[X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 6 (Hotfix 2)

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Betelgeuse97
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Betelgeuse97 » Sat, 23. May 20, 01:15

Courier menu is bugged in that you can't directly select the tasks underneath the 7th one.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Open the courier menu.
2. Add 7 tasks. At this point, you can select any 7 and they can be selected or reordered just fine.
3. Add an 8th task. This 8th task cannot be selected unless you move it around by moving some other tasks beneath the 8th task.

Betelgeuse97
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Betelgeuse97 » Sat, 23. May 20, 02:06

Jefferson95 wrote:
Fri, 22. May 20, 23:45
Could someone post some examples of how to set up your agents?
I`m still having a hard time with those.
First things first, go to the logistics menu in your outpost. Under subsection next to "logistics," make sure it says agents. By default, you'll see "read jobs," showing you all the jobs your outpost currently has. You can add an import or export job. Export = send stuff out, import = take stuff in.

When you import, your agents will take in items until the threshold is reached. When you export, your agents will send out items until the number of items you want to send out is less than the threshold. You can choose how much you want your agents to load, but it's by maximum load by default. You choose the source/destination (e.g. from outposts, local factories, or factories in range). You can also set the priority, with 1 being the highest.

Example 1: Export waste to factories in same sector.
1. For export, I'll set the threshold to 0, so that means if there's waste inside the outpost, my agents will export when it starts this job.
2. Setting will be "factories in sector -> local," so they'll send it only to factories in the same sector as the outpost.
3. I'll set priority to 1 so that this job is executed ASAP.

Example 2: Import e-cells from outpost in another sector.
1. Let's set the threshold to 20k and priority to 1, so that means we'll keep taking in e-cells from the other outpost until we reach 20k.
2. Setting will be "outpost -> (whichever outpost has e-cells)," so my agents will go to that outpost to take e-cells.

Example 3: Export chelt meat to factories in range.
1. For export, I'll set the threshold to 100, so that means if there's more than 100 chelt meat inside the outpost, my agents will export when it starts this job.
2. Setting will be "factories in range," so they'll check the outpost's max sector distance (e.g. 4 sectors away) for any factories within that sector distance that need chelt meat.

Important to note is that the factories' import/export percentages are respected, so if a factory has 30% import, then the agents can feed it until the factory has 30% or more of its resources in. If the factory has 10% export, then agents can start taking its products once it produces 10% of its output capacity.

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Hector0x » Sat, 23. May 20, 10:35

in general it is enough to load the "complete" preset. This will make the Agents serve all of your factories within the max jump range of the outpost.

You can tweak things later to get certain resources to certain outposts. But the "complete" preset is all you need to keep your factories running.

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Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Edna » Sat, 23. May 20, 14:20

I'm now at Day 3 on Scatter Scratch Beta 4 Hotfix 1. Still nine sectors, a bit more economy to cover all resources required, now even Jumpdrive Cores. I also managed to build my first three research stations, researched the Buster Raider, Nova Prototype, the Demeter Prototype and the Toucan Prototype. I'm currently having about 50 stations and about 60 agents, 12 miners and still no military, since I didn't need any yet. Xenon raids come through the Paranid space but usually don't attack my stations and just go for freighters before leaving again. The Split are holding off many raids.

The Paranids have not rebuilt any ships. It's still just their Cyclops with Ariadne and another M7 escort. Split aren't doing anything either, despite having some level of working economy. There haven't been any sector takeovers at all. If anything, the Teladi have abandoned a sector, according to the news.

I myself am focusing on research now. With the economy set up, there is not much else to do. The Acinonyx is halfway researched by now. I have enough crystals and silicon wafers to equip a fleet of those. After the Acinonyx I'll get an Aquilo, too, for crowd control. Then I'll destroy the closest hostile bases and upgrade to Beta 5 Hotfix 2, and then see how I can hold up against the pirates. If I can survive them despite having nine sectors, I'll conquer more and see how it will affect the other races, maybe that will break their stalling a bit. Maybe not. Right now it feels like I'm playing in a universe with braindead NPCs that just rebuild stations but no ships. Maybe a very basic set of ships of a race should get rebuild after like 12 hours, if there are outposts left?

