[FeatureRequest/Proposal] AI L ship movement through gates.

[vvvvvvvv]

Currently when AI controlled L ship approaches a gate, instead of flying through it, it stops and plays "jump" animation from Rebirth, then it is being teleported on the other side oft he gate. Somewhere next to it.

As far as I understand this was done around 7.10 to prevent collisions at the gates.

Problem:
This mechanic prevents AI controlled L ships from building up movement speed, because every jump resets ship speed to zero. Several travel engines have very long countdown, and this probably hurts paranid engines the most. They have very high speed, but in AI hands the only scenario where they can use it is running in cirlces in Nopileos Fortune II. This doesn't affect player-controlled L ships, but cripples AI L ships.

Proposal:
Make L ships stop and teleport only when the gate is congested, otherwise fly through. "Congested" could mean multiple large ships heading through while in vicinity.

[BitByte]

L/XL ships teleportation through gates/accelerators came in 5.x.

[Jar B]

Not only does it hurt performance, it breaks immersion big time. Keeps bugging me ever since it got patched in.

[jlehtone]

This doesn't affect player-controlled L ships, but cripples AI L ships.

The "same rules for all" Party would remove the "unfair and unjustified feature" from the player-controlled ship. We do not vote for that party.

L/XL ships teleportation through gates/accelerators came in 5.x.

And before that the large ships did fly to the "back-side" of the Gate and enter the Gate from there, slowly. The rationale was that there could be simultaneously ships entering and existing the Gate, since they were on different side of it. Alas, that dance (with good intentions) was slow.

Proposal:
Make L ships stop and teleport only when the gate is congested, otherwise fly through. "Congested" could mean multiple large ships heading through while in vicinity.

As you notice from above, the AI ships have always slowed down to standstill at each Gate, even before 5.x.


I must admit that enemy fleets traveling/phasing through all the intricate "Gate Defence Death Trap" barricade stations that some players frequently post could provide short amusement for us, who do not waste time on such hobbies.

[vvvvvvvv]

And before that the large ships did fly to the "back-side" of the Gate and enter the Gate from there, slowly. The rationale was that there

A better approach would be that outgoing ships target upper half of the gate and incoming ships appear at lower half of the gate. This was done with highways. Incoming lane vs outgoing lane.

[Raptor34]

I'll rather they teleport and keep momentum tbh.
You'll even get a nice explanation for why people don't just camp gates. It doesn't work when capitals just drop out somewhere at max speed!

[vvvvvvvv]

You'll even get a nice explanation for why people don't just camp gates. It doesn't work when capitals just drop out somewhere at max speed!

You know, it reminds me of one station in ZYA sectors. It is set dead center in front of a gate, meaning a player flying at full speed is gonna smash into it while teleporting NPCs will be fine. Especially if it is an L ship.
"Split is wise and knows many things, Split set up clever trap". Or something.

"Teleport with moment preservation" to me doesn't sound right. It feels like momentum being preserved through gate makes sense, while being preserved after teleportation it doesn't.

Oh, which reminds me. Superhighways break travel drive unlike gates. Makes them extra annoying.

[BitByte]

L/XL ships teleportation through gates/accelerators came in 5.x.

And before that the large ships did fly to the "back-side" of the Gate and enter the Gate from there, slowly. The rationale was that there could be simultaneously ships entering and existing the Gate, since they were on different side of it. Alas, that dance (with good intentions) was slow.

In 3.x they still flied through from front and I remember there was huge traffic jams near busy superhighways (in my game 1 of them was Black Hole Sun IV <-> Black Hole Sun V superhighway). That was excellent spot for boarding piracy

Oh, which reminds me. Superhighways break travel drive unlike gates. Makes them extra annoying.

Yes but you can use that also advantage as if you activate travel drive while still "overspeeding" (flying faster than ship max travel speed) it will engage travel mode faster and loss of speed is smaller.

[Raptor34]

You'll even get a nice explanation for why people don't just camp gates. It doesn't work when capitals just drop out somewhere at max speed!

You know, it reminds me of one station in ZYA sectors. It is set dead center in front of a gate, meaning a player flying at full speed is gonna smash into it while teleporting NPCs will be fine. Especially if it is an L ship.
"Split is wise and knows many things, Split set up clever trap". Or something.

"Teleport with moment preservation" to me doesn't sound right. It feels like momentum being preserved through gate makes sense, while being preserved after teleportation it doesn't.

Oh, which reminds me. Superhighways break travel drive unlike gates. Makes them extra annoying.

Just tweak the visual, ships keeping momentum entering and exiting FTL is standard across most sci-fi afaict.
If a ship flies in fast, what is teleporting but the main gate opening a mini gate for the capital?
If done well it could even be a thing expanded on in the next game too. Where you can say comm a friendly controlled gate to open a mini gate for you. It has a lot of potential now that I think about it.

