Wanton use of nukes and the path to galactic conquest!
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Megamolanius
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon, 16. Feb 09, 18:33
How about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ2JMMMmTY4
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Doc Quixotic
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Fri, 27. Feb 09, 10:54
Nonono... Always remember: space is an ocean. Skip to 3:33 for the real deal.
Non est ad astra mollis e terris via
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5c0rch!
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Sun, 4. Nov 07, 02:01
Perfect. I don't think anyone else could have come up with something better. I can imagine a video of the gang shooting up a M7M escort, sped up of course.NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:Somehow.. this seems more appropriate..
Now I can't stop listening to it!
A nuke a day keeps the enemies at bay! - Golden Wisdom
There is a thin line between meaningful posts and spam... I like to think I walk that line everyday.
There is a thin line between meaningful posts and spam... I like to think I walk that line everyday.
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Knetter_Gek
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Thu, 15. Jan 09, 07:53
Actually, for the marines....
An ex-colleague of mine has joined the US armed forces a few years ago and a year or so back was telling me they were playing this "man versus man" song from Rammstein as their 'theme song'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GZF9FC86UY
I didn't have the heart to tell him what the lyrics mean.
An ex-colleague of mine has joined the US armed forces a few years ago and a year or so back was telling me they were playing this "man versus man" song from Rammstein as their 'theme song'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GZF9FC86UY
I didn't have the heart to tell him what the lyrics mean.
We are all explorers of the deepest reaches of space.
We don't just watch space on our monitors and listen to the sounds in it:
We, all of us, each and every one of us, owns, to a man, as many operational Space Shuttles as NASA does.
Yes, we're all that awesome. Give yourself a hug.
We don't just watch space on our monitors and listen to the sounds in it:
We, all of us, each and every one of us, owns, to a man, as many operational Space Shuttles as NASA does.
Yes, we're all that awesome. Give yourself a hug.
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Chris0132
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
It probably falls under the don't ask don't tell rule.Knetter_Gek wrote:Actually, for the marines....
An ex-colleague of mine has joined the US armed forces a few years ago and a year or so back was telling me they were playing this "man versus man" song from Rammstein as their 'theme song'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GZF9FC86UY
I didn't have the heart to tell him what the lyrics mean.
I don't actually know exactly what it means but I do know rammstein so I can make a reasonably educated guess...
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pSylle
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Tue, 13. Jan 09, 22:59
Great movie ;DDoc Quixotic wrote:Nonono... Always remember: space is an ocean. Skip to 3:33 for the real deal.
Also that one.
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Tiedyeguy
- Posts: 1156
- Joined: Mon, 16. Feb 04, 03:39
Damned my computer for being dead and my phone sucking. I can read these replies but can't follow the Youtube links to know WTF you guys are talking about 
.
.Former Commanding Officer of "Hellbound Handbasket" M7 Panther light Carrier in the mighty fleet of Admiral Leo 'Steve' Kayean.NUKLEAR-SLUG wrote:A wasp can sting you and that just hurts, a hundred stings can be fatal.. and that's before you consider most wasps don't come armed with flamethrowers.
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Limbo365
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Thu, 23. Apr 09, 18:50
Wanton Use of Nukes Blue Wing: Limbo
Quotes I like
Quotes I like
Klanthalas wrote:Who needs engineering when ya can just hit the control panel with a wrench
Gavrushka wrote:Huh, I'm no cheat, I'm not touching the infernal Springblossom I fly an unshielded Octopus with no upgrades and a damaged hull and when I want to take on a Xenon Q, I just hold my breath, roll down the window and throw pies at it..
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NUKLEAR-SLUG
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Thu, 4. May 06, 13:20
Prev chapter<->Next chapter
70 - Economics 101
So.. what ever did happen to Red wing then?
Well I say what happened but clearly there still is a Red wing, just they're a different Red wing, so evidently the old Red wing is off doing something else and indeed they are. With the addition of so many mercenary fighter-jocks to the ranks a dedicated shield-busting wing wasn't really needed as either/or of the fighting wings in the area can be reassigned to shield suppression once they've dealt with any fast-movers. That of course leaves the Falcon Haulers slightly redundant in their current capacity, but I do have a role for them..
