If Boron can use old TER equipment, then why not allow them access to all COP equipment as well?

[flywlyx]

Based on the current feedback from 8.0:
viewtopic.php?t=471769
viewtopic.php?t=471765
It seems that old TER ships can now equip BOR weapons, and vice versa—BOR ships can use old TER weapons too.
I believe the original argument was that the Boron are unique for using living weapons, which is why they couldn’t use other factions’ equipment, while the old TER relied on outdated standards no longer in use. I didn’t like the limitation, but the reasoning was solid enough that I accepted it. However, this new change completely disregards that logic, making the restriction feel entirely unjustified.
I’d rather see the restriction removed entirely, allowing weapons and turret mounts to be freely interchangeable.

[Raptor34]

Agreed, and I liked the restriction.
But them being able to run Timelines equipment is just really odd. I'll rather that instead TL ships get access to all other equipment instead. That would give them some more uniqueness.
Actually, is it only BOR/TL? I was planning to ask whether TL equipment is now available for all other factions.

[LameFox]

Maybe they are moving towards that? Equipment used to be (relatively) interchangeable after all, I think the issue they had with these is that they decided half way through a released game to make the weapons smaller. But there are ways around it.

[adeine]

Regarding weapon compatibility, in a sense I think it's kind of a solved problem already. Back in X3 the ships had turrets visible on them. They were just part of the ship as far as I could tell. You could slot in any weapon the ship could hold there, and it just made those turrets fire a new projectile.

So, in this case suppose you make a set of weapon/turret types for each race—this is mostly done already. They have one with a multi-barrel, one with a missile tube, one with a laser, et cetera et cetera. And when you slot in another race's weapon, it uses the ship race's appropriate *type* of model, but fires the projectile from the equipped race's weapon. In that way you can maintain the customization options in the game while also using the new system. Maybe it would even let you unify the new and old systems.

^ To bring it back to dev attention: One good way around it.

[vvvvvvvv]

I’d rather see the restriction removed entirely, allowing weapons and turret mounts to be freely interchangeable.

I think there was a talk abut design philosophy in models, which, I think resulted in models being different sizes. Basically old commonwealth weapons were huge and perhaps wouldn't physically fit. Well, you can just jam them, but there will be gaps. Which is... somewhat valid reason, as to make weapons compatible, you'd need different models. Timelines have non-standard sized turrets, just like boron ships, maybe that's why they were made compatible.

I do no feel strongly about preserving incompatibility and would like to be able able to equip everything everywhere. But maybe there should be a "compatibility research" first? Also not strictly necessary.

[Ragnos28]

Hmm..Egosoft is not known to modify/add new features to DLCs after launch...
Seem strange that you would need a DLC (Timelines) to make better use of another DLC (Kingdom End).
Maybe Timelines sold so poorly (only 41% positive reviews on Steam) that they decided to give it a boost...all about the green, I guess...

PS: I still don't intend to buy Timelines

[LameFox]

I mean... you can also install Split weapons and turrets on Terran ships, and Terran turrets (but few weapons) on Split ships. I doubt it's about Timelines specifically but rather those ships, both using the newer weapon scale, were easier to do it with.

[Falcrack]

I think Egosoft should revisit their design choice of not allowing Boron equipment on non Boron ships, and vice versa.

[Ragnos28]

I mean... you can also install Split weapons and turrets on Terran ships, and Terran turrets (but few weapons) on Split ships. I doubt it's about Timelines specifically but rather those ships, both using the newer weapon scale, were easier to do it with.

Yes, but that was a feature already available at launch for both split and terran DLC, was not something added after. And you can swap tech with all races (except boron), don't need a specific DLC to be able to do it, see the meta of putting argon M flak and paranid L plasma on terran destroyers, available from the get go. Was not something like...after you buy CoH, you must buy the X DLC to be able to use argon tech on terran ships...

[Ragnos28]

I think Egosoft should revisit their design choice of not allowing Boron equipment on non Boron ships, and vice versa.

I think the Hydra would look rather strange with split engines... or the Baracuda...

[flywlyx]

Regarding weapon compatibility, in a sense I think it's kind of a solved problem already. Back in X3 the ships had turrets visible on them. They were just part of the ship as far as I could tell. You could slot in any weapon the ship could hold there, and it just made those turrets fire a new projectile.

So, in this case suppose you make a set of weapon/turret types for each race—this is mostly done already. They have one with a multi-barrel, one with a missile tube, one with a laser, et cetera et cetera. And when you slot in another race's weapon, it uses the ship race's appropriate *type* of model, but fires the projectile from the equipped race's weapon. In that way you can maintain the customization options in the game while also using the new system. Maybe it would even let you unify the new and old systems.

