[script] Improved Races (r14 RC2 Available)

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7ate9tin11s
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Post by 7ate9tin11s »

Gazz wrote:"Bothersome thing turned off"...
Of course not, probabilities are linked with the difficulty mode and the less than brave can turn things all the way off if they want (Like the Kha'ak p2p jumping).

/and no, I was not saying Gazz was a bothersome thing to turn off... :lol:
//though mars can really ruin the day of missile ships ;)
///and I like missiles...so I recommend mars for survival :D

edit: No release today, have to finish writing the blockade ai and a light version of the aoandon ai for carrier responses.

...I wonder how many custom ai routines I will end up with...there are 20 so far in r10 :o
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Gazz
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Post by Gazz »

7ate9tin11s wrote:Of course not, probabilities are linked with the difficulty mode and the less than brave can turn things all the way off if they want (Like the Kha'ak p2p jumping).
IMO, all the way off means a 5 % chance. (always read the package insert =)
and no, I was not saying Gazz was a bothersome thing to turn off... :lol:
Oh, some moderators might actually... edit LV do you really think it's that's hard for us to do ;) :twisted:


So your Khaak dig swarming?
When Khaak are using MARS they do some swarming of their own and I think that looks pretty cool.
Every Khaak big ship can then deploy/spawn scouts although the M6 only have a few available.
(it's still a bit buggy but I'm working on it)
1 A-Kyon isn't a real threat but that extends the reach of a lonely Khaak capital ship because it deploys scouts that go 300+ m/s. It helps them dealing with their poopy laser range.

But I'm thinking of something else for your Khaak. Clusters fragmenting into many little Khaaklets is nice and dandy but what about 4 scouts merging into a fighter (once they have traveled fast and made enemy contact), more into a bomber.
They already look like triangular LEGOs so why not give them a few replicator genes, merging many (useless) drones into a capable M6 perchance...
They could form into a Guardian for a temporary firebase?
You could tie that into Signal_Attacked, mostly or totally eliminating any watcher script overhead.

You can't just charge a large swarm of "harmless" scouts with an M3 because they might turn into a few fighters, a guardian, maybe an M6.
You're not fighting individual ships but... the swarm.
Khaak would not necessarily become harder to fight (let's face it - all their ships suck) but more... unnerving. Alien. That nameless thing in your nightmares.

If you can make the player fear Khaak for what they are - even though they have crappy ships and weapons - then you have a winner. Messing with the player's mind can be very rewarding.
Err... for the player, I mean. The whole game experience thing, ya'know?


But if you want it to be scary, you have to make a show off it.
A good show can be 90% of a script's "value" because that's what the player sees. Any amount of narrative about what has just happened is insignificant when compared to showing the player.
Old live action roleplayer rule: If you can act it convincingly, it has happened. It's real. The game masters will bend or flat out break the rules for a good show.
I bet that a good deal of MARS' popularity also comes from the show those Goblins put up. Cargo isn't just beamed on board, no - a little drone goes and fetches the container and it's flying slowly while towing the container. It all looks... real.

So if Khaak scout KM5-72 is attacked by an M3 it decides to even the odds a bit.
3 other scouts are quickly determined to be "in range". All 4 get collisions turned off, KM5-72 stops and the other 3 execute a move to position with a small watcher script continually setting their speed to max (684736 works).
So all 3 extras are seen to be crashing right into the first scout, emerging as a fighter once the last arrives.
Alas, collisions off is required to allow them to go for a collision course.
But it won't take long so I doubt it would be very noticable.

Oh, you can probably skip the show part if the Playership is some 10 km away...
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Post by someone else »

But I'm thinking of something else for your Khaak.
ok for scouts merging into M3... is very very cool.
but fighters that poof and suddenly appears a guardian or Corvette is... odd. they are not composed from the same modules.

would be frikkin cool if the Khaak bigships were built from loads of buzzing M5 and M3... like a oversized Cluster that shoots like crazy.

That would require a mod though. :D

that will allow that frightening "merging" behaviour Gazz described.

that is.... a Khaak M2! no! a hundred M5! no! 25 M3!
OMG GET THE HECK OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
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Gazz
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Post by Gazz »

someone else wrote:ok for scouts merging into M3... is very very cool.
but fighters that poof and suddenly appears a guardian or Corvette is... odd. they are not composed from the same modules.
Yah, it's not perfect but with a bit of artistic license I think it's reasonable.
(as long as it stays a pure script it won't have noticable compatibility issues)

If you see a lot of scouts and/or fighters begin the merging maneuver - getthehellouttadodge.

