I am starting to hate the new flight mechanics

[jduato]

Hi,

I have been playing all the X games since X2 and when I started playing X4, after some adaptation period, I was very happy with it. I could do things that were impossible with previous games, like combat while in travel mode. This combat style allowed me to evade missiles while still killing (or making pilots bail) S/M ships. More recently, I got used to close combat with fast and powerful fighters like the Chimera or the Xperimental Shuttle. I enjoyed very much being able to kill enemies and, when observing a quick shield drop, quickly pressing the Tab (boost) key to escape, waiting until shields recharged and coming back t ocombat again.

Yesterday I did something similar with the Odachi, killing enemies to gain reputation (I use to play custom start with all the major factions as enemies) in battles where all ships are enemies and there are more than one hundred of them (e.g. PAR invading a HOP sector).

But today, after the 7.50 update, I tried again and was killed very quickly. The boost no longer consumes shields (good) but it takes ages to refill (very bad). I can no longer do any useful attack while in travel mode because it takes too long to decelerate and accelerate when turning 180 degrees. And even worse, inertia makes it very hard to quickly turn and hit enemies. Also, it seems that the time to reach travel speed has been dramatically increased for the Odachi engine.

I do not know whether other players are suffering the same kind of situations, but I am seriously considering coming back by selecting beta 7.10 hotfix 3 and sticking to that beta forever.

Is there any way to at least disable the new flight mode?

Any advice is welcome because I am feeling very frustrated.

[cubanbface]

I like it. Nothing wrong with it. Its realistic.

[Pesanur]

I don't like realism, I like fun. The new flight model isn't fun, is tedious.

[cubanbface]

Idk, I been playing with it thru the later betas and now and Seems fun and fine. I've actually gotten really good at dog fighting. Are you using a controller and keyboard both? I use Xbox controller for piloting and the mouse for menus etc.

[sabbede]

Give it a little time and you'll get used to it. Once you're over that initial learning curve (it won't take long, promise) then you may find it's even more fun. I sure have.

Boost often. That's my best advice.

[alt3rn1ty]

Having played through all the beta versions and testing its development along the way, I had some niggles at first but those were slowly solved.

I guess I got used to it, and now love it. But I can see a lot of people that have not had time to get accustomed to it will be a bit surprised by the feel of some ships, if they have gone straight from 7.10 to 7.50.

Give it some time to adjust your perception is all I can say. I now love dogfighting even more than I used to, and watching a fleet of destroyers (or even just one like the Erlking) doing co-ordinated attacks on stations is much better than it used to be.

[TroubledRabbit]

I like it. Nothing wrong with it. Its realistic.

there is nothing 'realistic' in flight model old or a new. Wanna 'realism' (in reasonable amount), run e.g. oolite.

New flight model requires developing completely new routines from a player. Some will love it, some will hate. My personal reaction was 'meh'.

It has its annoyances (e.g. long charge for travel drive even in small ships, 'hard brakes' when you go out of travel mode so no more 'surfing' etc.) If it is 'good' or 'bad' will depends on the player's preferences and willingnes to adapt.

[Raptor34]

I've never flown much to be clear.
And so I've just went and popped both Astrids to cap them, and honestly, I don't really see that much of a difference.
Frankly the old system wasn't all that good either for me, playing Timelines can be a real PITA sometimes.

[jduato]

Give it a little time and you'll get used to it. Once you're over that initial learning curve (it won't take long, promise) then you may find it's even more fun. I sure have.

Boost often. That's my best advice.

Thanks for the advice.

Boosting is one the the reasons I had a negative reaction when I resumed my current game after the update. In particular, it took much longer to refill boost than it used to take to refill shields in the Odachi, especially after I installed Cast (in-game mod to increase recharge rate).

[alt3rn1ty]

Give it a little time and you'll get used to it. Once you're over that initial learning curve (it won't take long, promise) then you may find it's even more fun. I sure have.

Boost often. That's my best advice.

Thanks for the advice.

Boosting is one the the reasons I had a negative reaction when I resumed my current game after the update. In particular, it took much longer to refill boost than it used to take to refill shields in the Odachi, especially after I installed Cast (in-game mod to increase recharge rate).

There was a lot of work done to keep the in game mods to weapons etcetera still good, but I believe there are a few edge cases.
Personally I havent had any need to re-roll or replace with another more suitable mod on any of my ships so far.
But there are some ships that benefit a lot more from modding, and a combination of less drag/mass on the chassis, plus any speed increasing mods .. Both combine better to give some ships much better speed than they used to.

[jduato]

I just went back to 7.10. Compared the engine stats for the Odachi in 7.10 and 7.50. It takes 9 times longer to accelerate to travel speed in 7.50

I play games to have fun, and I never had so much fun in the X series as when flying a fast S heavy fighter in X4 in difficult combat scenarios, followed by doing the same with some corvettes.

X4 is not a difficult game at all. In a previous gameplay, 13 hours into the game and I had captured every Asgard that entered Mars (20 Asgards or so). It was repetitive, boring.

But I read a post that suggested to start a custom game without any ship and with all major factions set to -30. Boring at the beginning until a got the money to buy a ship. But then fun came back. Real fun. But suddenly, 7.50 got installed and combat was no longer fun.

Now that I went back to 7.10, I think I am going to keep playing that release for very long...

[-=FL=- UniversE]

It's interesting to see that people actually don't like the new flight model - I am genuinely surprised.

- Boosting away in low shield situations is now possible.
- Strafing isn't useless
- Keeping aim and circling around targets is now possible without crashing with the target → merges (dogfight terminology) are a lot better and a lot more fun for the same reason
- Ships no longer have bad to zero responsiveness when in full travel mode
- Haven't tested it long enough, but I think even the space suite responsiveness has vastly improved

Except that the AI is still crashing into stations when attacking them because they don't turn veer off in time, I cannot see any negative changes. But I am playing with a HOTAS - so that might explain different perception of the new flight model.

