Problems with the player faction ship AI

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silent_elyxyr
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Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

There are indicators of a significant and massive lack of intelligence in the player faction AI ships. First off, these observations are on ships with fully maxed out captains, 5 stars in everything.

Ship classes of my observations: Heavy Fighter, Miner/Freighter, Corvette, Destroyer. (this probably applies to all ship classes)

Ships: F, SE, B, PE, H (I use Xenon ships because I like them, and they're somewhat okay overall even if not very good.

Pilots: "all" (I think I have lost a few to stations getting nuked) 5 star boron.

yes, this is a rant... :rant:
Expected behavior: the pilots fly their ships perfectly, evading enemy units and fire effectively, while utilizing their ships in the optimal manner, they have excellent survival instinct and automatically flee from combat when things get dicey, etc.

Actual behavior in the current game/beta (mods if this needs to go in beta please move it there, thanks): Pilots fly the ships horribly, doing things like constantly changing their turning direction while not moving, crashing into other ships, crashing into stations and docks, crashing into any object at high speed and nuking their own shields, flying towards enemy ships when fleeing, making no attempts to move out of the way when shot at instead opting to sit in one place and rotate in random directions while changing direction constantly so that they are always facing away from the enemy ship, losing to ships they should be able to easily defeat (for example, a B should easily win in a 1v1 vs a Kha'ak Queens Guard if it engages it correctly and manages to keep its weapons on target, however it will instead be unable to aim properly, stop halfway through an attack run, usually right next to the enemy ship, and get into a confused turning state where it will sit still and constantly turn away from the enemy ship, getting itself killed as a result), attacking in the optimal firing arc of ships (especially capital ships, I've watched my Fs all get nuked by an I because they decide to attack it side on and fly right into the graviton turret volleys), pathfinding into danger simply because they want to utilize or access a certain map object, attacking ships that can easily defeat them with a single shot, extremely inconsistent behavior and co-ordination, engaging targets when global standing orders tells them to flee and drop laser towers under every possible circumstance that allows it, not paging the player when told to, not fleeing properly (won't flee, flees towards or into danger, gets into a confused turning state (not moving but constantly turning), doesn't drop a laser tower when escape and deploy laser towers is set as their flee method, drops a laser tower but doesn't flee, etc. Improper use of travel drive and boost, being either too willing or too unwilling to use boost and travel drive, leading to them either running into things at high speeds and nuking their own shields or getting nuked by enemy fire, or being too slow when they need to move quickly, which also gets them killed usually. The AI is so bad right now that looking away for a single second could mean losing most of a fleet while the rest runs away (horribly), missing half their hull strength. They also seem to be unwilling to utlize their weapons effectively, with ships like the H not using its sesimic charge turret when told to attack surface elements on a larger ship, and instead opting to fly really close and use the needler turrets.

The current state of the player faction AI turns X4 from a space trading simulator, into a space stressful-micromanagement simulator. In which attempting to enjoy the game results in at best suboptimal results. One should not have to, essentially, manually control, their AI controlled fleets, so that they don't get into horrible space accidents from their space stupidity, resulting in their space deaths. The other factions AI does not seem to have this issue, at least not as badly, and does a LOT better in nearly every situation. Better aim, better flying, better docking, etc.

While watching all your Fs get stuck trying to enter a Teladi trading station to dock is funny, watching all your Fs die because their 5 star pilots fly like how you'd expect a 0 star pilot to, is not funny or fun in the slightest.

The game is not fun when most of your time needs to be spent manually controlling things which should be automatic and require no player input at all. (Also what happened to the restore ship/fleet function I remember being announced?)

Another thing, which isn't entirely related with the "player faction AI is extremely stupid and lacks basic instincts that even single celled organisms have" but could possibly provide some amount of assistence to the player, especially when dealing with this, would be the ability to have more than one quicksave loadable, that way if the player quicksaves too close to a moment where their ships are all getting nuked, they can load a qucksave that is before it, but after one of their autosaves or manual saves.

