Chimera is drifting too much

[RyanHeart]

Hi, so first i am only using learn all things mod nothing else is there any reason chimera drifting like crazy ? is this normal even turning ship can cause drifting only full engine stop solves the issue i mean i can boost then full stop and do maybe 10 circles around stations

[LameFox]

Split ships—or engines? It's not really clear to me which this stat comes from—tend to fly that way now. It can actually be moderately useful as it makes you harder to hit, but it does mean you might want to tweak the throttle a lot more slowing down for tight turns.

Sadly one thing it does not do is mesh particularly well with sluggish, low-accuracy Split weapons.

[GCU Grey Area]

There are now significant differences between engines made by different factions. Split engines are intended to be drifty. Perhaps a different faction's engines might suit you better? Here's a brief summary of the various engine characteristics:

Paranid: Fastest travel drives, and ships that fly almost like they are on rails, but much reduced manoeuvrability at high velocity.
Terran: Quickest travel drive charge-up time, very fast travel drive acceleration. Their ships are generally easy to use.
Split: Fastest regular engines, and just enough travel drive performance to intercept most targets. Their ill-controlled drifting is a challenge for rookie pilots though.
Argon: Very aggressive boosting that can offset their poor travel drive acceleration. Their combat ships benefit a lot from improved thrusters.
Teladi: Designed to outlast opponents in combat and haul efficiently at any distance.
Boron: The weakness of their regular engines can be offset by considered use of boosting and their pre-charged travel drives.

[vvvvvvvv]

Hi, so first i am only using learn all things mod nothing else is there any reason chimera drifting like crazy ? is this normal even turning ship can cause drifting only full engine stop solves the issue i mean i can boost then full stop and do maybe 10 circles around stations

Intentional. Split enignes are fast, but drifty meaning challenging. You could install other engines, if you wanted too...

Sadly one thing it does not do is mesh particularly well with sluggish, low-accuracy Split weapons.

Due to drift you end up circle-strafing the target. So the idea is to shower the target with projectiles from all directions at once. I think it fits. And they still have their Boson Lance and rockets.

[LameFox]

Due to drift you end up circle-strafing the target. So the idea is to shower the target with projectiles from all directions at once. I think it fits. And they still have their Boson Lance and rockets.

Their design philosophy according to the description is to get up close. Drifting around a lot does not help with that. I mean sure you can throw a lot of projectiles at something, but even their higher base damage isn't going to offset how many miss due to spread and low velocity if you're not very near the target. Keeping your drift high in combat is much better suited to beams or something.

Bosons are... eh. It's just a worse meson. The speed is decent but charging and the lack of a gimbal don't lend themselves to aiming at fighters, least of all on ships with low base agility since those stats are what you're aiming it with. As far as missiles go, I guess it can work if you want to deal with the added hassle. I'd never take anti-fighter missiles on a personal S ship though because the capacity is just so low for the damage of the missiles. I'd be making constant detours to replace them or else sifting through loot for types I can fire.

[vvvvvvvv]

Their design philosophy according to the description is to get up close. Drifting around a lot does not help with that.

See the point about circle-strafing. You keep close and you keep moving.

[RyanHeart]

There are now significant differences between engines made by different factions. Split engines are intended to be drifty. Perhaps a different faction's engines might suit you better? Here's a brief summary of the various engine characteristics:

Paranid: Fastest travel drives, and ships that fly almost like they are on rails, but much reduced manoeuvrability at high velocity.
Terran: Quickest travel drive charge-up time, very fast travel drive acceleration. Their ships are generally easy to use.
Split: Fastest regular engines, and just enough travel drive performance to intercept most targets. Their ill-controlled drifting is a challenge for rookie pilots though.
Argon: Very aggressive boosting that can offset their poor travel drive acceleration. Their combat ships benefit a lot from improved thrusters.
Teladi: Designed to outlast opponents in combat and haul efficiently at any distance.
Boron: The weakness of their regular engines can be offset by considered use of boosting and their pre-charged travel drives.

Man 1st response time is insane rapid response fleet indeed, thanks for all the help btw wonderful game and universe yeah i think i might use more "in-control" engines

[RyanHeart]

Due to drift you end up circle-strafing the target. So the idea is to shower the target with projectiles from all directions at once. I think it fits. And they still have their Boson Lance and rockets.

