Can we have a 'Favour Range Advantage Weapons' fleet role?

[Targ Collective]

i ask because such a role would be ideal for Hyperions utilising longrange missiles. I've been running some tests and they seem to bring main batteries in range whether they will use them or not - I haven't tested outright disabling them, but the Hyperion's shielding means range advantage is more important.

I've run a few tests of a Hyperion fleet equipped with Dumbfire Mk II missiles and they will not kite at range. I'm going to run Heavy Swarm Missiles next so I can get a baseline on optimum loadout; being able to instruct ships to favour the longest range available weapon unless it has no ammo or is disabled would be extremely useful.

Yes, I get that missiles were OP in X3 and that's before we consider the Wraith. But within the scope of existing game balance I should be able to give an order for my ships to keep a distance until out of ammo, maybe with a ship at close range to protect the main group. More skilled pilots would seek to rotate out the close range risk-taker if shields get too damaged, if there is time.

Missile balance, like everything HP, is based on evading and soaking damage on the missile armed ship, and causing damage to the opposing force that they can't evade or soak in turn. The Hyperion is a DLC ship and should therefore be equipped to excel in its role - a missile specialised light capital with a frighteningly efficient main battery array.

Nota bene: trying to get back in the habit of editing instead of chainposting - used to Emails instead of forums so I'm a little rusty.

In any eventuality the proposed fleet specialisation could be called 'Outrange for Commander' and the fleet commander would need seeking to outrange as an always-on AI script because the Fleet Commander would usually need the best protection.

[LameFox]

Aren't you just using it as a worse Barbarossa at that point?

[Targ Collective]

*smiles* In the event that a long range specialisation is not possible and the enemy closes range, or you instruct Hyperions to engage with main batteries, the Hyperion is definitely not a worse Barbarossa.

The low damage of the Main Batteries is deceptive. First, there are six of them, which brings two Hyperions level with an Osaka. Three will stand level with a Syn. Secondly, they have 4.5 faster heat recovery, which means after the Syn or Osaka has exhausted the heat tolerance they will actually deal *more* damage. This is offset by a third shield HP and regen, high mobility by the standards of L size ships, and mediocre main battery range.

The Hyperion intelligently outranging is a key survival strategy. Unless you have squadrons of fighters to wipe out enemy hardpoints, capital vessels will provide dangerous combat. Not that having those squadrons is impossible! But the Hyperions having a strategy for when the fighters are taken down, or against stations with longer range turrets, is critical to their survival.

Nota bene: A fleet button of some kind to expand fleet wings by sublayer, and to select all size classes in common, would be immensely useful - you could expand four or five layers in four or five clicks instead of un-nesting each layer individually; and having a button that, for example, selects all S class ships in a fleet would make stripping the turrets off a ship or station much more accessible to more complicated fleet structures.

[LameFox]

I mean sure but if you're specifically after telling it not to use its main batteries, it just seems like a weird choice of ship. Even higher base missiles have nothing on the capacity of a bunch of L turrets.

If you need to tell it 'use missiles only' and then follow up with 'now guns' you may as well just toggle its weapon group. Same amount of micro. I don't know if that will make it actually 'kite' very well—because nothing in this game seems any good at that, even when it's trying—but in my experience (I once tried using a bunch of Syns with only turrets) their behaviour does reflect whether or not they have active weapons.

[Targ Collective]

*laughs* I like to play around with game balance by making up tasks and seeing if I can solve them with the game. I find that kind of thing fun, as I can hone my gaming skills that way.

The current thought experiment: can I clear a Xenon sector with twenty Hyperions with three fighters each, a support ship, and the support ship escort of five Jians, a Baldric, and twenty four fighters, using only direct orders given to the Hyperions?

The answer is so far 'no' and the culprit is the Hyperion being poor at evading and soaking damage. I'm going to try one last throw which is a Heavy Swarm loadout, all missile turrets - I tend to fit Terran - and see if scrambling those turrets will give my ships the edge.

If that won't bring things to the possible then I will have learned something useful - Hyperions are reliant on stripping subcomponents before engagement, due to the weak shielding, and since their resupply ability is intended for S ships that may well be by design.

A reliance on fighters frees up the main batteries, but the missiles as an additional backup for ranged kiting work would be an excellent refinement that wouldn't need the changing of a single stat.

But for the fighters to autodock with the ships needs them assigned to that ship, and each Hyperion can only take three. Twenty clicks to order sixty fighters. If they're further nested to give the Interceptors more nuance, which I like to do, then that's forty clicks to order sixty fighters. Right clicking the fleet leader and clicking a menu item 'select all S subordinates' would be much better. Clicking a carrier and clicking the button would select just the subordinates of the carrier. The Hyperions need UI like this (actually, a Dock all Subordinates button would be useful too). It would optimise well, as it would only be searching for ships in wings and subwings.

Nota bene: Hyperions with Attack Hardpoints I have not tested yet. It is quite possible that they will default to hull damage if out of hardpoints so it could be the solution.

Nota bene: Mimicry orders for the fighter wings might saturate Attack Surface Elements orders at a click - let us say the Heavy Fighters mimic the Hyperions while the light fighters specialise in Interception. Mimicry orders cascading from the fleet commander have potential.