Also, save slots. Please make save folders/slots. (again not really on topic but important enough to mention)


TL;DR

The player faction AI shows significantly worse performance than the non player faction AI, including but not limited to: Improper handling and control of ships, not following orders correctly, downright horrible tactics in combat, lack of survival instinct, being a klutzes, flying as if they are completely unaware of anything happening around them, attacking things when told not to attack anything and let their laser towers handle it, not dropping extra laser towers when attacked again while fleeing (please add this, it would be very useful), inability to do combat properly or effectively, etc. All of this with the entire PF fleet having max level ship captains and veteran military crews on their military ships.

Suggestions for some things:

- Target preferences: Ships of certain classes, sizes, and with certain weapons, prefer certain targets and will prioritize those over other targets. By default it should be set that S ships will attack S and M but prefer S, M ships will attack S M and L ships but prefer S and M, L ships will fight S M L and XL ships but prefer L or smaller and will try to avoid fighting XL unless they are forced to. All ships by default should attempt to escape any ships larger than them if they encounter them, and should escape and drop laser towers if a ship of their same size attacks them. (this will prevent the player from having to micromanage large fleets in completely separate areas of the map.

- Improved combat behavior: This is things like Auto-Flee, etc. Auto-Flee means that a ship will automatically attempt to drop laser and withdraw from combat/flee/escape under conditions such as their shields dropping below a certain threshold or becoming depleted. Being more willing to utilize tactical repositioning and laser towers when in combat, when they get hit instead of sitting there and constantly turning, they drop a laser tower (or multiple even) and attempt to quickly move to a safe position before attempting to find their target and attack it again.

- Better aim: This applies to everything that needs aim, from combat, to mining, to shooting down enemy drones. This also would be useful for laser towers. Better aim is self explantory, the pilots should do their best to keep their primary weapons on target for as long as possible when firing/attacking, should attempt to lead effectively for the weapons and weapon type they are utilizing, etc.

- Smarter stations/leaders: some of the problematic behaviour is linked to a fleet leader giving their subordinates bad orders. The fleet/station commanders should follow global standing orders and the survival of their fleets above all else. A station or fleet commanders orders and AI should not prevent global standing orders from being executed, and should not prevent behaviour such as auto-flee from happening.

- Ships should not return to combat unless their sheilds are fully recharged and their hull is above 50% (as a good default). If their hull is too low, they will attempt to make it to the closest warf as quickly as possible and get repairs, if repairs are not possible, they will simply dock and wait until they can repair, then resume their duties automatically. In their attempts to escape and find repairs, they must also do their best to avoid enemy ships in any way possible. If attacked while fleeing, they should drop laser towers every time they are attacked. (auto flee and repair) Too many times I have seen my ships I told to flee, returning to combat with their shields barely recharged, and their hull heavily damaged.

- Auto replenish resources: If a ship was configured with a certain amount of resources by the player, it should attempt to automatically resupply itself with those resources whenever the supplies drop below a certian percentage. This should not be prevented by a ship being in a fleet/having a commander ship. (resources includes things like drones, deployables, and flares) This should be done along with the "flee and repair" function of auto-flee, and should also be done along with auto-dock-and-repair behavior. If the ship cannot afford resupply, it will stay docked until it can, then it will reload its drones, deployables, flares, etc. to the configuration specified by the player/loadout, and resume their duties.