Their design philosophy according to the description is to get up close. Drifting around a lot does not help with that. I mean sure you can throw a lot of projectiles at something, but even their higher base damage isn't going to offset how many miss due to spread and low velocity if you're not very near the target. Keeping your drift high in combat is much better suited to beams or something.

Bosons are... eh. It's just a worse meson. The speed is decent but charging and the lack of a gimbal don't lend themselves to aiming at fighters, least of all on ships with low base agility since those stats are what you're aiming it with. As far as missiles go, I guess it can work if you want to deal with the added hassle. I'd never take anti-fighter missiles on a personal S ship though because the capacity is just so low for the damage of the missiles. I'd be making constant detours to replace them or else sifting through loot for types I can fire.

btw does mesons work at all, for my first vanity ship i fitted m2 mesons on a gladius 4 of em and they have insane cooldown time can i use them better ? perhaps with modifications ?, also for a terran ship and weapons carrier which is better using gladius with mesons or dumbfire missiles as bombers both oos and is ?

[LameFox]

Their design philosophy according to the description is to get up close. Drifting around a lot does not help with that.

See the point about circle-strafing. You keep close and you keep moving.

This is not what I've found in any practical case. The drifting is not a tight circle. If I want to do that I have to slow it down a lot more and in that case the defensive value of it is largely lost.

btw does mesons work at all, for my first vanity ship i fitted m2 mesons on a gladius 4 of em and they have insane cooldown time can i use them better ? perhaps with modifications ?, also for a terran ship and weapons carrier which is better using gladius with mesons or dumbfire missiles as bombers both oos and is ?

Mesons are actually fairly doable in an anti-fighter role now, at least on a player ship, but 4 might be excessive. Cooldown only gets worse the more you stack on. I did try flying a Takoba with 2 of them though (all unmodded) and that worked pretty decently. I'd snipe one ship and then manoeuvre while it cooled down and snipe another, etc.

I haven't compared their OOS performance personally. If I want to go with a supply chain I'd just use torpedoes. They do have a terran recipe, they just don't sell the BP. Dunno why.

Mesons do make decent bomber weapons but I tend to put them on Kalis because the AI have an annoying habit of spraying weaponsfire into open space... so you can imagine how annoying it would be if they did that with 4 mesons and then had to wait out the cooldown. If it's a purely OOS battle though that might not be an issue.

[Pesanur]

There are now significant differences between engines made by different factions. Split engines are intended to be drifty. Perhaps a different faction's engines might suit you better? Here's a brief summary of the various engine characteristics:

Paranid: Fastest travel drives, and ships that fly almost like they are on rails, but much reduced manoeuvrability at high velocity.
Terran: Quickest travel drive charge-up time, very fast travel drive acceleration. Their ships are generally easy to use.
Split: Fastest regular engines, and just enough travel drive performance to intercept most targets. Their ill-controlled drifting is a challenge for rookie pilots though.
Argon: Very aggressive boosting that can offset their poor travel drive acceleration. Their combat ships benefit a lot from improved thrusters.
Teladi: Designed to outlast opponents in combat and haul efficiently at any distance.
Boron: The weakness of their regular engines can be offset by considered use of boosting and their pre-charged travel drives.

Aren't the engines, are the ships. I tried Terran ships with Split engines and they are very easy to pilot, and I tried Split ships with Terran engines and they drift like hell, even with mass reducing mods.

[GCU Grey Area]

Aren't the engines, are the ships.

Does not match my experience. Did the Terran plot recently in my new game. Plot provided me with 2 identical ships. Both Moreyas but with different engines, Geometric Owl (PAR engines) & Litigious Rodent (ARG engines). Handling was noticeably different.

[vvvvvvvv]

Aren't the engines, are the ships. I tried Terran ships with Split engines and they are very easy to pilot, and I tried Split ships with Terran engines and they drift like hell, even with mass reducing mods.

Try Falx or Katana with Split Combat Mk4.

[Pesanur]

Aren't the engines, are the ships. I tried Terran ships with Split engines and they are very easy to pilot, and I tried Split ships with Terran engines and they drift like hell, even with mass reducing mods.

Try Falx or Katana with Split Combat Mk4.