My only concern right now is the maintenance. I'm running an empire of 60 Demeters and they are pretty much always in space. Some have reached 200% maintenance costs. I'm currently paying maintenance of about 40k-50k per hour (which is covered by 2-3 outposts with taxes). And I don't have a military fleet yet, not even a defense wing. I have one M6 that I use when Xenon are around, otherwise I sit in my new Nova Prototype and explore or SETA. Maybe a perk could be added that slowly lowers the maintenance level of ships when docked at the outpost with the perk, or the resupply drone acts like maintenance drone and stops maintenance costs for ships in the sector it is, or something. I know there is the mobile maintenance kit but looking at how few green crystals I got so far, I assume that, even with the crystal transmuter, the MMK is only something for capital ships and nothing for mass production. Correct me if I am wrong here.

Playing motivation is still high. I want to see what happens once I destroy the first Xenon station, and when the Yaki thing starts and what else is to come, like Boarding and what not. I wonder if I can get access to weapon platforms again, or laser towers or combat drones.
Last edited by Edna on Sat, 23. May 20, 15:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Hector0x » Sat, 23. May 20, 14:22

Ok, i think i finally got a clear picture of what is going on with the crystal economy. It stalls NPC fleet building because they all wait for crystals to build weapons or shields.

1) It's indeed the case that crystal factories almost never get visited by traders at all. Because only Pontifex trading stations actually import them. NPC outposts don't. They can only get them with Agents.
2) Outposts seem to have problems getting crystals with Agents. The reason for this is that they have 30 tasks in their job list. There are 28 Agent jobs to check before the import crystals job finally comes at position 29.
3) If an Agent chooses to import something he almost never chooses to import crystals for his outpost. Other resources like hull parts or quantum tubes pile up because the target stock values for all import jobs are at maximum storage capacity. Importing hull parts and the like are always valid jobs and Agents go on them repeatedly.
4) this means the outpost only ever reaches the point of crystal import if it has enough Agents to send them on all other import jobs (for hull parts, tubes, oil, etc.) before the first Agents return. Because then they immediatly go back to these other jobs if factories are in range.
5) After the first Agents get blown up by pirates, the outposts don't have enough Agents anymore to do 4).
6) Agents can't be rebuilt because they need shields (crystals).

The only faction which is still building many ships in my game are the Split. And their outposts usually have around 5 Agents. This means they still get their crystals. All other factions are down to 1-2 Agents per outpost.


Simply adding crystals to all outpost import lists for trade should already do the trick. Without changing anything else.

If this shouldn't be enough another solution comes to mind. If traders should favor certain wares you could increase the price offered from outposts. Currently outposts buy everything at average price. Increasing the price for crystals could make it very lucrative for NPC traders to supply outposts with crystals.
The AI would have no downsides from this because they have infinite money.
The player would also have no downsides because his outposts can have automatic pricing. It sets the price for crystals at maximum if your storage is empty. This means at default settings the player outposts is always preferred by NPC traders if they can sell crystals there.

If after this the universe still had an overall lack of civilian ships you could increase the number of corporation traders or set all pirates and xenon to ignore them.

TLDR: The people need crystal. It probably fixes everything. Including an overall lack of Battlegroups and invasions.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Edna » Sat, 23. May 20, 14:46

By the way, how does the 'Faster Research' perk work? As far as I can tell, it doesn't decrease the Research Cycle time (20 minutes) nor does it increase the Research Points per cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7v5N2oBoiQ
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Edna » Sat, 23. May 20, 19:32

Hm, I see how maintenance is less of a late game issue, now. The Jump Beacons make a whole lot of agents obsolete.
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Edna » Sat, 23. May 20, 22:43

96 ingame hours in, I still have nine sectors but now have a fleet of five Acinonyx and removed all pirate bases in my neighbourhood. All my systems have at least one jump beacon, although I realized the jump beacon commands are not optimized for multiple beacons in a system as sometimes ships use the more distant beacon for jumping in, and they don't use the beacons for inter-system jumps (like from a mine to the outpost). As mentioned in the post before, the beacons still save a HUGE amount of time for ships that travel from outpost to outpost, which takes a lot of maintenance costs away (since slow ships travelling through sectors will make them raise maintenance costs fast, just like miners). I've also stuffed every single sector of mine with each four miners, so I guess crystals of each color won't be an issue at all, so I can at least cover the most expensive miners and freighters with MMKs, too.