One of the main benefits to running a gargantuan megacomplex with everything packed together, hooked up and generally attached to everything else, is the ability to share resources among the many diverse fabrication plants incorporated into the complex. This is fantastic if you happen to have everything you need plugged in there to meet the needs as everything can draw from the pool of resourcers and nothing ever runs out. No freighters required to keep it fed, it just sits there and seemingly generates you things that cost a lot for nothing.
The downside to a megacomplex of course is that once you start it going you can't stop it and if you're short of a particular resource you can't direct that resource to specific parts of the complex. Alternatively it may be that you want to turn some manufacturing loop off for a while to stockpile a resource to feed a secondary loop instead. Can't do that if it's all plugged together. Of course, if you have seperate loops, you have the problem of managing your resource flow which requires both freighters and credits.
So how to manage several mini-loops, all purchasing the resources they require from the other loops of the complex and without requiring huge amounts of capital to be tied up? Well for my requirements I have the following:
Energy loop: produces e-cells, needs silicon
Silicon mine: produces silicon, needs e-cells
Oreplex: produces ore, needs e-cells
MissileFab1: produces missiles, needs energy and ore
MissileFab2: produces missiles, needs energy and ore
Obviously this is going to require a few freighters to function so it's how to organise those freighters so that they work automatically with no input from me.
Starting with the Energy loop then, there is a need for silicon as an input. Equally for the Silicon mine there is a need for energy as an input, so this can be done with two freighters. One homebased to the Energy loop sells energy cells to the mine repeatedly. One homebased to the Silicon mine sells silicon to the Energy loop. In addition to the flow of energy/silicon then there is also a flow of cash as each freighter sells resources. This requires each to have a small cash float. The problem arises when there's a difference between the amount of cash being traded for each resource as sooner or later one or the other will run out of cash as the cash flows to one side and the whole system will stall. To avoid this then both sides of the complex have to make a small profit.
Now you're probably wondering how you can make a profit by basically just exchanging two resources back and forth and you'd be right to wonder because clearly that's impossible. All will become clear shortly, for now bear with me. For now tho what you need to ensure is that each side of the complex is selling its product for slightly more than it's paying in resources. In the case of the Silicon mine for example..
http://dbbr17626.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/steve/70-1.gif
.. Buying energy for 20cr it sells silicon back to the Energy loop for 485cr, which is slightly more than the 480cr it costs to make. This causes a small net gain in cash for the silicon mine which over time would build up. To stop it building up I've set the silicon mine to auto-trasnfer anything over 200k to my account. Every time the silicon mine makes a sale and tops the 200k limit the excess is siphoned off to me personally. Of course if money from the Energy loop is moving to the Silicon mine and then being creamed off by me that means the Energy loop is losing money slowly, so how to top up the cash supply of the Energy loop?
Easy, it sells energy to the Oreplex. Or, more specifically, the Oreplex has a single freighter homebased and set to buy energy from the Energy loop repeatedly. As the Energy loop requires no resources from the Oreplex in return that's a direct one-way profit for the Energy loop. Money goes in, but doesn't go out. Again this will mean the Energy loop makes a profit at the expense of the Oreplex, but that's fine because once again the excess is set to siphon off to me directly if it goes over 200k.
So, if the Oreplex is losing money buying e-cells, then how does it top up it's own reserves? By selling Ore to the missile fabs at a slight profit..
http://dbbr17626.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/steve/70-2.gif
.. So again the Oreplex is losing money on one hand, but making it up on the other hand and any excess is once again skimmed off the top and sent to me.
Now obviously if there's a flow of cash then at some point there has to be a bottom rung to this. Someone, somewhere, is losing big time and in this case it's the missile fabs. The missiles fabs needing both Ore and Energy have two freighters each set to buy the resources from the Oreplex and Energy loop that they require..
http://dbbr17626.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/steve/70-3.gif
.. but in this case the product price is set to maximum, because this is the point in the whole system at which I want to be injecting extra cash. Obviously I don't want to be doing it myself as that would fairly defeat the point of an automated system so this is the point, by convoluted explanantion, that the ex-members of Red wing come in as they're the ones that supply the cash input. Now how you're wondering do they do that? Simple, by selling my missiles to myself.