I'm tried the Katana with Split Combat Mk.4 vs Dragon Raider with Terran Combat Mk.3 and Syn with Split All-Around vs Rattlesnake with Terran All-Around, and the Split ships with Terran engines drifts much more that the Terran ships with Split engines.

[vvvvvvvv]

Aren't the engines, are the ships. I tried Terran ships with Split engines and they are very easy to pilot, and I tried Split ships with Terran engines and they drift like hell, even with mass reducing mods.

Try Falx or Katana with Split Combat Mk4.

I'm tried the Katana with Split Combat Mk.4 vs Dragon Raider with Terran Combat Mk.3 and Syn with Split All-Around vs Rattlesnake with Terran All-Around, and the Split ships with Terran engines drifts much more that the Terran ships with Split engines.

Looking at data in ship comparison, Katana should be drifting more than the Raider. Because it has worse acceleration (about 7 second to max speed vs 5 seconds on raider) and weaker strafe acceleration with the same thrusters. That, pretty much matches my experience in the game.

If you want a proper test you could construct a test racing circuit. One station module is 400m long, those could be used to measure distances in more precise way.

[Pesanur]

At the end the answer was really simple, as Split sips have more hull that the other races ships, they also have more mass, and therefore, they drift more. (thanks to Imperial Good, that give me the tip for this in another thread).

[vvvvvvvv]

At the end the answer was really simple, as Split sips have more hull that the other races ships, they also have more mass, and therefore, they drift more. (thanks to Imperial Good, that give me the tip for this in another thread).

That's not quite correct. Split ships can be lighter and more hull does not mean heavier.

Dragon --> Dragon 17000 hull, 23t
Dragon Raider --> 8000 hull, 17t
Cobra --> 32000 hull, 38t
Katana --> 11000 hull, 29t.
Falx --> 20000 hull, 20t

Acceleration is determined by ship mass and total engine thrust. Maximum speed is determined by total engine thrust and drag coefficient.
See:
https://roguey.co.uk/x4/help/technical/ ... thrusters/

[RyanHeart]

At the end the answer was really simple, as Split sips have more hull that the other races ships, they also have more mass, and therefore, they drift more. (thanks to Imperial Good, that give me the tip for this in another thread).

so -mass mods can improve on that, hmm

[vvvvvvvv]

At the end the answer was really simple, as Split sips have more hull that the other races ships, they also have more mass, and therefore, they drift more. (thanks to Imperial Good, that give me the tip for this in another thread).

so -mass mods can improve on that, hmm

Yes. Generally ship drifting means sideways acceleration is low, while speed is high. Note that in addition to mass and drag there's now apparently accfactors coefficients which scale acceleration further.

Katana:

Code: Select all

      <physics mass="29.28">
        <inertia pitch="6" yaw="6" roll="6" />
        <drag forward="4.051" reverse="16.203" horizontal="13" vertical="13" pitch="11.5" yaw="13.5" roll="11" />
        <accfactors reverse="0.9" horizontal="1.45" vertical="1.45" />
      </physics>

Falx:

Code: Select all

      <physics mass="41">
        <inertia pitch="4.412" yaw="4.412" roll="3.529" />
        <drag forward="25.165" reverse="70.461" horizontal="11.2" vertical="11.2" pitch="10.7" yaw="10.7" roll="13" />
        <accfactors forward="0.75" reverse="0.85" horizontal="1.35" vertical="1.35" />
      </physics>

Dragon Raider:

Code: Select all

      <physics mass="17.607">
        <inertia pitch="2.961" yaw="2.961" roll="2.369" />
        <drag forward="2.6" reverse="9.87" horizontal="8.5" vertical="8.5" pitch="9.317" yaw="9.317" roll="9.317" />
        <accfactors forward="1.3" reverse="1.1" horizontal="1.1" vertical="1.1" />
      </physics>

Cobra:

Code: Select all

      <physics mass="38.045">
        <inertia pitch="9.1" yaw="9.1" roll="7.8" />
        <drag forward="8.588" reverse="24.046" horizontal="14" vertical="14" pitch="11" yaw="11" roll="14" />
        <accfactors forward="0.9" horizontal="1.15" vertical="1.15" />
      </physics>

Looking at the data, I specifically like double digit drag factor on Falx. It is probably done, because Falx has six engines and would've been very fast otherwise.