human factor (or lack thereof) in x2 "universe"

Post by **kuertee** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 08:10

i'm a mature games player (32 y.o.) and i'd like comments about the lack of "human factor" (people factor so to include the other races) in this game. i've had this game for a good 2-3 years now and so i'm not a "newbie" at it - i've given it a good go.

here are some examples of what i mean by lack-of "people factor":

1. you pick up a passenger but don't manage to get him to his destination on time. he complains about this - and is not heard from again. where'd he go? did walk out of an airlock in space? it could be be assumed that he jumps out of your ship at his first available moment (at your next stop - wherever that is). but a small message that he did so would complete the "believability" of the world. if i remember correctly - in elite frontiers, the passengers stay on your jobs list until you deliver them to their correct destination.

2. in larger starships, where are the crew members? is julian that good a pilot that he doesn't need a crew. again - in elite frontiers, you had to hire crew members and "buy" cabin extensions for them before you can lift-off.

3. ditto re: factories.

now, after 2-3 years of this game - i'm still trying to "get into it". i can't get pass these types of details.

how does other mature-aged players think through these types of "gaps" for an enjoyable game? and what other "gaps" exists?

re: Artificial Life engine (seems like a random number of ships "to-ing and fro-ing" between stations/systems).

(i better stop before i rant about the dynamics of a solar "system" - it took me a long while to accept x2's static "space-station-world".)

here's hoping x3 is not just a visual and item-acquisition upgrade to x2's gameplay.

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 08:16

The thing that gets me past little inconsistencies like that is purely the fact that it IS a game, not reality. If I were to let things bug me the fixed top speed in space and dodgy astrophysics (e.g. the planets in Three Worlds are way too close together to be stable) would be more of a problem to me than the lack of people.

Oh, and as for #3, factories are supposed to be completely automated, so the lack of people onboard isn't that surprising!

Tigerhawk71 · Post by **Tigerhawk71** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 08:24

i agree in a way. i'd love to have a little life in my stations. The only life besides me is my company icon because it's of my girlfriend.

Hire pilots or crew to give things life would be cool.... the problem with that is, i'd have to pay them

Scarecrow · Post by **Scarecrow** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 17:17

** Oh, and as for #3, factories are supposed to be completely automated, so the lack of people onboard isn't that surprising! **

....so who the hell is eating all those cahoonas then?

mintydog · Post by **mintydog** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 17:32

" did walk out of an airlock in space?"
He sure did, he said he could space walk quicker so i assumed thats what he did

but to be honest i find that annoying and insulting, you should be able to get your own back

The_Hypo · Post by **The_Hypo** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 17:35

Scarecrow wrote:** Oh, and as for #3, factories are supposed to be completely automated, so the lack of people onboard isn't that surprising! **

....so who the hell is eating all those cahoonas then?

space rats!

bye

Pcorn · Post by **Pcorn** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 17:54

I always assumed that when the guy complained and gave you that insulting reply YOU automatically ejected him from the ship so he could flag down something faster. (always assuming he has a spacesuit on of course

)

As for the rest, it honestly doesn't bother me.

Think about it. As games become more advanced and more 'real' the audience also seems to be evolving, and gamers find it far easier to spot these subtle holes in the artificial reality. But these very same gamers wouldn't dream of questioning the dynamics of Space Invaders!

I personally don't notice these flaws. Perhaps I'm too busy thinking about my game and strategy to notice this kind of stuff, or perhaps I'm just not very observant but I just look straight through this kind of thing. For instance, I never thought anything of the lack of radio chatter until people here mentioned it would be nice to have some to 'improve the realism'.

The only thing I was narked about with the comm system is that you don't seem able to demand pirates surrender in the same way you can demand it of normal ships. They just ignore you, even if you're flying a great big bloody Titan!

THAT for me is a lack of reality, because if I'M in a ship and a capital starship starts tailgating and hailing me, I'd bloody well reply.

But like I said, for the most part I don't notice. I'm too busy setting up stations, buying ships, capping and shooting Khaak and Xenon.

I've been playing computer games for at least 20 years, and the only games I have problems with are games that have poor gameplay. If a game doesn't grab and addict you then THAT is when you can honestly say it has failed as a game. Everything else is just nitpicking.

PowerPC603 · Post by **PowerPC603** » Sun, 17. Apr 05, 23:48

in larger starships, where are the crew members? is julian that good a pilot that he doesn't need a crew. again - in elite frontiers, you had to hire crew members and "buy" cabin extensions for them before you can lift-off.

Actually those cabins were not needed for your crew, they were needed for passengers (they are called "passenger cabins").

But this would be nice to have in X3.
Now you buy 10 ships at a time and just fly off.
Then, before you could use them, you need to find crew for them.

Don't worry about the payment for them.
In Elite, it was only between 5 and 20 credits per week you had to pay them.
If you're making about 1.000.000 credits per hour, then you can afford crew easily.

fchopin · Post by **fchopin** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 00:06

@Kuertee

I agree with some of your comments but I think there are other more important issues that egosoft have to correct first.

First the story has to be at least 10 times bigger, second there has to be a reason for the player to make money and build a fleet, thirdly we need to be able to explore in X3, which means more secrets to discover more sectors and new unique items.

Apoch · Post by **Apoch** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 02:22

Fortunately, there's a very excellent alternative to X² that has every detail you could ever want. When I get sick of suspending my disbelief and glossing over the lack of mundane yet realistic minutiae, I go to work and do my job. It doesn't take very long to get utterly sick of realistic details.