This may seem an odd concept on first look but it's slightly loopy than it sounds so bear with me. The Falcon Haulers of red wing have been re-assigned and homebased to my Elephant TL which now has a permanent mooring a few km away from my MissileFabs and each Falcon has been given the task of buying missiles from my MissileFabs and selling them to my Elephant. The cash for this comes from my personal account and goes into the accounts of the MissileFabs. Once again the MissileFabs are set to transfer any amount over a certain threshold straight into my account so what you end up with is a situation in which a Falcon flies to a MissileFab, spends several hundred Kcr on missiles, and the cash for that is transferred from my personal account, to the MissileFab and then almost all of it is transferred back to my personal account again almost instantly.
The only cash that doesn't come back is exactly equivalent to what the MissileFabs have been spending acquiring resources, but that amount is exactly the same amount that the Oreplex, Energy loop and Silicon mine are feeding back to me. So what you have is a small flow of cash into the MissileFabs from me, flowing down thru the resource providers, and then from the resource providers back to me. If the MissileFabs take 200k from me, it's because 200k has flowed down thru the system and been given back to me from a combination of excess payments to me from the Oreplex, Energy loop and Silicon mine. Noone loses anything, noone gains anything,
So what's the point of doing it this way, aside from I like to be difficult..? Well for one it automates the transfer of goods from a fabrication point such as my MissileFabs to a collection point such as my TL. I don't have to check my factories every so often to make sure they're not filling up as I know they're being emptied regularly.
The main advantage to this is for multi-sector complexes. Sure if you want to shove everything in one sector you could just link it all together, but in my case my manufacturing base spans two sectors, one where the silicon is to supply my energy loop and one where the ore is to supply the fabs. Of course there's no reason why I couldn't span more than two sectors or even sectors on different sides of the universe, all it would require is a suitably jump-drive equipped freighter.
So there you go, that's what happened to Red wing.
Assets
1x Shrike 'Preemptive Shrike'
1x Gannet 'Providence'
1x Elephant 'You Want It Where!?!
1x Kestrel 'Flash II'
1x Caiman 'NMMC Storage'
1x Iguana Vanguard 'Suicide Taxi Services'
10x Vulture Miner ' Miner - 01,10'
2x Vulture Super Freighter
Time: 5-17:23
Credits: 407,117
70 - Economics 101
So.. what ever did happen to Red wing then?
Well I say what happened but clearly there still is a Red wing, just they're a different Red wing, so evidently the old Red wing is off doing something else and indeed they are. With the addition of so many mercenary fighter-jocks to the ranks a dedicated shield-busting wing wasn't really needed as either/or of the fighting wings in the area can be reassigned to shield suppression once they've dealt with any fast-movers. That of course leaves the Falcon Haulers slightly redundant in their current capacity, but I do have a role for them..
One of the main benefits to running a gargantuan megacomplex with everything packed together, hooked up and generally attached to everything else, is the ability to share resources among the many diverse fabrication plants incorporated into the complex. This is fantastic if you happen to have everything you need plugged in there to meet the needs as everything can draw from the pool of resourcers and nothing ever runs out. No freighters required to keep it fed, it just sits there and seemingly generates you things that cost a lot for nothing.
The downside to a megacomplex of course is that once you start it going you can't stop it and if you're short of a particular resource you can't direct that resource to specific parts of the complex. Alternatively it may be that you want to turn some manufacturing loop off for a while to stockpile a resource to feed a secondary loop instead. Can't do that if it's all plugged together. Of course, if you have seperate loops, you have the problem of managing your resource flow which requires both freighters and credits.
