Israel War

[chew-ie]

Civilian areas like refugee camps should be off-limits, no question.

Indeed.

The harm to innocents is just tragic. War is already harsh, and when it hits the most vulnerable, it's a stark reminder of how much work there is to do in terms of international law and protecting human rights.

Not only that - it's a reminder how much of a road is still ahead to teach every single human being the importance of respecting other humans lifes. That way we wouldn't have wars and we certainly wouldn't have humans being used as body shields.

[Observe]

Not only that - it's a reminder how much of a road is still ahead to teach every single human being the importance of respecting other humans lifes.

Not just human lives. I would add a quote from Mahatma Gandhi: "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated". Humans slaughter over 90 billion land animals each year. Until ALL life is valued higher for being alive than being dead, we are not going to value human life beyond our own selfish interests. I grew up in farming areas and the way I've seen animals treated, is far worse than the carnage we are seeing in the Middle East, Ukraine, or anywhere else.

[chew-ie]

Not just human lives. I would add a quote from Mahatma Gandhi: "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated".

Indeed as well. But that goal might be a bit too high for most of todays people - as it'd involve changing diet, clothes and other goods [drastically]. (myself included, despite being 70-80% vegan in terms of food)

But at least I'm surrounded by people who don't have killed others.

I grew up in farming areas and the way I've seen animals treated, is far worse than the carnage we are seeing in the Middle East, Ukraine, or anywhere else.

Same / similar background. I wouldn't say it's worse then seeing the carnage of human lifes these days (matter of pov) - but I also had to witnessed animals being killed by very brutal means (e.g. sledgehammers) only because they weren't fit for their role [as food].

[Alan Phipps]

Back onto thread topic please.

[clakclak]

Possible tensions between Germany and Israel ahead. A team of German public broadcaster ARD (specifically the BR subsidiary) was stopped and threatened with guns by IDF soldiers after conducting interviews on settler violence in the Westbank. They were then asked if they were jewish and a member of the team, who apparently was jewish, was consequently called a traitor by the soldiers.

Link in German: https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/asien ... n-100.html

What is the ARD?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARD_(broadcaster)

[Warenwolf]

Possible tensions between Germany and Israel ahead. A team of German public broadcaster ARD (specifically the BR subsidiary) was stopped and threatened with guns by IDF soldiers after conducting interviews on settler violence in the Westbank. They were then asked if they were jewish and a member of the team, who apparently was jewish, was consequently called a traitor by the soldiers.

That ain't gonna happen. This will be a short notice in most news services, forgotten about in a week. Maybe some official would "express some concern". The official policy of Germany is that they have special responsibility towards assisting Israel and that is it.

[clakclak]

Possible tensions between Germany and Israel ahead. A team of German public broadcaster ARD (specifically the BR subsidiary) was stopped and threatened with guns by IDF soldiers after conducting interviews on settler violence in the Westbank. They were then asked if they were jewish and a member of the team, who apparently was jewish, was consequently called a traitor by the soldiers.

That ain't gonna happen. This will be a short notice in most news services, forgotten about in a week. Maybe some official would "express some concern". The official policy of Germany is that they have special responsibility towards assisting Israel and that is it.

Yes, it seems as if you are right.

[mr.WHO]

I don't know why, but despite this clearly reducing civilian casualties, it reads like Hollywood villain/hostage story:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079

[notaterran]

Israel hits a refugee camp, does this qualify as a war crime?

Link

[burger1]

Iran/Yemen seize a ship they considered was Israeli.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/galaxy-le ... -1.7034135

Gazans previously told to evacuate Northern Gaza apparently told to evacuate Southern Gaza while Northern Gaza is currently surrounded.

[burger1]

US forces stopped another ship from being taken. Yemen fired a couple ballistic missiles at the US warship.

U.S. officials said it was responding to a commercial cargo ship that was seized. Two hours later the missiles were fired and landed about ten miles from the ship in the Gulf of Aden.

https://news.yahoo.com/two-missiles-fir ... 19907.html

[EGO_Aut]

US forces stopped another ship from being taken. Yemen fired a couple ballistic missiles at the US warship.

U.S. officials said it was responding to a commercial cargo ship that was seized. Two hours later the missiles were fired and landed about ten miles from the ship in the Gulf of Aden.

https://news.yahoo.com/two-missiles-fir ... 19907.html

I would not call this,"....fired a couple ballistic missiles at the US warship.". Because it,".....landed about ten miles from the ship in the Gulf of Aden."