I'm having six research stations now and they are working on the Ocelote, which will probably take another whole ingame day for researching and then hours for construction. As I see it, capital ships are, thanks to the MMK, good long-term investments, while fighters are better for either keeping them on stations and carriers or just launch them as fire-and-forget waves at Xenon stations, knowing they won't return in same numbers.

By the way, I noticed that the Beta 4 version of the Galaxy Generator doesn't offer the option for "more trading stations" anymore. Is that entirely removed or part of the increased stats trait? I think they added a lot of density to the map without actually doing something.
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Betelgeuse97
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Betelgeuse97 » Sun, 24. May 20, 00:23

Edna wrote:
Sat, 23. May 20, 14:46
By the way, how does the 'Faster Research' perk work? As far as I can tell, it doesn't decrease the Research Cycle time (20 minutes) nor does it increase the Research Points per cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7v5N2oBoiQ
Did you wait until the next cycle when research points are awarded?

I was also having that question too last night if it adds research percentage or multiplies by existing.

I'm on a scratch galaxy too where everyone starts from square one, and all the races have plenty of mats to build ships but not crystals. Currently 36 in-game hours in and I have yet to see factions make ships, and if I had a pirate base nearby, maybe it could be possible to make a pirate farm for free ships?

Fighters seem to be a good answer to incoming xenon invasions, paired with a wall such as a TL to tank the hits (got to love the Ryu's high total HP for baiting). I hope this works for invading my first sector.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Tomsoneeta » Sun, 24. May 20, 01:27

In the Outposts menu, the name doesn't update when I rename the Outpost like it did in Mayhem 2 in Sanctuaries menu (if I remember correctly :gruebel: ). But it does push the Outpost on top of the menu if the new name starts for example with an A, even when it still shows the original outpost/sector name like President's End.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by 4square425 » Sun, 24. May 20, 06:29

I'm not exactly sure what the best tactics are for invading a sector. My ships enter the gate one at a time, so the enemy fleet is usually one top of them by the time my second or third ship emerges. I tried sending a decoy through a side gate, but that causes my fleet to form a long string instead of a better combat formation. Maybe send through a heavily shielded ship first or invest in carriers?

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Edna » Sun, 24. May 20, 08:52

Betelgeuse97 wrote:
Sun, 24. May 20, 00:23
Edna wrote:
Sat, 23. May 20, 14:46
By the way, how does the 'Faster Research' perk work? As far as I can tell, it doesn't decrease the Research Cycle time (20 minutes) nor does it increase the Research Points per cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7v5N2oBoiQ
Did you wait until the next cycle when research points are awarded?
I just checked. From what I can tell, there is are weird discrepancies between the research points awarded per sector:

Lambda - Research Rate 97% - Research Points per cycle: 9 - Faster Research active
Thuruk's Pride - Research Rate 58% - Research Points per cycle: 5 - Faster Research active
Duke's Vision - Research Rate 68% - Research Points per cycle: 6 - Faster Research NOT active
Omicron Lyrae - Research Rate 48% - Research Points per cycle: 4 - Faster Research active
Preacher's Refuge - Research Rate 86% - Research Points per cycle: 8 - Faster Research active
Thyn's Excavation - Research Rate 77% - Research Points per cycle: 7 - Faster Research NOT active

I did another recording of the activation of the perk in Thyn's Excavation and let the SETA run for a while. There is no difference. And then I lost a miner to debris. This is a sad way to start the new day. :D

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwHq-UL-dw8
4square425 wrote:
Sun, 24. May 20, 06:29
I'm not exactly sure what the best tactics are for invading a sector. My ships enter the gate one at a time, so the enemy fleet is usually one top of them by the time my second or third ship emerges. I tried sending a decoy through a side gate, but that causes my fleet to form a long string instead of a better combat formation. Maybe send through a heavily shielded ship first or invest in carriers?
You can send in cheap M5s or a Buster Raider (best speed) to divert hostile forces. The Buster Raider is so ridiculously fast, it can bait the enemy through the entire sector without getting endangered if you micromanage it by "Move to Position". Carriers are generally a good idea to deploy stuff effectively, and a Boron Thresher is a relatively cheap tank. That being said, I'd go for diversion instead of tanking, as replacing a M4 or a bunch of M4s is way cheaper than a Thresher, although the Thresher adds nice DPS.