Personally, I can't understand why it seems to be the "mature gamer" crowd that's always worried about realism. I'm bloody thankful to get away from micromanaging dozens of stupid little things just so I can afford my next meal. Realism may be real, but for the bulk of real life, reality isn't fun.

Lazerath · Post by **Lazerath** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 02:54

LoL.. Apoch.. don't be so synical... Real life rocks..

Who in their right mind wouldn't want a game thats completely real. Just look at a few possibilities it would offer..

Get up in the morning. Kids are argueing, wife is making out with the milkman and the paper boy threw your paper in a puddle of water (caused by your sprinkler).

You eat, take your rats to school and go to work. Spend 8-14 hours at work and come home to a house in termoil, your wife making out with the cable man...errr... milkman I mean and you have an ulcer!

Omg, who wouldn't buy a game like that.. Just think of the money you could make off of producing that game.. oh, and your target market would be.. hmmmm Women.. and you could call the game.. The Sims... and.. oh crap.. wait! There is a game like that already!! (Only chicks play The Sims)

Yup, I have to agree with Apoch on this one!

|M| · Post by **|M|** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 02:56

lazerath wrote:(Only chicks play The Sims)

Chicks and me then.

Lazerath · Post by **Lazerath** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 02:59

Ouch

Sorry bud.. I never new men played that game (listen to chicks talk about it all the time though..) My bad or is it your bad?

Mercz · Post by **Mercz** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 07:05

I wouldn't mind having some crew on my ships and stations. Maybe you could get some that would take care of all the business and such on your stations and some on your cap ships responsable for reloading and such, so that you don't always have to be hitting a ton of hotkeys on the keyboard to fix everything.

rustybucket · Post by **rustybucket** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 08:50

in elite frontiers, you had to hire crew members and "buy" cabin extensions for them before you can lift-off.

It has been a very long time sine I have played Elite Frontiers. IIRC that game had a single ship story line. If you try to maintain a crew and deal with those issues in a game with hundreds of player owned stations and ships, it would become a very time consuming exercise. You would have to set up an HR department to deal with your 20,000 crew members!

Tragos · Post by **Tragos** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 09:44

Big starships without ppl inside are lonely and look bad except the xenon destroyer that it is like a bicycle. Also there is no COM between AI ships , you can be argon hero and none will ever great you unless it is for contraband (good reason to reply "come and take it" when asked to drop your space fuel),on the other hand i dont think my card (32MB gf2) can hundle moving crew in TL cocpit while flying through a nebula.
I dont agree with the "static" thing, if you think X2 is static try freelancer ...
Im all for adding a buletin board to player owned stations AND place special prices on tool shop too.

DurAlvar · Post by **DurAlvar** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 10:01

Bah, screw realism, I can only take so much of it. Seriously, once realism takes over a game ceases to become fun. For example, take a perfectly-realistic fps... we're talking weeks of waiting round interspaced by a few minutes of intense shooting in which your more then likely going to get killed, and in that event the pc should erase your save so that you hav to start again... GO REALISM!!

The_Hypo · Post by **The_Hypo** » Mon, 18. Apr 05, 19:10

DurAlvar wrote:Bah, screw realism, I can only take so much of it. Seriously, once realism takes over a game ceases to become fun. For example, take a perfectly-realistic fps... we're talking weeks of waiting round interspaced by a few minutes of intense shooting in which your more then likely going to get killed, and in that event the pc should erase your save so that you hav to start again... GO REALISM!!

Why cant everyone think like this?

I play games to escape reality not to make another one.

bye

tphater · Post by **tphater** » Tue, 19. Apr 05, 09:07

Smart statements.The game would not be games if they were suffering for two much reality.They would be more like simulators(the ones that test vehicules/ships...) and that would realy su...
Too much realism will kill the game,any game.

SteveMill · Post by **SteveMill** » Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:25

rustybucket wrote:in elite frontiers, you had to hire crew members and "buy" cabin extensions for them before you can lift-off.

It has been a very long time sine I have played Elite Frontiers. IIRC that game had a single ship story line. If you try to maintain a crew and deal with those issues in a game with hundreds of player owned stations and ships, it would become a very time consuming exercise. You would have to set up an HR department to deal with your 20,000 crew members!

You prefer chasing Troop Transporters all over the universe just to recruit a couple of crew when a destroyer needs dozens as in X2? It'll take hours if not days of real-time playing to crew up just a couple of cap ships.

My Ideal Space-Sim would have the sort of AI found in the more strategic games where solar colonies and cities can be left to a 'governer' who follows your general instructions.

This is something the X games need. I'd love to be able to appoint a governer in charge of an Equipment Dock with standing instructions to organise the equipping of new ships according to a template. That would include hiring crew.

I spend way too much of my time manually installing jump drives, picking up weapons and shields from factories etc etc.

I'm finding that as my corporate empire expands, along with the territory I need to garrison and trade routes that have to be protected, I spend most of my time 'behind a desk'. An Assistant to take care of some of the mundane stuff would be nice.

Being able to recruit NPC's with ability bonuses like gunnery or management would add flavour to the universe too.

egosoft.com

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human factor (or lack thereof) in x2 "universe"

human factor (or lack thereof) in x2 "universe"

Re: human factor (or lack thereof) in x2 "universe"