There's nothing worse than a dependably stupid AI.
3 Khaak corvettes? Execute maneuver 1, staying out of firing range.

Now what if those corvettes detach into fighters that are faster than your ship? Using your superior PPC range isn't going to help you against a swarm of quickly approaching M4. And you never know if they might decide to merge back into an M6 when they have caught up with you. Bastards might force you to you think.
You may have to use missiles, minefields, even *eek* tactics! Bastards.

LV wrote:do you really think it's that's hard for us to do ;) :twisted:
Hahahaha!
Egosoft should thank you daily for the work you do here. By internet standards this forum is a true shangri-la...
It's not like I'm not trying to behave. By my standards anyway. =)
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Post by ThisIsHarsh »

I've got a gazillion "Thor" ships in Grand Exchange, all running !ship.cmd.killenemiesland.std. They don't seem to have a carrier (and no homebase assigned, though I remember you did that to stop respawning), they're all just sat there at 0 speed.

EDIT: I just had a fight with a Xenon M1 (forget if its J or K lol). It was escorted by an M and an Unknown Object. I had a look in it's hangar and there were 50 fighters just sat there! I looked at one of them to see what script it was running and it wasn't running any script at all. Any of the 'formation' type scripts will do (e.g. protect, attacknearest, etc), they all dock automatically when there are no threats.
Last edited by ThisIsHarsh on Wed, 29. Jul 09, 05:30, edited 2 times in total.
Chris0132
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Post by Chris0132 »

Am I the only person who would rather fight three fighters than a dozen scouts?

Scouts are a pain in the backside in large numbers, they tie up your turrets and make it near impossible to target larger ships.

The scout swarm is possibly the greatest part of khaak strength, the solution to khaak being weak is to make more swarms that are harder to thin out, and be sure to mix a couple of beta kyon equipped ships in with them for the improved damage.

To be honest, the most terryfing form of khaak I can imagine is the kind which self replicates. One scout becomes two, and two become four, eight, sixteen, thirty two, sixty four, etc.

Having a swarm which, if you don't get rid of it fast, will become too big to manage, that would be scary, especially if it was composed entirely of the glorified fighter drones that are scouts.

For a practical implementation of this, I would have to suggest that khaak can reform into clusters, and if maybe ten clusters get together they become a carrier.

They should do this similarly to how they construct stations, and then the carriers spawn more fighters, which then eventually become another carrier, so the carriers would be the primary threat. Or possibly this could be the hive queen mechanic.
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Gazz
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Post by Gazz »

Chris0132 wrote:To be honest, the most terryfing form of khaak I can imagine is the kind which self replicates. One scout becomes two, and two become four, eight, sixteen, thirty two, sixty four, etc.
I think that would be too much. If M1/2 had the ability to spawn scouts (and M6 very slowly) that would be enough.
Having to hunt down every last scout would be too annoying. Bigger ships are easier to find and they don't buzz around that much.
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Post by 7ate9tin11s »

I think that would be too much. If M1/2 had the ability to spawn scouts (and M6 very slowly) that would be enough.
Kha'ak carriers already have the ability to spawn fighters and do so about once every 45 seconds or so, the higher your difficulty the greater the chance of stronger fighters.
Having to hunt down every last scout would be too annoying.
No worries there, the Kha'ak are very agressive in IR...and scouts like to rush up and suicide too...and that reeeeeally hurts. Of course, if your goblins are causing too much trouble scouts have the option of splitting themselves into missiles to take out all the small enemies around :twisted:

/scouts are just a cluster of missiles, right??? :roll:
Bigger ships are easier to find and they don't buzz around that much.
If you turn off p2p jumping, yes. Otherwise big ships will use evasive p2p jumping when they can...or sometimes decide to hop to the other side of the sector to kill something (but that gives you time to deal with the missiles, right?)
...gazillion "Thor"...
That is what happens when the capship gets destroyed or leaves when using the stock script. I wrote a simple wrapper to fix that in r10 already after noticing it.
So your Khaak dig swarming?
Yes, but only in sectors that are under the direct attack of a station (Universe-wide would melt things...). The station will take over targeting and processing of the ships so the entire swarm is basically just one ship. It can still be stupid sometimes, but every swarm has their lemmings... :lol:

/if your in debug mode the stations will tell you where they are managing swarms
//statistics gives you clues, look for sectors with more than 15 Kha'ak, it is usually a swarm

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Right now I am tuning up the Xenon since they are getting butchered by the defense forces. Their build speed has been increased by around 10% and token cost reduced by 10% (for larger fleets). So far it looks promising, but the long duration testing will tell more (I prefer the Xenon and Kha'ak takeovers to be within 30% of each other).