- automatic target priorities when set to "attack all surface elements". Ships should attempt to use their larger weapons on larger sized ship elements, ships should engage in this manner: destroy enemy engines while evading enemy fire as much as possible, a ship like an H can take out surface elemets rather quickly if it uses its seismic charge turrets (which are the third highest burst damage L turret in the game, and the only non missile turret to have AOE damage along with its direct damage), then target weapons clusters, taking out their sheilds then destroying the turrets, again while avoiding fire as much as possible and fleeing if necessary (low sheilds, damage to hull, out of resources such as drones, flares, laser towers, etc.), then once all the turrets are gone, moving to an optimal firing arc and destroying the main sheilds, then attacking the hull itself to finish off the ship, destroying any surface elements that regenerate as soon as they do. They also need to be more willing to use their large turrets and main batterys when attacking, I watched my H attack an I, and make an attack run in which it never fired its seismic charge turrets ONCE, and when it did it was ineffectual because it would either fire into empty space, or simply at the hull of the ship instead of attacking and destroying the surface elements.

- Preference to attack and destroy surface elements on any ship larger than themselves which possess destroyable/targetable surface elements. This is a very good strategy as it prevents the enemy ship from being able to fight back and nuke your ships.

- evasive manuvers: player faction AI controlled ships should do everything they can to avoid taking damage while in combat, and should especially try to avoid being hit. If a missile is after them they should flare, and flee. (drop a laser tower too, and laser towers should also be able to target and shoot down missiles)

- more willingness to utilize laser towers and F/F mines in a tactical manner. Such as deploying them when turning around, in a joust, etc. This will result in a group of laser towers, mines, etc. being in and around the combat area, which means if other ships try to join the fray, they risk being damaged, and whichever ship the player faction AI ships is fighting now has to also deal with the obsticals. (note: the player faction AI pilots should strongly prefer laser towers over mines)

- maybe, deploying a satellite when in combat to provide more awareness of what is happening around the combat area, then retreiving it when out of combat/danger.

- smarter docking behavior: Ships should attempt to enter and exit stations in an orderly and efficent manner, same for when docking to and undocking from other ships. While a ball of Fs in the entrance of a closed off docking area (such as a carrier or a teladi trading station) is comical, it also is a signifcant problem, which can result in unnessicary losses.

- better pathfinding. if PFAI (Player Faction Artificial Intelligence) ships detect enemy ships, stations, etc. they should adjust their pathing to avoid coming into range of the enemy ships, stations, etc.

- an understanding of weapons: they should be able to know and understand the range, projectile velocity, accuracy, aiming speed, damage, etc. of all weapons, including their own. So that they are able to utlize and combat them effectively.

- pilot level mattering for more than "possible orders". With the improvements I mentioned above, they should be applied more strongly to higher ranked pilots than lower ranked pilots. However, this does not mean that any rank of pilot should continue with the problematic behavior I mentioned in my rant earlier in this post.

- preference to get repairs from factions which the player has high standing with, as a toggle-able option.

Anyways as of typing this I am getting very tired so I will wrap it up here. Also, I am tired of losing all my Fs.

Also, can we please have re-programable Xenon ships and possibly even stations? Where it is possible for any Xenon ship or station to become unclaimed, and the player has to scan it, first with their ship, then scan the revealed data-leaks with their space suit to "re-program" it. Which adds it to the player faction and allows the player to give order to, or even pilot it directly if possible. (such as for the B, PE, SE, F, and H)
silent_elyxyr
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

egosoft please fix
Falcrack
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by Falcrack »

silent_elyxyr wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 08:13 egosoft please fix
Multi thousand word essays often times do not even get read. You would have better luck if you could limit your suggestion to 3-4 sentences.
flywlyx
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by flywlyx »

Falcrack wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 14:58 You would have better luck if you could limit your suggestion to 3-4 sentences.
It still won't be read anyway. The AI issue has existed for seven years and will likely persist for another seven. I'm already accustomed to it.
All the issues he mentioned have been discussed countless times on this forum. I don’t know what else to say except that I support more people voicing their complaints here.
jlehtone
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by jlehtone »

The purpose of player's ships is to die. Their death supports the artificial urge to build more of them. :P


