Daylight savings time

[Falcrack]

I think the majority of people in the US would like the time switching to stop, and the only reason it has not happened yet is because people can't agree whether they want permanent standard time or permanent daylight savings time. Outside of this forum, I've yet to talk with someone who was in favor of keeping things the way they are, but plenty of differences in preference between the two time standards.

[fiksal]

I suppose every region may want a different solution.

As far as US, Canada goes, the law is that this was done to conserve energy in WW1 ish.

Since we know that's not happening, the most logical step to me, is to void this law on this goal alone.

Next step is to discuss the data behind changing time and its usefulness if any.

[alt3rn1ty]

For anyone in the UK, I dont think it matters at all whether the US/Canada change policy on DST.

Computer interactions would adapt easily.
Tourists may/may not dip in with adjusting to local time flying there (and vice versa).

I would say you do you, makes no odds to the rest of the world really.

As for how they come to the conclusion of whats best for the country .. Well, right now you guys cant decide between a potential alzheimers victim or an old narcissistic orange clown leading the country with personal business agendas and a criminal record, regardless of whats good for the country as a whole.

I dont hold much hope for something much less important as Daylight Saving Time. Your justice system needs an overhaul much more imminently.

[Falcrack]

As for how they come to the conclusion of whats best for the country .. Well, right now you guys cant decide between a potential alzheimers victim or an old narcissistic orange clown leading the country with personal business agendas and a criminal record, regardless of whats good for the country as a whole.

Are you talking about just one person? Cause I think you could accurately be talking about a single person here.

[Alan Phipps]

OK, we are straying off thread topic and into an area of generalisations and national denigrations now. Back on topic please. (Yes, I did get the intended ironies. )

[EGO_Aut]

I voted for permanent standard time, because at 12:00 lunchtime, the sun should have it highest peak - like it should be!

[linolafett]

I am also camp "pick one time". I picked standard time, but dont care that much about it.
The change of times is annoying to me, mostly because i am a bit tired for a day or two after the change to summer time.

When i was a kid walking in darkness to school in winter was normal as i had to leave the house at around 7 am, no time shuffling would have helped there.
Sunrise is at about 8 to 8:30 in the winter here.
School started at 8.

[Chips]

The reasons given in the UK were never anything to do with businesses. They related to road safety and schools, particularly in Scotland and the north of England.

Piffle paffle. It came into being in 1916. The reasons it was campaigned for are a bit of a legend Okay, there may be more reasons, but... it's still much more amusing than "road safety" because it was argued for wayyyyyyyyy before "road safety" was even a word. In 1920 there were an estimated 150,000 cars on the road, whereas in 1900 just 600. *Literally* not enough to make "road safety" a reason.

The great-great-grandfather of Coldplay’s lead singer, Chris Martin, published a leaflet entitled The Waste Of Daylight. As a keen golfer and horse rider, William Willett was eager to make the most of the daylight hours and campaigned for the rest of his life. Although his proposal was not a straightforward one; it involved moving the clocks forward by 80 minutes, in four separate increments of 20 minutes each Sunday at 2am.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/planet-ear ... cks-change

[CBJ]

I wasn't actually referring to the reason it was introduced, but rather to the reasons given for keeping it more recently. As far as I'm aware, the last time it was given serious consideration by politicians in the UK was in the 1970s, and road safety was very much a concern at that point.

The thing about Chris Martin may be true, but it sounds wonderfully like an urban myth.

[mr.WHO]

Can someone tell me if I'm reading this right (We have different naming convention in Poland)?


Standard time = Winter Season time?
Daylight Saving time = Summer Season time?

Or is it the other way around?

[EGO_Aut]

Can someone tell me if I'm reading this right (We have different naming convention in Poland)?


Standard time = Winter Season time?
Daylight Saving time = Summer Season time?

Or is it the other way around?

In Europe, and i think every where else, this should be right.

[alt3rn1ty]

I remember quite a lot of things, all to do with the Highway code, safety on our roads and children ..

.. But to be honest it all seems a bit selfish to the UK with regards to DST.

I remember before the Internet, every responsible parent would refer to the Highway code Book, it was available to buy in every Post Office in the UK, and I think at least one family member was expected to have a copy so as to inform the rest of the family the right ways to behave either as a potential Driver, or as a pedestrian.

In the UK there were things like the The Tufty Club being advertised on our early TV.
Later there were things like The Green Cross code, it was all like an educate the great unwashed about roads and the rules they should be following.

I dont know when this happened, but the Post office stopped being the source of the Highway code, it then went to the internet ..