[vvvvvvvv]

Just tweak the visual, ships keeping momentum entering and exiting FTL is standard across most sci-fi afaict.

I believe startrek freezes items in place while beaming. Or it used to work this way in some episodes. The root issue:
Gate --> Wormhole. Makes sense to retain momentum.
Teleport --> Beaming. Doesn't make sense to keep momentum.

If a ship flies in fast, what is teleporting but the main gate opening a mini gate for the capital?

If a dark or reflective sphere of warped spacetime spawns and ship flies through it while arriving from similar sphere at the same time on the other side, it would justify preservation of momentum, yes. But I'd rather prefer gates worked normally. Because it is spawning portals. It sort of does not fit well into lore of X. IMO. What's the point of even making it a gate if it teleport ships remotely.

[adeine]

Not only does it hurt performance, it breaks immersion big time. Keeps bugging me ever since it got patched in.

Same. It's a kludge that leads to more problems, especially given that the feature is not accessible to the player.

[Raptor34]

Just tweak the visual, ships keeping momentum entering and exiting FTL is standard across most sci-fi afaict.

I believe startrek freezes items in place while beaming. Or it used to work this way in some episodes. The root issue:
Gate --> Wormhole. Makes sense to retain momentum.
Teleport --> Beaming. Doesn't make sense to keep momentum.

If a ship flies in fast, what is teleporting but the main gate opening a mini gate for the capital?

If a dark or reflective sphere of warped spacetime spawns and ship flies through it while arriving from similar sphere at the same time on the other side, it would justify preservation of momentum, yes. But I'd rather prefer gates worked normally. Because it is spawning portals. It sort of does not fit well into lore of X. IMO. What's the point of even making it a gate if it teleport ships remotely.

By that logic JDs are also lore breaking.
Upgrades happens, so clearly the ancients seeing the massive traffic jams caused by the increased strength of the economy, deploys new gates that are now able to project out mini gates temporarily for others to travel through. Unfortunately these gates are a little less stable and therefore only the bigger ships are able to travail them safely.

[vvvvvvvv]

By that logic JDs are also lore breaking.

Player does not have access to jumpdrive in X4. Rebirth Jumpdrive required a full stop.

[Raptor34]

By that logic JDs are also lore breaking.

Player does not have access to jumpdrive in X4. Rebirth Jumpdrive required a full stop.

You're just weakening your point imo.
That just shows that technology changes over games since previous versions allowed you to jump at speed.

[vvvvvvvv]

You're just

Uh, I'm not debating in the first place. In the sense, I'm not looking for "the most logical explanation", because infinite arguments can be made for either approach, so it won't get anywhere. Also this isn't really related to the opening post anymore, is it.

My position makes sense to me and that's good enough. The position is that preservation of velocity makes sense for wormholes, but not teleportation, but I'd rather have gates work as gates and not mobile teleportation station that spawns portals, because if they work as teleport station, they don't need to be gates. Could be some pylon and that would be a very different game in a different universe.

[jlehtone]

before the large ships did fly to the "back-side" of the Gate and enter the Gate from there

A better approach would be that outgoing ships target upper half of the gate and incoming ships appear at lower half of the gate.

That is what the small ships do (or at least used to do in X3 games). The big ships have aimed for the centre. Is there enough room for the largest ships to fit two simultaneously?

Uh, I'm not debating in the first place.

True. Do you have two points:
A) It would look more that Gates are really used, if (all) ships would fly to/from Gates
B) Preservation of velocity (in Gate) should be same for all travellers


The intra-sector local highways do take control of the ships speed. Why should inter-sector highways behave differently?

[vvvvvvvv]

Is there enough room for the largest ships to fit two simultaneously?

Yes.




This is asgard. One of the largest ships in the game. Station connector size is 400 meters.
So outer gate diameter is 4 kilometers, while inner is 3.2.
Asgard is 3.2 kilometers long and about 800 meters wide. It is possible to fit at least two of them into the gate, and potentially four.

The intra-sector local highways do take control of the ships speed. Why should inter-sector highways behave differently?

They should behave difficulty because they disrupt player movement for L ships. Having to fly one if you're flying at high speed is unpleasant. It disrupts travel drive and causes velocity loss.

Regarding local highways, I wouldn't mind if they were removed, because they mostly serve as source of irritation. For example, fast ships path through local highways which are slower than the ship. In 7.50 local highways also slow ships down when approaching gates.

[jlehtone]

In 7.50 local highways also slow ships down when approaching gates.

That is not new; been there at least from 3.10. The highway ring slows you down to 3km/s just before Gate (and also at that one spot in Hatikvah's Choice.)