How about this: Remove all weapons from game. Nobody can get hurt. Nobody will die. No AI issues? :roll:
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flywlyx
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by flywlyx »

jlehtone wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 19:52 The purpose of player's ships is to die. Their death supports the artificial urge to build more of them. :P
The point is that players have certain expectations based on various videos and games about how things should work.
For example, when it comes to docking, they would expect something like this: https://youtu.be/inj6nNZ2VZ8?si=WfjqOMca_qwy7fxr&t=392
This always comes down to the argument that you shouldn't force users to adapt—just give them what they want in the most convenient way possible.
af_2017
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by af_2017 »

Generally this game looks like egosoft said "we do that nobody have done before".
But sadly egosoft failed at it either.
After thousands hours of play time users discovers that the implementation/design quality is really poor.
And I find it really frustrating.
You have to forgive a lot to play this game.
Sorry about saying this.
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.
silent_elyxyr
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

Falcrack wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 14:58
silent_elyxyr wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 08:13 egosoft please fix
Multi thousand word essays often times do not even get read. You would have better luck if you could limit your suggestion to 3-4 sentences.
okay then, but honestly it is not an essay, and I don't think there's ways to tell all the problems in that few sentances but here's an attpemt at 3-4 of the problems (there are more than that)

- Ignoring standing orders and attacking when told to run away and drop laser towers. Often they will engage in fights they obviously cannot win, like an F vs a K or I.
- sitting in place and turning instead of trying to move out of the way when in combat, happens when being attacked too. Also when fighting enemy pilots with a lower skill rating in the same ship, the player faction pilots, even when max level, seem to do worse.
- inability to navigate properly, often resulting in various forms of "blind" flying such as fleeing INTO enemy fleets and ramming gates, highways, stations, and other ships at full speed causing them to lose their shields.
- not making any attempts to evade enemy fire. (the faction AI ships do this)

there's so much more.
silent_elyxyr
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

flywlyx wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 16:31
Falcrack wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 14:58 You would have better luck if you could limit your suggestion to 3-4 sentences.
It still won't be read anyway. The AI issue has existed for seven years and will likely persist for another seven. I'm already accustomed to it.
All the issues he mentioned have been discussed countless times on this forum. I don’t know what else to say except that I support more people voicing their complaints here.
currently X4 is a micromanagement simulation in which ones ability to stop and start time at the correct moments determines if they will win or lose, and where one second of looking away from a ship or fleet could result in the death of a ship that you do not want to lose.
silent_elyxyr
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

af_2017 wrote: Sat, 15. Feb 25, 02:26 Generally this game looks like egosoft said "we do that nobody have done before".
But sadly egosoft failed at it either.
After thousands hours of play time users discovers that the implementation/design quality is really poor.
And I find it really frustrating.
You have to forgive a lot to play this game.
Sorry about saying this.
I enjoy the game. I do not enjoy the micromanagement simulator. I want my ships to do the following
- follow orders correctly, standing orders should take priority
- NOT fly as if they are blind (NPC faction ships do this) (btw by "fly as if they are blind" I mean things like ramming objects, not avoiding enemies when flying to various places, flying directly into enemy fleets when asked to flee, etc.)
- actually make attempts at evading enemy attacks. While seismic and graviton shots do massive damage they do not have as much range as the other L plasma type turrets, and their projectiles move slowly. I have watched Xenon ships make attempts at avoiding the L plasma on stations i build (which always seem to summon an I or a K or multiple of both for some reason...
- actually attempt to reposition in combat rather than sitting in place and doing nothing.
- more
silent_elyxyr
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

flywlyx wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 21:22
jlehtone wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 19:52 The purpose of player's ships is to die. Their death supports the artificial urge to build more of them. :P
The point is that players have certain expectations based on various videos and games about how things should work.
For example, when it comes to docking, they would expect something like this: https://youtu.be/inj6nNZ2VZ8?si=WfjqOMca_qwy7fxr&t=392
This always comes down to the argument that you shouldn't force users to adapt—just give them what they want in the most convenient way possible.
they used to have no issue getting in and out of things like Teladi trading stations. Now they seem to get stuck in a giant ship ball in the entrances and take quite a while to solve themselves before they go to dock in a mostly normal manner. While the shipball is funny, it is also very problematic.
silent_elyxyr
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

jlehtone wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 19:52 The purpose of player's ships is to die. Their death supports the artificial urge to build more of them. :P


