[FeatureRequest] Old Claytronics/Hull Part recipes via Closed Loop

[vvvvvvvv]

It is not widely advertised, but new wide area sensor array can be built using two different methods --> Terran and Universal.

Why not do the same thing with hull parts and claytronic modules. Old recipes were removed around 7.50, and while there are likely good reasons, I'm absolutely not a fan of a new recipe requirement.

Why not make old recipes available as closed loop construction option. Same way, as it worked with Wide Area array. It would certainly fit the "build everything out of claytronics/hull parts" theme of closed loop.

[PV_]

+1 in here. New material cost ruined old blueprints. And since some of them are megastations its hella the work to reconstruct the blueprints.
NPC may build the way you like, guys. But let player choose the building type of only hull parts/claytronics/energy cells.

[stooper88]

I'd go even further and argue that the new recipes introduced in 7.50 should be completely undone in their entirety. It's not clear what problem the changes were intended to "fix" as players still need hull parts and claytronics to build advanced composite and plasma conductor factories. The notion of using alternate materials to bootstrap production is completely flawed. And forcing players to be constrained by the new recipes even after hull parts and claytronics are in full production causes a permanent, illogical, and needless inefficiency. Although restoring the original (HP+Clay) recipes under closed loop construction would be helpful, it doesn't help players who aren't playing with ToA or who purposefully have stations set to Universal construction (e.g. for use of non-Argon modules and components). Therefore, if anything, the new recipes should either be reverted entirely or revised to be **OPTIONAL** (i.e. made available under a separate, new construction method so as to not impact the previously existing methods).

[Scoob]

Yeah. I'd like some closed-loop options for those modules to remain. For me, it's largely about the "Scrapper" role-play side of things, rather than "easy mode". Early-game, it's GREAT, later in the game I'm producing EVERYTHING myself any way.

As an aside, I do think ToA missed a trick. I can create most Station modules, many ships - S/M/L and XL - only being excluded from certain high-tier modules and Destroyer Main Batteries. I'd have rather ToA gave us specific new modules, ships and weapons for the closed-loop recipes to make that build method a bit more unique. Being able to produce fairly well-equipped Novas, Eclipses, Minotaurs, Cerberous and even Colossus Carriers ENTIRELY from scrap and energy cells did feel a little too good at times. A basic "Salvaged Nova", "Recovered Mercury" (you get the idea) sort of thing though. Inferior ships BUT easier to build. That said, isn't the lore around Claytronics that's it's some sort of programmable matter? So, it CAN be anything, pretty much... ah, the time for tweaks to ToA and the mechanics the main update at the time added are long past methinks.

But yeah, if Closed-Loops remains a thing, allow it to be an option alongside the altered recipes for the recycling modules. For me, after I have a basic single Processor and Recycler, that forms the basis of allowing the station to continue to supply its self. The recipe change blocks that prior progress. A scrapping station build from scrap made sense... without that, Avarice should be a wasteland of dead station as the faction would not have survived.

[temetvince]

One consideration is that locking these recipes behind paid dlc might be frustrating for some players. I feel the issue of fairness comes into play, but perhaps I am wrong. Another consideration is that closed loop is already quite powerful, so I’m not sure this would be a good move for improving game balance.

And as for closed loop carrying into the endgame, that’s something interesting to me. I would have guessed that scrap scarcity and the limited selection of ship equipment would encourage players towards implementing the full commonwealth ship building chain, especially with the release of Kingdom End where the Boron don’t utilize closed loop. Of course, X4 can be “won” without ever building a shipyard, and players can massively scale using subpar equipment if they so choose. I appreciate that we offer this flexibility to the player. The ideal, in my view, is that scrap either supplements production or helps the player progress towards bigger and better things, acting like a stepping stone or providing the materials to build the commonwealth chain stations themselves.

[stooper88]

One consideration is that locking these recipes behind paid dlc might be frustrating for some players. I feel the issue of fairness comes into play, but perhaps I am wrong. Another consideration is that closed loop is already quite powerful, so I’m not sure this would be a good move for improving game balance.

And as for closed loop carrying into the endgame, that’s something interesting to me.
(...)
The ideal, in my view, is that scrap either supplements production or helps the player progress towards bigger and better things, acting like a stepping stone or providing the materials to build the commonwealth chain stations themselves.

Alright, as a player who is NOT arguing in favor of a closed loop solution nor is heavily vested in scrap recycling, how about my request to simply revert Claytronics and Hull Part build requirements back to their original state? I don't see how the changes to replace Hull Parts and Claytronics building materials with Advanced Composites and Plasma Conductors adds to or improves "game balance" or fixes any issue of "bootstrapping" construction. The changes are punitive, illogical, and violate the lore.

If anything, there should be a separate set of BLUEPRINTS to expose any new construction recipes. This would allow all players who were previously using Universal (i.e. Commonwealth) construction methods to resume building factories the way they had been originally. Anyone desiring the alternate construction requirements could choose the alternate blueprints instead similar to how there are separate Hull Part blueprints which consume either Refined Metal or Teladianium. In this case, the variation would alter the construction resources, not the production inputs. But it would make the option available to all players with or without ToA and with or without Closed Loop preferences, all while preserving the integrity of any in-progress station builds and previously saved station plans.

[vvvvvvvv]

One consideration is that locking these recipes behind paid dlc might be frustrating for some players.

You can simply make those two recipes specifically available without DLC as closed loop. It is not about empowering closed loop, it is about letting player build the old way.

I feel the issue of fairness comes into play, but perhaps I am wrong. Another consideration is that closed loop is already quite powerful, so I’m not sure this would be a good move for improving game balance.

I've played past patch 7.50, it goes like this:
* The change you guys implemented STRONGLY encourages player to completely avoid universal economy and, for example, go full terran. New recipes are incredibly annoying/disruptive player side, and break old build strategies.
* I'm not seeing positive effect on player side. Last times I played, it was hull parts shortage everywhere, and I had to manually haul hull parts. Never had this level of problem pre 7.50.
* My experience is that closed loop is not powerful, it is a niche construction method. The main thing about it, it does not scale well, and amount of equipment is low. Basically with terran tech, once you've built the base, you'll snowball. With closed loop you won't snowball. Scrap processors are hungry for ecells, it is possible to drain all scrap in a sector easily (wrecks do not seem to be added to sector scrap value when they despawn), then your station will be sitting without resources. Scrap processors also work incredibly slowly. The only place where it would probably work well is avarice, but then you'll be dealing with Protectyon which is a hassle I personally always try to avoid, because it is not possible to automate travel to leap of faith.

The main reasoning here is to keep the old method available. And not to make closed loop better. Making them available as part of closed loop is simply an attempt to make the recipes fit. You guys always spoke about save compatibility and with that in mind this change felt odd and abrupt. I never had a thought pre 7.50 "how great it would be if some modules were built COMPLETELY different ways". Honestly, the new recipes could be a fallback NPC uses when there's no more parts, but they do not feel right and do not fit into anything else. Universal economy pretty much establishes "everything is claytronics and hullparts". Then it is suddenly "except those two modules".

That's how I see it.