, I used that script for a while myself, not a bad one. But I ended up uninstalling it since it wasn't really mandatory for me: it's most useful to cap those uncappable fighters like ATF ones, but since now I'm using OTAS ships for my fleet it became a waste of resources for me. Though I would never ever live without Cycrow's improved boarding :wink:

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Post by Wintersdark » Tue, 13. Jul 10, 11:25

As with many others, I'm strongly in the camp of: There is no cheating in a single player game. You do what makes the game fun for you.

In my own games, I don't use marines. At all. I've never once successfully boarded with them, and I'm uninteresting in learning. Conceptually it's very cool, but the implementation is very rough and the whole marine training thing is extremely annoying (to me).

So, I pick a middle ground:

I install the NPC bailing addon, and allow (with a low chance) big/huge ship bailing. I personally think it's highly reasonable - even with cap ships, if the ship is nearly destroyed and the crew bails, they are saving their own lives after all. And I need to be able to get the ship to that point, and to have the good fortune to pick a captain who isn't interested in going down with his ship :)

And I never, ever apologize unless my fire actually was in error(or could believably be, anyways!) I'm mostly interested in what I feel is reasonable. If I could get a script that forcibly prevented multiple apologies, i would; and even better yet one that made the whole acceptance of the apology in the first place uncertain. Random, modified by relative size difference(People are much more likely to accept an apology for unintentional fire when it's coming from a much larger ship!) and most importantly the amount of fire. A single errant round is one this, a concerted storm of laser fire utterly depleting their shields? That strains credibility.

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Post by ADStryker » Tue, 13. Jul 10, 15:08

I wonder ... given the fact that many players simply "reload" until they achieve the boarding results they desire (i.e., "cheating" within the vanilla framework), how can this script be considered cheating by comparison?
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LV
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Post by LV » Tue, 13. Jul 10, 19:00

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

This goes further away from cheating to exploiting and exploits

There are many ways to exploit the vanilla x, most are openly know others are not

We could hex hack a save to fix the stats or money and appear vanilla, use a previous version where rewards were much higher, mobile mine infinite nividium in KE etc etc or the simplest method of all "salvage insurance"

I think it's because many people see any exploit on a vanilla (this goes for any game not just x) as fair game.

I know for a fact i do in other games (static high end weps locations in freelancer as an e.g.)

Another way of looking at the issue is should developers fix these things and should we whine like little girls when they do.

There will never be a consensus of what's right or wrong in any game as we all have our own expectations.


I think the reason why it's such an interesting debate when it comes to X is that many moons ago the decision to burn a modified tag into the main screen of the game demonized modding to the general uneducated community, from my viewpoint it was not only a stupid decision but also counter productive because the logevity of games is driven by updated content.

from the devs point of view it saved them time hunting bugs they did not cause which is a perfectly valid reason, i think that's the reason it's such an issue here because it was implemented badly (or lets say it could have been done better)

We've never rid ourselves of the stigma and i don't think we will. Bottom line is a majority of people miss out on enhancing their game, their loss not ours, the addition of stats and now steam achievements also steer people away from us in here but again, their loss but certainly a way of keeping the game going for vanilla users

For me stats and achievements are totally pointless, for others a must.

That's why ego created the bonus pack in principle, so what we do can be added in a valid and balanced way so there is a bridge between vanilla and 3rd party devs for the entire community.

Personally i made the choice a long time ago that because of the amount of people who have the "I'm not using mods/scripts (aka cheating) opinion outside of S&M) i'm never going to spend a single second putting anything forward to the bonus pack.

It's unfortunate because i can guarantee that my version of x is much harder for the player than the vanilla but the standard belief is not only vanilla is the way the game is intended but adding anything = cheating

Fools :)

/rant
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Serial Kicked
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Post by Serial Kicked » Tue, 13. Jul 10, 19:46

Best Rant Ever.

(it will save me some time arguing when i can't resist answering a stupid comment in the other board, i'll link to your post instead)
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jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Tue, 13. Jul 10, 20:09

Serial Kicked wrote:Best Rant Ever.
Indeed, but unfortunately this was not the first nor the last time that LV has presented it (for the reasons that he did explain).

Without such quality content I would quote parts of [url=http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216696][b]T[/b][b]C[/b] [b]S[/b]&M Posting [b]R[/b]ules[/url]:
The #1 Rule for S&M

If you download a script or mod from any S&M forum you will have downloaded it from a specific thread, if you have any questions or queries about installing, using or playing the script or you have 2 choices:-

...

12. When you download a script or mod from the Scripting and Modding forum post any questions, problems or comments in relation to that script/mod in the thread you got it from. Do Not create a new topic for them.

...

Extra rules for the Scripting & Modding Forum

2. Posting topics that have nothing to do with Scripts and Modding : Don't do it!
Cheating has nothing to do with S&M and the OP question was about a particular script, but oh well ... ;)

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