How about this: Remove all weapons from game. Nobody can get hurt. Nobody will die. No AI issues? :roll:
The player ships are supposed to perform tasks for the player such as mining, trading, escorting the former two, etc.

They seem to do EVERYTHING both worse and stupider than the NPC faction ships, even if the player faction captains have max level on everything.

when it comes to combat, I want them to use at least remotely better tactics. currently their tactics are worse than the NPC ships. They do things like sitting in one place and constantly turning but somehow always turning to face away from the enemy ships (which is very bad for ships like the B). They also will rarely make attempts to reposistion and seem to be unwilling to use boost, or other methods to gain space between them and enemies so they can get a better shot at them. (all things that the NPC AI seems to do on some way or other)

while ships like the H can hold their own against swarms of fighters (as long as no missiles are involved, and they don't get into the very unfortunate blind spot the H has of directly behind itself) it is not fun to watch an entire fleet get wiped out by something just because you looked away for ONE SECOND.
silent_elyxyr
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

Suggestions for some things:

- Target preferences: Ships of certain classes, sizes, and with certain weapons, prefer certain targets and will prioritize those over other targets. By default it should be set that S ships will attack S and M but prefer S, M ships will attack S M and L ships but prefer S and M, L ships will fight S M L and XL ships but prefer L or smaller and will try to avoid fighting XL unless they are forced to. All ships by default should attempt to escape any ships larger than them if they encounter them, and should escape and drop laser towers if a ship of their same size attacks them. (this will prevent the player from having to micromanage large fleets in completely separate areas of the map.

- Improved combat behavior: This is things like Auto-Flee, etc. Auto-Flee means that a ship will automatically attempt to drop laser and withdraw from combat/flee/escape under conditions such as their shields dropping below a certain threshold or becoming depleted. Being more willing to utilize tactical repositioning and laser towers when in combat, when they get hit instead of sitting there and constantly turning, they drop a laser tower (or multiple even) and attempt to quickly move to a safe position before attempting to find their target and attack it again.

- Better aim: This applies to everything that needs aim, from combat, to mining, to shooting down enemy drones. This also would be useful for laser towers. Better aim is self explanatory, the pilots should do their best to keep their primary weapons on target for as long as possible when firing/attacking, should attempt to lead effectively for the weapons and weapon type they are utilizing, etc.

- Smarter stations/leaders: some of the problematic behavior is linked to a fleet leader giving their subordinates bad orders. The fleet/station commanders should follow global standing orders and the survival of their fleets above all else. A station or fleet commanders orders and AI should not prevent global standing orders from being executed, and should not prevent behaviour such as auto-flee from happening.

- Ships should not return to combat unless their shields are fully recharged and their hull is above 50% (as a good default). If their hull is too low, they will attempt to make it to the closest warf as quickly as possible and get repairs, if repairs are not possible, they will simply dock and wait until they can repair, then resume their duties automatically. In their attempts to escape and find repairs, they must also do their best to avoid enemy ships in any way possible. If attacked while fleeing, they should drop laser towers every time they are attacked. (auto flee and repair) Too many times I have seen my ships I told to flee, returning to combat with their shields barely recharged, and their hull heavily damaged.

- Auto replenish resources: If a ship was configured with a certain amount of resources by the player, it should attempt to automatically resupply itself with those resources whenever the supplies drop below a certian percentage. This should not be prevented by a ship being in a fleet/having a commander ship. (resources includes things like drones, deployables, and flares) This should be done along with the "flee and repair" function of auto-flee, and should also be done along with auto-dock-and-repair behavior. If the ship cannot afford resupply, it will stay docked until it can, then it will reload its drones, deployables, flares, etc. to the configuration specified by the player/loadout, and resume their duties.