So how to manage several mini-loops, all purchasing the resources they require from the other loops of the complex and without requiring huge amounts of capital to be tied up? Well for my requirements I have the following:
Energy loop: produces e-cells, needs silicon
Silicon mine: produces silicon, needs e-cells
Oreplex: produces ore, needs e-cells
MissileFab1: produces missiles, needs energy and ore
MissileFab2: produces missiles, needs energy and ore
Obviously this is going to require a few freighters to function so it's how to organise those freighters so that they work automatically with no input from me.
Starting with the Energy loop then, there is a need for silicon as an input. Equally for the Silicon mine there is a need for energy as an input, so this can be done with two freighters. One homebased to the Energy loop sells energy cells to the mine repeatedly. One homebased to the Silicon mine sells silicon to the Energy loop. In addition to the flow of energy/silicon then there is also a flow of cash as each freighter sells resources. This requires each to have a small cash float. The problem arises when there's a difference between the amount of cash being traded for each resource as sooner or later one or the other will run out of cash as the cash flows to one side and the whole system will stall. To avoid this then both sides of the complex have to make a small profit.
Now you're probably wondering how you can make a profit by basically just exchanging two resources back and forth and you'd be right to wonder because clearly that's impossible. All will become clear shortly, for now bear with me. For now tho what you need to ensure is that each side of the complex is selling its product for slightly more than it's paying in resources. In the case of the Silicon mine for example..
http://dbbr17626.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/steve/70-1.gif
.. Buying energy for 20cr it sells silicon back to the Energy loop for 485cr, which is slightly more than the 480cr it costs to make. This causes a small net gain in cash for the silicon mine which over time would build up. To stop it building up I've set the silicon mine to auto-trasnfer anything over 200k to my account. Every time the silicon mine makes a sale and tops the 200k limit the excess is siphoned off to me personally. Of course if money from the Energy loop is moving to the Silicon mine and then being creamed off by me that means the Energy loop is losing money slowly, so how to top up the cash supply of the Energy loop?
Easy, it sells energy to the Oreplex. Or, more specifically, the Oreplex has a single freighter homebased and set to buy energy from the Energy loop repeatedly. As the Energy loop requires no resources from the Oreplex in return that's a direct one-way profit for the Energy loop. Money goes in, but doesn't go out. Again this will mean the Energy loop makes a profit at the expense of the Oreplex, but that's fine because once again the excess is set to siphon off to me directly if it goes over 200k.
So, if the Oreplex is losing money buying e-cells, then how does it top up it's own reserves? By selling Ore to the missile fabs at a slight profit..
http://dbbr17626.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/steve/70-2.gif
.. So again the Oreplex is losing money on one hand, but making it up on the other hand and any excess is once again skimmed off the top and sent to me.
Now obviously if there's a flow of cash then at some point there has to be a bottom rung to this. Someone, somewhere, is losing big time and in this case it's the missile fabs. The missiles fabs needing both Ore and Energy have two freighters each set to buy the resources from the Oreplex and Energy loop that they require..
http://dbbr17626.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/steve/70-3.gif
.. but in this case the product price is set to maximum, because this is the point in the whole system at which I want to be injecting extra cash. Obviously I don't want to be doing it myself as that would fairly defeat the point of an automated system so this is the point, by convoluted explanantion, that the ex-members of Red wing come in as they're the ones that supply the cash input. Now how you're wondering do they do that? Simple, by selling my missiles to myself.
This may seem an odd concept on first look but it's slightly loopy than it sounds so bear with me. The Falcon Haulers of red wing have been re-assigned and homebased to my Elephant TL which now has a permanent mooring a few km away from my MissileFabs and each Falcon has been given the task of buying missiles from my MissileFabs and selling them to my Elephant. The cash for this comes from my personal account and goes into the accounts of the MissileFabs. Once again the MissileFabs are set to transfer any amount over a certain threshold straight into my account so what you end up with is a situation in which a Falcon flies to a MissileFab, spends several hundred Kcr on missiles, and the cash for that is transferred from my personal account, to the MissileFab and then almost all of it is transferred back to my personal account again almost instantly.