Alternatively, use a missile frigate like the Aquilo to move in first and launch Flails to get rid of the small ships first. That should buy you some time to get the fleet in.
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Betelgeuse97 » Sun, 24. May 20, 09:09

Edna wrote:
Sun, 24. May 20, 08:52
Betelgeuse97 wrote:
Sun, 24. May 20, 00:23
Edna wrote:
Sat, 23. May 20, 14:46
By the way, how does the 'Faster Research' perk work? As far as I can tell, it doesn't decrease the Research Cycle time (20 minutes) nor does it increase the Research Points per cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7v5N2oBoiQ
Did you wait until the next cycle when research points are awarded?
I just checked. From what I can tell, there is are weird discrepancies between the research points awarded per sector:

Lambda - Research Rate 97% - Research Points per cycle: 9 - Faster Research active
Thuruk's Pride - Research Rate 58% - Research Points per cycle: 5 - Faster Research active
Duke's Vision - Research Rate 68% - Research Points per cycle: 6 - Faster Research NOT active
Omicron Lyrae - Research Rate 48% - Research Points per cycle: 4 - Faster Research active
Preacher's Refuge - Research Rate 86% - Research Points per cycle: 8 - Faster Research active
Thyn's Excavation - Research Rate 77% - Research Points per cycle: 7 - Faster Research NOT active

I did another recording of the activation of the perk in Thyn's Excavation and let the SETA run for a while. There is no difference. And then I lost a miner to debris. This is a sad way to start the new day. :D

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwHq-UL-dw8
4square425 wrote:
Sun, 24. May 20, 06:29
I'm not exactly sure what the best tactics are for invading a sector. My ships enter the gate one at a time, so the enemy fleet is usually one top of them by the time my second or third ship emerges. I tried sending a decoy through a side gate, but that causes my fleet to form a long string instead of a better combat formation. Maybe send through a heavily shielded ship first or invest in carriers?
You can send in cheap M5s or a Buster Raider (best speed) to divert hostile forces. The Buster Raider is so ridiculously fast, it can bait the enemy through the entire sector without getting endangered if you micromanage it by "Move to Position". Carriers are generally a good idea to deploy stuff effectively, and a Boron Thresher is a relatively cheap tank. That being said, I'd go for diversion instead of tanking, as replacing a M4 or a bunch of M4s is way cheaper than a Thresher, although the Thresher adds nice DPS.

Alternatively, use a missile frigate like the Aquilo to move in first and launch Flails to get rid of the small ships first. That should buy you some time to get the fleet in.
Looks like you've found a bug with the research perk. Hope Joubarbe reads this.

Good tactic too. In OOS, can't you also send in multiple ships at once? Historically, big ships come in 1-by-1 as the gate is large enough to fit only one capital ship at a time. If you have the jump beacon, you can try use that to bypass the bottleneck caused by using gates, but I have yet to learn about Mayhem 3's jump beacons. If you're early-mid game, you can use the TL to tank (make sure to get its shields to the max as its starting shields are only a quarter of the maximum) and a lot of fighters to kill their fighters first before engaging their capitals.

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by Hector0x » Sun, 24. May 20, 17:11

The glorious combat and fleet scripts:
Youtube

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3 BETA 5 (Hotfix 2)

Post by djmidex » Mon, 25. May 20, 00:54

1. When i jump to Bad Debt sector, keyboard controls stop working, could it be mayhem bug? mouse control works, i can Alt+Tab to desktop, but in-game controls does not work. i Had this twice, both times there were enemies in the sector.
savegame+galaxy: https://yadi.sk/d/MzWYJykazVWmkA
2. Factions can conquer sectors with pirate base, ie not destroying it. is it ok? And they do not destroy pirate stations on their territory. it is odd, why should i do this for them?
3. Should "research bonus" perk increase sector stats? it does not.

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