- automatic target priorities when set to "attack all surface elements". Ships should attempt to use their larger weapons on larger sized ship elements, ships should engage in this manner: destroy enemy engines while evading enemy fire as much as possible, a ship like an H can take out surface elements rather quickly if it uses its seismic charge turrets (which are the third highest burst damage L turret in the game, and the only non missile turret to have AOE damage along with its direct damage), then target weapons clusters, taking out their shields then destroying the turrets, again while avoiding fire as much as possible and fleeing if necessary (low sheilds, damage to hull, out of resources such as drones, flares, laser towers, etc.), then once all the turrets are gone, moving to an optimal firing arc and destroying the main sheilds, then attacking the hull itself to finish off the ship, destroying any surface elements that regenerate as soon as they do. They also need to be more willing to use their large turrets and main batterys when attacking, I watched my H attack an I, and make an attack run in which it never fired its seismic charge turrets ONCE, and when it did it was ineffectual because it would either fire into empty space, or simply at the hull of the ship instead of attacking and destroying the surface elements.

- Preference to attack and destroy surface elements on any ship larger than themselves which possess destroyable/targetable surface elements. This is a very good strategy as it prevents the enemy ship from being able to fight back and nuke your ships.

- evasive maneuvers: player faction AI controlled ships should do everything they can to avoid taking damage while in combat, and should especially try to avoid being hit. If a missile is after them they should flare, and flee. (drop a laser tower too, and laser towers should also be able to target and shoot down missiles)

- more willingness to utilize laser towers and F/F mines in a tactical manner. Such as deploying them when turning around, in a joust, etc. This will result in a group of laser towers, mines, etc. being in and around the combat area, which means if other ships try to join the fray, they risk being damaged, and whichever ship the player faction AI ships is fighting now has to also deal with the obsticals. (note: the player faction AI pilots should strongly prefer laser towers over mines)

- maybe, deploying a satellite when in combat to provide more awareness of what is happening around the combat area, then retrieving it when out of combat/danger.

- smarter docking behavior: Ships should attempt to enter and exit stations in an orderly and efficient manner, same for when docking to and unlocking from other ships. While a ball of Fs in the entrance of a closed off docking area (such as a carrier or a teladi trading station) is comical, it also is a significant problem, which can result in unnessicary losses.

- better pathfinding. if PFAI (Player Faction Artificial Intelligence) ships detect enemy ships, stations, etc. they should adjust their pathing to avoid coming into range of the enemy ships, stations, etc.

- an understanding of weapons: they should be able to know and understand the range, projectile velocity, accuracy, aiming speed, damage, etc. of all weapons, including their own. So that they are able to utilize and combat them effectively.

- pilot level mattering for more than "possible orders". With the improvements I mentioned above, they should be applied more strongly to higher ranked pilots than lower ranked pilots. However, this does not mean that any rank of pilot should continue with the problematic behavior I mentioned in my rant earlier in this post.

- preference to get repairs from factions which the player has high standing with, as a toggle-able option.
TheDeliveryMan
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by TheDeliveryMan »

silent_elyxyr wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 08:13 egosoft please fix
Invest some time to research how successful feauture/improvement suggestions and bug reports are done on this forum. Otherwise you are just wasting your time.

In the current format there is zero chance a dev will read through this thread.
jlehtone
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by jlehtone »

silent_elyxyr wrote: Sat, 15. Feb 25, 10:50 The player ships are supposed to perform tasks for the player such as mining, trading, escorting the former two, etc.

They seem to do EVERYTHING both worse and stupider than the NPC faction ships, even if the player faction captains have max level on everything.