Although there are a plethora of great ideas in here right now, they will have to wait until later release. The response system is quite large and, while I have not found any random lockups, it needs some real world feedback. :D

edit: Xenon tuned. Running final long duration stability test (24 hours gametime) now...may have a release in a few hours after I get back from dinner.
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Post by 7ate9tin11s »

:D

r10 is here...

Upgrade Warning: Due to the new incursion response system automatic upgrading may not work correctly. While I have tried to make sure it covers all contingencies, I really recommend turning off all improved races and letting the game run in SETA for 10 minutes or so before upgrading. At the very least turn off counterstrikes for 10 minutes of SETA. You have been warned :D

Download
Revision 10
ZIP & SPK: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=4264 ... 6e282a0ee8

The incursion responses default to off, you will need to enable them in the universal menu once you set you options up.

Major Changes

Recon Drones
Incursion responses are now triggered by recon drones which wander around the galaxy. The careful pirate can get in and out before being spotted...the unlucky will have to deal with one of the following...

Fighter Incursion Response
Military bases and Pirate anarchy ports will keep a small fleet of M3 fighters which will jump in and attempt to resolve issues in sectors. Over time they will recover their stocks of fighters.

Capital Ship Incursion Response
Shipyards will keep a small fleet on alert that will jump in and will resolve any issues in a sectors. Depending on the whims of the commander they may have a carrier task force or a destroyer squadron. Over time the fleet will be rebuilt and may change between carrier and destroyer types.

Capital ship fleets consist of a heavy hitting set of response ships which will actively hunt down threats while the blockade forces prevent anyone from leaving. The blockade forces may also launch volleys of missiles to clean up the sector as well.

Hot War
There is peace in the galaxy...until you turn up the heat! With hot war enabled the Boron and Split will not be letting each others military ships through their sectors, and neither will the Argon and Paranid. Pirates will be much more vicious in hot war too. Of course, you will need to be careful of your reputation in a hot war as well... :fg:

The Boost
There is a new option on the main menu for rapid improvement. This will give the selected IR races a sudden and nasty boost. The Xenon can instantly launch 3 invasions, the Kha'ak will suddenly take 3 border sectors, and the Yaki will extend their defenses by 9 gates.

Reinstall
Besides being prompted to reinstall when you change a major option, you can also manually reinstall from the menu. This will reset all of the stations in the universe or install the proper scripts if they are not running.

Yaki Beta - Gate Fighters
The Yaki beta will now place small squads of fighters at gates to control traffic. Along with the Hikari lasertower arrays they are a bit faster at isolating a sector.

Nastier nasties...
The Xenon and Kha'ak have gotten more troublesome to counter the improvements in the vanilla races. Though they still have difficulty against the capital ship response fleets.

Counterstrike improvements
Counterstrikes have been made stronger and now the pirate anarchy ports will launch counterstrikes to try and take back pirate sectors from the Xenon and Kha'ak.

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

phew - while the scripting was not all that hard, properly testing it was nasty. I guess I am...um...looking forward to your bug reports and hoping they are few and far between :D

Even though the incursion response seems ineffective due to the use of recon drones, it really holds the Kha'ak and Xenon back well. In my long duration test (24 hours game time) the Kha'ak had taken 8 sectors at the end and the Xenon just had 6. Of course, this means certain races need improvements... :fg:

Ah well, breaktime till stability or otherwise is ensured :D
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Post by someone else »

In my long duration test (24 hours game time) the Kha'ak had taken 8 sectors at the end and the Xenon just had 6. Of course, this means certain races need improvements...
just a thought... making a option like "races can preserve themselves?"
YES= the races are able to push them back after a while or at least to hold the line someway.
NO= the entire universe needs direct player intervention to ensure that Xenons and Khaaks don't kill 'em all.

another thought....
when the races own about one-quarter of the original sectors they should ally with another close race and dispatch a double counterattack force.
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Post by 7ate9tin11s »

someone else wrote:"races can preserve themselves?"
Basically they can now with the incursion responses and counterstrike forces. Depends on the difficulty of the enemy improved races though. In older long duration tests there were sometimes 20 or more sectors taken by the Kha'ak, so only 8 is much closer to preservation. Thus the races that need improvement are the Kha'ak and Xenon, not the vanilla races. :twisted:
someone else wrote:when the races own about one-quarter of the original sectors they should ally with another close race and dispatch a double counterattack force.
:doh: actuallly the opposite kinda happens...at least with the Kha'ak. The Kha'ak get exponentially more problematic as they take sectors due to their design...if they had a quarter of the map (50+ sectors) there would probably be no stopping them. :fg:

It could be done though, I would just have to add up all the sector takeover lists and see if that is larger than half the sectors. I will keep it in mind.