The only cash that doesn't come back is exactly equivalent to what the MissileFabs have been spending acquiring resources, but that amount is exactly the same amount that the Oreplex, Energy loop and Silicon mine are feeding back to me. So what you have is a small flow of cash into the MissileFabs from me, flowing down thru the resource providers, and then from the resource providers back to me. If the MissileFabs take 200k from me, it's because 200k has flowed down thru the system and been given back to me from a combination of excess payments to me from the Oreplex, Energy loop and Silicon mine. Noone loses anything, noone gains anything,
So what's the point of doing it this way, aside from I like to be difficult..? Well for one it automates the transfer of goods from a fabrication point such as my MissileFabs to a collection point such as my TL. I don't have to check my factories every so often to make sure they're not filling up as I know they're being emptied regularly.
The main advantage to this is for multi-sector complexes. Sure if you want to shove everything in one sector you could just link it all together, but in my case my manufacturing base spans two sectors, one where the silicon is to supply my energy loop and one where the ore is to supply the fabs. Of course there's no reason why I couldn't span more than two sectors or even sectors on different sides of the universe, all it would require is a suitably jump-drive equipped freighter.
So there you go, that's what happened to Red wing.
Assets
1x Shrike 'Preemptive Shrike'
1x Gannet 'Providence'
1x Elephant 'You Want It Where!?!
1x Kestrel 'Flash II'
1x Caiman 'NMMC Storage'
1x Iguana Vanguard 'Suicide Taxi Services'
10x Vulture Miner ' Miner - 01,10'
2x Vulture Super Freighter
Time: 5-17:23
Credits: 407,117
Last edited by NUKLEAR-SLUG on Tue, 1. Sep 09, 18:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Epiphany
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Sat, 31. Jan 04, 06:08
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Gorium
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Sat, 13. Jun 09, 22:19
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baric
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Mon, 6. Aug 07, 03:47
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GCU Grey Area
- Posts: 8360
- Joined: Sat, 14. Feb 04, 23:07
If you really want to fry your brain have a go at X2 - used to have to do something similar for every single station in a production loop - no complex kits back then & no M or L sized stations either. Every loop needed dozens of freighters & careful price setting to get it to work, so that no station was starved of resources or ran out of credits.baric wrote:Brain is going to explode. NOW I know why I hated economics classes and why I suck at making complexes....
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Idleking
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Tue, 15. Aug 06, 15:47
I think it took some time to figure that out, but I get the idea of setting up the factories in such a way...
The only thing I don't get right is that "trade-loop"-thingie:
How do you manage to get your freighters buying only from your factories?
Of course this can be done via adjusting the jumprange to 1, but setting the buying price limit for Energy Cells to 20 Credits each (it's a Max. Price, right?) does not necessarily mean your freighters are actually buying the Energy Cells at that price from your factories...
Well, ok it works if there is no other source for Energy Cells within 1 jump... or is it really that easy?
I never tried setting fighters with a TL as homebase assigned to "Buy Ware (for best price)" - does that really work?
Since a TL has no "specific resource", I wonder how this could be configured properly.
I think I'm going to do a quick test in my own game
Result:
Hm, you can only send your TL-based ships manually to buy wares, so no automation at this point.
Have I got something wrong or wasn't this "way of doing stuff" meant to require no manual input?
The only thing I don't get right is that "trade-loop"-thingie:
How do you manage to get your freighters buying only from your factories?
Of course this can be done via adjusting the jumprange to 1, but setting the buying price limit for Energy Cells to 20 Credits each (it's a Max. Price, right?) does not necessarily mean your freighters are actually buying the Energy Cells at that price from your factories...
Well, ok it works if there is no other source for Energy Cells within 1 jump... or is it really that easy?
I never tried setting fighters with a TL as homebase assigned to "Buy Ware (for best price)" - does that really work?
Since a TL has no "specific resource", I wonder how this could be configured properly.
I think I'm going to do a quick test in my own game
Result:
Hm, you can only send your TL-based ships manually to buy wares, so no automation at this point.
Have I got something wrong or wasn't this "way of doing stuff" meant to require no manual input?