[clakclak]

I wonder what consequences the fact that Israel knew about the attack plans a year ago will have for the current government. Obviously blame for the attack still lies fully on Hamas, but if I was an Israeli citizen and learned that my own government knew about what was coming and, for whatever reason, failed to act on it I'd be more than a bit crossed right about now.

[fiksal]

I wonder what consequences the fact that Israel knew about the attack plans a year ago will have for the current government. Obviously blame for the attack still lies fully on Hamas, but if I was an Israeli citizen and learned that my own government knew about what was coming and, for whatever reason, failed to act on it I'd be more than a bit crossed right about now.

I wouldnt go conspiracy route, but I'd say incompetence should be prosecuted as well, assuming there's a strong proof

Also can you access the article? I could read a small snippet of it

[mr.WHO]

I couldn't read the article - but there need to be specified what "knew" means.

After the terrorist attack, there was a news that Egypt warned Israel about attack, but it might be as well something vague like "Hamas is preparing some kind of attack".

Such vague statemets could be dismissed as "Hamas is always preparing something", so basically secret service the boy who cried wolf.


However, if it was something specific, like "check this Hamas cell" or "attack is sheduled for this specific holiday", then it's completely different story - if Israel would ignore or dismiss something like that, then it's criminal negligence.

[chew-ie]

While solving that question - if true - would hopefully resolve the Netanyahu situation once & for all, it IMHO doesn't matter much right now.

There was someone attacking Israel and both obducting and killing obdacted people. That's what the army is right now taking care of.

[clakclak]

I wonder what consequences the fact that Israel knew about the attack plans a year ago will have for the current government. Obviously blame for the attack still lies fully on Hamas, but if I was an Israeli citizen and learned that my own government knew about what was coming and, for whatever reason, failed to act on it I'd be more than a bit crossed right about now.

I wouldnt go conspiracy route, but I'd say incompetence should be prosecuted as well, assuming there's a strong proof

Also can you access the article? I could read a small snippet of it

I couldn't read the article - but there need to be specified what "knew" means.

After the terrorist attack, there was a news that Egypt warned Israel about attack, but it might be as well something vague like "Hamas is preparing some kind of attack".

Such vague statemets could be dismissed as "Hamas is always preparing something", so basically secret service the boy who cried wolf.


However, if it was something specific, like "check this Hamas cell" or "attack is sheduled for this specific holiday", then it's completely different story - if Israel would ignore or dismiss something like that, then it's criminal negligence.

As I am not entirely sure about the legality of copying an entirely paywalled article in here, I will give you keynotes with some added quotes from the article:

- Israeli intellegence had a 40 page Hamas document they (Israel) codenamed "Jericho Wall".

- Quote from the article: "The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters."

- "Jericho Wall" was, over all, the attack we saw on Oct. 7.

- Quote from the article: "Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7. The plan also included details about the location and size of Israeli military forces, communication hubs and other sensitive information, raising questions about how Hamas gathered its intelligence and whether there were leaks inside the Israeli security establishment. The document circulated widely among Israeli military and intelligence leaders, but experts determined that an attack of that scale and ambition was beyond Hamas’s capabilities, according to documents and officials. It is unclear whether Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or other top political leaders saw the document, as well."

- A senior Israeli intellegence veteran analyst with Unit 8200 was very concerned about the plan before it was enacted

- Her concerns were however dismissed

- Quote from the article: "On July 6, 2023, the veteran Unit 8200 analyst wrote to a group of other intelligence experts that dozens of Hamas commandos had recently conducted training exercises, with senior Hamas commanders observing.
The training included a dry run of shooting down Israeli aircraft and taking over a kibbutz and a military training base, killing all the cadets. During the exercise, Hamas fighters used the same phrase from the Quran that appeared at the top of the Jericho Wall attack plan [a very specific verse], she wrote in the email exchanges viewed by The Times.
The analyst warned that the drill closely followed the Jericho Wall plan, and that Hamas was building the capacity to carry it out."

Edited a bunch of times to make it more readable use quotes that carry the more important bits of the article.

If you want to read the entire article for yourself, I am afraid you will have to find a way to access it.

[mr.WHO]

OK, these details seem very specific, so all politicians, military and inteligence personel who dismissed it should be kicked out at best or beign criminally charged at worst.

[burger1]

More ships attacked with drones and missiles including a US destroyer. Some ships were hit with drones/missiles and might sink?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... from-yemen

[fiksal]

so that's agreed act of war?

.

If you want to read the entire article for yourself, I am afraid you will have to find a way to access it.

Thanks, that helps!