^ To bring it back to dev attention: One good way around it.

No doubt this is the best solution—X3 made some solid design choices that still make more sense than what we see in X4. I've always been bothered by how out-of-place turrets look on ships from other factions, and the fact that paint jobs don't apply to turrets just makes it worse.

[linolafett]

Boron and timeline ships are made with a new art design philosophy in mind - smaller surface elements.
These are just not compatible with the other "old" designed ships, the old weapons are too large to be mounted on the new ships.

With the current change in the beta we at least start to allow interchanging the new weapons in the new ships.
Of course i would love to make all weapons interchangeably used, but that will require me rebuilding all the old weapons in a smaller size.
One can dream...

[adeine]

Boron and timeline ships are made with a new art design philosophy in mind - smaller surface elements.
These are just not compatible with the other "old" designed ships, the old weapons are too large to be mounted on the new ships.

With the current change in the beta we at least start to allow interchanging the new weapons in the new ships.
Of course i would love to make all weapons interchangeably used, but that will require me rebuilding all the old weapons in a smaller size.
One can dream...

Read LameFox's suggestion I quoted a couple posts above. It is a simple, elegant solution with minimal extra dev work.

[solardawning]

Boron and timeline ships are made with a new art design philosophy in mind - smaller surface elements.
These are just not compatible with the other "old" designed ships, the old weapons are too large to be mounted on the new ships.

With the current change in the beta we at least start to allow interchanging the new weapons in the new ships.
Of course i would love to make all weapons interchangeably used, but that will require me rebuilding all the old weapons in a smaller size.
One can dream...

I appreciate you. You are good, and you should feel good!

[Ragnos28]

So, no chance to make Baracuda faster...
Is about all I would change in boron ships, that and some L turret for the Ray that would have dmg close to plasma, so the boron could perform station demolition w/o spamming 20 or so Rays...

[S!rAssassin]

So, no chance to make Baracuda faster...
Is about all I would change in boron ships, that and some L turret for the Ray that would have dmg close to plasma, so the boron could perform station demolition w/o spamming 20 or so Rays...

Brand new large and powerful Electromagnetic Turret? With quest to find it's blueprint in deep space?

Seriously, Borons needs to more firepower for destroyers...

[vvvvvvvv]

Boron and timeline ships are made with a new art design philosophy in mind - smaller surface elements.
These are just not compatible with the other "old" designed ships, the old weapons are too large to be mounted on the new ships.

With the current change in the beta we at least start to allow interchanging the new weapons in the new ships.
Of course i would love to make all weapons interchangeably used, but that will require me rebuilding all the old weapons in a smaller size.
One can dream...

Maybe there can be a long term task for adding "new" size variants of the old weapons? "Alt" or "V2" weapons, basically. Or some sort of size adaptor research. I mean likely in many cases weapon or shield likely can be scaled down during placement.

[Caedes91]

Of course i would love to make all weapons interchangeably used, but that will require me rebuilding all the old weapons in a smaller size.
One can dream...

Not necessary, the vast majority of the weapon selection are useless anyway. Just port only at least Terran Pulse, Terran Proton Barrage, Meson Stream, Plasma and beam.
It seems so stupid, that Terran fighters can not use terran weapons. So much for "modularity"

I still have not forgotten, how during the release of the Kindom End DLC you said, that Borons cannot use CW weapons, because of their unique ship tech (water ships etc.)
This is evidently not the case, because in reality it was a technical limitation and not a lore reason.

[flywlyx]

Boron and timeline ships are made with a new art design philosophy in mind - smaller surface elements.
These are just not compatible with the other "old" designed ships, the old weapons are too large to be mounted on the new ships.

With the current change in the beta we at least start to allow interchanging the new weapons in the new ships.
Of course i would love to make all weapons interchangeably used, but that will require me rebuilding all the old weapons in a smaller size.
One can dream...

I really like the new design approach, especially the hidden turrets—it’s a perfect solution to the issues I had with the turret paint mod. It’s just a pity that capital ships still suffer from this problem.

[Uwe Poppel]

Boron and timeline ships are made with a new art design philosophy in mind - smaller surface elements.
These are just not compatible with the other "old" designed ships, the old weapons are too large to be mounted on the new ships.

With the current change in the beta we at least start to allow interchanging the new weapons in the new ships.
Of course i would love to make all weapons interchangeably used, but that will require me rebuilding all the old weapons in a smaller size.
One can dream...

Some of the “old” Timelines Terran weapons are comparable to those from older X games (X-BtF to X3). A reference to the old weapon names in the in-game encyclopedia would really be desirable!