The Xenon are completely steady in their takeover pattern from start to finish, that is why they seem nastier at the beginning...even though they are the lesser threat.

/sleep...
//Looking for feedback on the incursion response systems...
///Need more drones...or just smarter ones that chase the player? ;)
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Post by Tenlar Scarflame »

Pretty excited about Hotwar, not going to lie. :D It'll make my Paranid-only DiD pretty exciting with CBSW nearby...

related, the Kha'ak behavior Gazz was talking about sounded pretty fun... given that a single Corvette gave me a bucket load of trouble last night... :o
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Post by Scoob »

Hi,

I've installed r10 and all appears to be working well with one slight oddity...

In my game I'm friends with both the Yaki and Pirates...I still get the odd Red pirate due to the known vanilla bug but they never bother me.

However with Hotwar enabled (great idea btw :-)) I've started having problems with Pirates.

I got a notifcation saying that one of my ships had been killed by a Pirate in Desecrated Skies. I was rather bemused by this so reloaded to find out what happened.

Sure enough there's one of my CAG traders out of jump drive fuel and delivering his wares the slow way.

Anyway, I decided to follow him & top up his ECs at the same time when a large group of RED Pirate fighters jump in (response force). I assume they were there because of the Boron Hydra in sector however they totally ignore that obvious threat and attack my CAG and me - even though we're 'friends'. Looks like me (unarmed TM) and my CAG (unarmed Split Super Freighter) were MUCH higher on their threat assesment than the Hydra.

This might be some clash between vanilla logic and the script either way it wasn't nice!! My concern is that if the same happens in the Yaki sectors where I have muliple factories and assests kept 'safe' RED Yaki will spawn and attack me.

Is this how it will be now on in Pirate sectors, any threat spawns Pirate response fleets that are hostile to me? Does my rep mean nothing due to a vanilla bug? Either way, if I start defending myself and my assets my pirate rep will tumble...sure to be FUN but sorta not how I'm roleplaying this particular game.

Still loving this script though - certainly adds some life!

Cheers,

Scoob.
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Post by Troubleshooter11 »

Scoob wrote:Hi,

I've installed r10 and all appears to be working well with one slight oddity...

In my game I'm friends with both the Yaki and Pirates...I still get the odd Red pirate due to the known vanilla bug but they never bother me.

However with Hotwar enabled (great idea btw :-)) I've started having problems with Pirates.

I got a notifcation saying that one of my ships had been killed by a Pirate in Desecrated Skies. I was rather bemused by this so reloaded to find out what happened.

Sure enough there's one of my CAG traders out of jump drive fuel and delivering his wares the slow way.

Anyway, I decided to follow him & top up his ECs at the same time when a large group of RED Pirate fighters jump in (response force). I assume they were there because of the Boron Hydra in sector however they totally ignore that obvious threat and attack my CAG and me - even though we're 'friends'. Looks like me (unarmed TM) and my CAG (unarmed Split Super Freighter) were MUCH higher on their threat assesment than the Hydra.

This might be some clash between vanilla logic and the script either way it wasn't nice!! My concern is that if the same happens in the Yaki sectors where I have muliple factories and assests kept 'safe' RED Yaki will spawn and attack me.

Is this how it will be now on in Pirate sectors, any threat spawns Pirate response fleets that are hostile to me? Does my rep mean nothing due to a vanilla bug? Either way, if I start defending myself and my assets my pirate rep will tumble...sure to be FUN but sorta not how I'm roleplaying this particular game.

Still loving this script though - certainly adds some life!

Cheers,

Scoob.
Answer to your question why they attacked your two merchant ships insted of a military vessel: They....are....pirates!!!!

Quite realistic actually. :P
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Post by Scoob »

Heh, yeah good point! :)

However I am still friends with the main Pirate faction and if they're responding to a threat they shouldn't go gunning for me!! How the response ships spawn shouldn't be automatically hostile to the Player, there should be a rep check & relation to player & player assets set accordingly.

I could easily have had Factories etc. in that very sector which after many many hours of peaceful trading would suddenly have come under attack from the pirates.

I do have significant military assets and I could readily kick their butts however I was roleplay as a trader & my only real enemies were the ones you have no choice over - the Xenon and Kha'ak.

It'd be the same if you had assests in an Argon sector, the Kha'ak jump in and suddenly the Argon response force is gunning for YOU. Why build up the rep if that happens? I could understand the odd rogue elements in the Pirate faction that just want to have a go - IF say I was carrying something valuable - but a random attack like this doesn't fit in with the lore of the game so to speak.