They also will rarely make attempts to reposistion and seem to be unwilling to use boost, or other methods to gain space between them and enemies so they can get a better shot at them. (all things that the NPC AI seems to do on some way or other)
The player ships do perform those tasks. Particularly on trading player has the power to govern details that the NPC cannot, and thus make guaranteed profit.

Yes, in principle, the player's AI would ideally be as bad as the NPC AI. It isn't. More devastantingly, player has no limit on number of ships. Your ship mines at 80% speed of NPC ship? No problem. Assign ten ships to the task. That yields 800% of the NPC output. :rant:

There was heated discussion about boost, because player's ships died in combat due to using it. The 7.5 update is supposed to change the boost. :cry:
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flywlyx
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by flywlyx »

TheDeliveryMan wrote: Sat, 15. Feb 25, 14:30 Invest some time to research how successful feauture/improvement suggestions and bug reports are done on this forum. Otherwise you are just wasting your time.

In the current format there is zero chance a dev will read through this thread.
I haven't seen any posts from you indicating your suggestions being implemented. From what I understand, most of his suggestions are common complaints that Egosoft is already aware of. They’ll only address these issues if enough complaints appear across all platforms.
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by Raptor34 »

jlehtone wrote: Sat, 15. Feb 25, 15:06 Yes, in principle, the player's AI would ideally be as bad as the NPC AI. It isn't. More devastantingly, player has no limit on number of ships. Your ship mines at 80% speed of NPC ship? No problem. Assign ten ships to the task. That yields 800% of the NPC output. :rant:
Ironically this is precisely why we'll never get a fix anytime soon unless Egosoft makes a breakthrough somewhere.
Imo Egosoft should bite the bullet and start optimizing for small player sizes instead of large ones.
If players want thousands of ships, they better have the hardware for it instead of Egosoft balancing quality and performance towards performance.
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Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by flywlyx »

silent_elyxyr wrote: Sat, 15. Feb 25, 10:42 they used to have no issue getting in and out of things like Teladi trading stations. Now they seem to get stuck in a giant ship ball in the entrances and take quite a while to solve themselves before they go to dock in a mostly normal manner. While the shipball is funny, it is also very problematic.
Docking has always been a major challenge, while carriers like Raptor and Tokyo boasted impressive hangar bays that made ship launches look spectacular, docking operations were often a chaotic mess.

I think they end up forcing the fighter ignore collision if the fighter can't dock properly.
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Duncaroos
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Joined: Wed, 4. Jan 12, 22:23
x4

Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by Duncaroos »

Falcrack wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 14:58
silent_elyxyr wrote: Fri, 14. Feb 25, 08:13 egosoft please fix
Multi thousand word essays often times do not even get read. You would have better luck if you could limit your suggestion to 3-4 sentences.
I read the first line. Immediately scrolled to scan length.... Internally felt anxious and didnt read. Eyes fixated on your reply and laughed at my sub-conscious behaviour.
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silent_elyxyr
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun, 22. Dec 24, 22:12
x4

Re: Problems with the player faction ship AI

Post by silent_elyxyr »

flywlyx wrote: Sat, 15. Feb 25, 21:22
silent_elyxyr wrote: Sat, 15. Feb 25, 10:42 they used to have no issue getting in and out of things like Teladi trading stations. Now they seem to get stuck in a giant ship ball in the entrances and take quite a while to solve themselves before they go to dock in a mostly normal manner. While the shipball is funny, it is also very problematic.
Docking has always been a major challenge, while carriers like Raptor and Tokyo boasted impressive hangar bays that made ship launches look spectacular, docking operations were often a chaotic mess.

I think they end up forcing the fighter ignore collision if the fighter can't dock properly.
What if they assisted the fighters in some way? I know on the boron carriers the "docking" starts off to the side then your ship gets pulled in. Someting like that for stations and ships too? (tho the F does seem to be good at dockign to the H because it has a good deceleration)

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