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code

.. Since this became avaliable, most people/families it would seem just cant be arsed a) Reading it, b) Passing on the knowledge. A lot of single parent families these days in the UK probably dont even know it exists.

The Police in the UK are too far stretched as a force to be walking the streets and picking people up for Highway code offences (a lot of which these days are not considered as legally supportable), and so for example cars parking within 10 metres of a junction (because they restrict the visibility of cars driving up to the end of that junction) are rarely clamped down upon.
I remember my dad being shocked when he saw a car pulled up by a Policeman, because the car had gone 1 inch beyond the line at a Junction - These days the police would just drive past such a thing without batting an eyelid.

So even though the regulations and experiments on DST were primarily concerned with Schools and Childrens safety, these days I dont think anyone gives a shit, even the Police. Its all down to economy sadly. I wouldn't think its too far away before the reputation of a British Driving Licence owner is not so respected as it used to be. I think we still do have the best Driving Test regulations in the world, but I doubt that will be any argument in the future as to how we should adhere to DST.

I think I may have gone a bit off topic here, too much Gin, and too much seeing Driving offences in the UK and the gradual decrease in standards, but I think it is relevant.

[alt3rn1ty]

Note to self, put the keyboard away when having a large Gin.

[Alan Phipps]

... and don't drive either.

[fiksal]

whenever people disagree on why we are doing something and if we should even do it, I feel the law should be struck down. If we want to address a specific problem, then a new law needs to be voted in, replacing previous law, detailing the current specific problem.

if you want time change or specific time due to road safety - that's what people should vote for. That's the democratic way.

[CBJ]

if you want time change or specific time due to road safety - that's what people should vote for. That's the democratic way.

It's also a perfect demonstration of the major shortcoming of democracy, namely that the needs of a minority can be utterly ignored at the whim of a majority. In this case, let's say that the measure is vitally important for the safety of 8% of the population (a number picked because it happens to be the percentage of people in the UK who live in Scotland) but doesn't really affect the other 92%. The vote is a landslide, and the safety of the 8% is ignored. Obviously I've deliberately framed this in slightly exaggerated terms to make the point, but the point is still valid: not everything is best left to democracy.

All that being said, while I think DST makes sense in the UK, and possibly in Europe too, I can't really see the logic of why the US has DST given its geographical distribution.

[fiksal]

if you want time change or specific time due to road safety - that's what people should vote for. That's the democratic way.

It's also a perfect demonstration of the major shortcoming of democracy, namely that the needs of a minority can be utterly ignored at the whim of a majority.

It can, yes. Usually we have precedent of other laws that are related to this issue to fall back to. The important part is the law or a regulation should be explicitely addressing the problem, and targetting the situations where its is relevant.

It's easy to make a blanket law, it's harder to make a specific one addressing only the core of the issue. And that's what I am saying what we should aim for, the latter one.

The other approach in democracy is to have regions affected by the issue directly vote on these laws, and not have the votes from areas unaffected influence that. The region can be as small as it makes sense for that community. In other words, in the time zone issue, it doesnt make sense for a single large, georgraphically stretched region vote on time where the difference between the edges is too significant.

[Falcrack]

if you want time change or specific time due to road safety - that's what people should vote for. That's the democratic way.

It's also a perfect demonstration of the major shortcoming of democracy, namely that the needs of a minority can be utterly ignored at the whim of a majority. In this case, let's say that the measure is vitally important for the safety of 8% of the population (a number picked because it happens to be the percentage of people in the UK who live in Scotland) but doesn't really affect the other 92%. The vote is a landslide, and the safety of the 8% is ignored. Obviously I've deliberately framed this in slightly exaggerated terms to make the point, but the point is still valid: not everything is best left to democracy.

All that being said, while I think DST makes sense in the UK, and possibly in Europe too, I can't really see the logic of why the US has DST given its geographical distribution.

Ideally, in a democracy, the people are enlightened and intelligent enough that they can see beyond their own narrow self interests and also consider the needs of the minority. In a charitable, love thy neighbor as thyself sort of way. If the people as a whole lack these selfless, charitable traits, then democracy suffers. And you get people like Donald Trump being elected.

But an undemocratic system is not necessarily any better, since if a dictator lacks these traits, it will infect the whole of society. You still need good, wise people in government in order for proper government, and there is no guarantee of that, whether in a democracy or in a monarchy. But at least in a democracy, the people get the type of government that they by and large deserve, based on their collective attributes.

I don't mind the thread getting derailed slightly! But to get back on topic, I think there is already plenty of daylight in the evenings even with DST where I live, we don't need sunlight at 9:30 pm, but I do mind leaving for work in the dark. But I would prefer either standard or DST over the time switching.