Anyway, maybe this is something that can be addressed ina future release as it's a shame I've been forced into combat like this. Probably will try to exterminate the pirates now because they turned on me :twisted:

Cheers,

Scoob.
7ate9tin11s
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Post by 7ate9tin11s »

Scoob wrote:...I'm friends with both the Yaki and Pirates...a large group of RED Pirate fighters jump in (response force).

...there should be a rep check & relation to player & player assets set accordingly.
There is a rep check! Oh wait...

Code: Select all

skip if player.name == 'Scoob'
  $response = Friend
(kidding kidding :lol: )

Well, technical explination of how hotwar works is this:
When created response forces set any race with a reputation value less than 0 to enemies instead of neutral (pirates are less than or equal to because they are neutral (0) to most races). All the chaos just continues naturally from there. :D

So the question is, what is your true relation to the pirates? if it is less than or equal to 0 then your an enemy, even if most pirates are not your enemy. Most starts have you at -10000 to start so if you have not been actively pirating in their sectors to raise your rep...well...pirate sectors are not completely safe :fg:

To see your actual rep value open the script editor, turn on the show more information option, select a response ship or anarchy port, open the information screen on it and scroll down until you find the race relations block.

/ooooh, good thing to add to the statistics module!
//Thanks :)
...why they attacked your two merchant ships insted of a military vessel...
I wish I could claim pirates being pirates, but the truth is you were closer to them when they entered the sector. Nothing so evil as the Kha'ak targeting system for response forces, just a fast low cpu greedy targeting system. Which I guess is the pirate way...fast...stupid...and greedy :rofl:

/so...um...pirates being pirates! ;)
//Anyone seen or played with the capital response forces yet?
///I could make the pirates have capital responses too...
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Post by Rheikon »

so far the response for capital ships is pretty serious. there's almost no chance for who ever is invading. I have not been in an enemy sector to see their responses yet though as im friends with pretty much everyone right now.

I do remember with rrf and pirate response they would respond to any attack on pirates in any sector. Made things interesting on a patrol and then a carrack or 2 rolls in and over you..

Will yours respond to attacks on the race in any any sector?
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Post by 7ate9tin11s »

Rheikon wrote:Will yours respond to attacks on the race in any any sector?
No, currently IR responses are running in a closed border mode (respond to attacks in owned space only) as completely open borders uses alot of cpu overhead. Basically IR considers ships that are in enemy sectors to be raiding or smuggling and outside of the protection of their response forces.

I am considering a more active war with border sector attacks and exchanges, but am pretty happy with the current cpu vs universe activity ratio :D
...enemy sector...
Currently the Xenon and Goner have no response forces. Though I will be putting together a capital ship response force for the Xenon.

/The Kha'ak do not have an 'official' response force
//but the station and sector will summon in Kha'ak automatically
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Post by Gazz »

7ate9tin11s wrote:So the question is, what is your true relation to the pirates? if it is less than or equal to 0 then your an enemy, even if most pirates are not your enemy.
Relations are tricky beasts...
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Post by Scoob »

Hi,

I checked my official rep as you suggested and here are the highlights:

Yaki -> Scoob = 41,158 :)
Pirates -> Scoob = -4,643 - Damn, after all I've done for them! Really thought we were on better terms! Oh...actually I have just been kicking their butt quite severly after they attacked me & mine in Desecrated Skies...might check an older save.

More scary is:

Terran -> Scoob -29 ...

I've only done the Diplomats mission so far so Terran space is just open to me...well it was. That -29 Terran rep now triggers quite a considerable response.

I'd simply popped up to Heretics End in my Boreas (yes, no more peace for me after what those pirates did!) to get some combat missions and work on my Terran rep as I fancied some of their ships.

Anyway, got to Heretic End no problem...took a 'kill' mission but after I'd jumped to take out the target noticed it was against my buddies the Yaki. Wish it'd told me ... I reloaded.

No sooner had I reloaded (back in Heretics End) than did I hear 'Alert Incoming missile...lots of times. I check the sector map and had the following RED ships after me:

Terran Response #deca
Terran Blockade Gannet
Terran Guardian Katana
Terran Response Katana

Also a non-hostile Terran Blockade Gannet.

Rather an excessive reponse for someone who's been invited to Terran space after a successful escort the diplomats mission...

Course I can take them but I want to be friends. I guess the only way to take the first proper Terran mission would be do do it in an M3 or below or would that trigger a response too?

Gonna blow 'em up for making me jump then reload - just to get it out of my system you understand.

Cheers,

Scoob.

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