[Raptor34]

Except that the AI is still crashing into stations when attacking them because they don't turn veer off in time, I cannot see any negative changes.

AI crashes into stations when trying to leave. So I'm not surprised they have issues attacking one.
Just something I've noticed when I modded my ships in the Argon Wharf and then ordered them back to my new Hyp which so happened to be at the shipyard on the other side...
Might be better if they do runs out and back in instead of trying to navigate.

[vvvvvvvv]

It takes 9 times longer to accelerate to travel speed in 7.50

You can boost while travel mode countdown is ticking.

[Falcrack]

In my opinion, boost recharges far too quickly.

[Notafinancialadvisor]

[...] The boost no longer consumes shields (good) but it takes ages to refill (very bad). I can no longer do any useful attack while in travel mode because it takes too long to decelerate and accelerate when turning 180 degrees. And even worse, inertia makes it very hard to quickly turn and hit enemies. Also, it seems that the time to reach travel speed has been dramatically increased for the Odachi engine.
[...]

You could mod the engine_ter_m_virtual_01_mk1_macro to exactly suit your personal needs, but from what you write I don't see a big issue.

• Boost refills completely in 100s and it gives you nearly 5x of acceleration on the Odachi.
• That means you get enough boost to flee from a tough situation every ~20s given that your Travel Drive charges instantly.
• You now have multiple options to perform efficient 180° turns from top speed using brakes, TD off > on, or FA off > turn > FA on, depending on what exactly you want to achieve.
• Aside from TER travel engines that have obvious downsides in combat, the Odachi is still features the best M-class engine when it comes to TD acceleration times.
• Slowing down for better turning in dogfights is now a thing...
• ... but then the Odachi is still fairly overpowered and should still be performing well...
• ... though some of the enemies you commonly encounter may now be more powerful than before.

[LameFox]

Personally for the situation you're describing I would have selected a ship with a high base speed. Odachi isn't bad but for 1-v-many fights something like a Kuraokami or Katana might be more suitable just to get in and hit one target hard and get out again. S ships are also generally more suitable IMO because of their shields recovering so fast relative to damage taken. In a Moreya during the 7.5 tests I was able to start in Argon Prime, hostile to everyone, and fight indefinitely. They just never could kill me. Same with a Takoba with Mesons on it.

Slower more agile ships strike me as something better suited to 1v1 or group-v-group combat, where not every gun there is aimed directly at you.

[jduato]

It takes 9 times longer to accelerate to travel speed in 7.50

You can boost while travel mode countdown is ticking.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think so. I am not talking about travel mode attack time. I am talking about a corvette with a combat engine that has zero attack time. Thus, travel mode is entered as soon as a hit the key. However, accelerating from forward speed (about 600 in my in-game modded Odachi) to travel mode speed (about 6000) now takes 9 times longer.

The consequence: In 7.10 I entered tarvel mode quite frequently instead of boosting to close the gap to a nearby enemy (at 8 or 10 Km) to avoid draining shields too much. In 7.50 this is no longer an option. It is far too slow. Boosting is now the only option. It does not consume shields, but the boost capacitor takes too long to refill (to my taste). Not to mention that maximum boost duration has also been nerfed in the Odachi.

I am going to reinstall 7.50 and check the stats for the Xperimental Shuttle. If it has not been nerfed as much as the Odachi, I will again give a try. If the Shuttle has been nerfed as much as the Odachi, bye bye forever to any future X4 updates.

[jduato]

[...] The boost no longer consumes shields (good) but it takes ages to refill (very bad). I can no longer do any useful attack while in travel mode because it takes too long to decelerate and accelerate when turning 180 degrees. And even worse, inertia makes it very hard to quickly turn and hit enemies. Also, it seems that the time to reach travel speed has been dramatically increased for the Odachi engine.
[...]

You could mod the engine_ter_m_virtual_01_mk1_macro to exactly suit your personal needs, but from what you write I don't see a big issue.

• Boost refills completely in 100s and it gives you nearly 5x of acceleration on the Odachi.
• That means you get enough boost to flee from a tough situation every ~20s given that your Travel Drive charges instantly.
• You now have multiple options to perform efficient 180° turns from top speed using brakes, TD off > on, or FA off > turn > FA on, depending on what exactly you want to achieve.
• Aside from TER travel engines that have obvious downsides in combat, the Odachi is still features the best M-class engine when it comes to TD acceleration times.
• Slowing down for better turning in dogfights is now a thing...
• ... but then the Odachi is still fairly overpowered and should still be performing well...
• ... though some of the enemies you commonly encounter may now be more powerful than before.

Thanks for the advice. I am going to try TD off > on as you suggested.

Certainly, some enemies may now be much more powerful. When looking at the stats, Xenon M engines (which were much worse than the Odachi engine) are now better (in 7.50).

[jduato]

Personally for the situation you're describing I would have selected a ship with a high base speed. Odachi isn't bad but for 1-v-many fights something like a Kuraokami or Katana might be more suitable just to get in and hit one target hard and get out again. S ships are also generally more suitable IMO because of their shields recovering so fast relative to damage taken. In a Moreya during the 7.5 tests I was able to start in Argon Prime, hostile to everyone, and fight indefinitely. They just never could kill me. Same with a Takoba with Mesons on it.

Slower more agile ships strike me as something better suited to 1v1 or group-v-group combat, where not every gun there is aimed directly at you.

Thanks for the advice. As I said in another post, I am going to try with a fast S fighter and see how it works in many to one scenarios.