Imperial Address : SE big boys, your opinion is requested

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LV
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Imperial Address : SE big boys, your opinion is requested

Post by LV »

It's been hinted and mentioned at a few times but i feel the time is right now to implement this.


Scripting to X2 is simple a 3rd party process for 90% of the time, signings excluded.

Anybody like myself who is heavily hammering the SE will realise that one of the bigest issues is conflicts. Closely followed by balance and worthyness.

My intention is to form a global scripting ring that actually does something and works together in creation (ie scritpers writing different types of scripts to avoid duplication) and decides what is a worthy feature of X2 so script packs with different scripters scripts are bundled.

This is in no way any opinion over the signing process but a simple stance that us scriptwriters can have our say and offer the community as a whole our own option over the game.

This is the best way to get our work across to the masses due to the way the SE has been demonised by the foolish ones amongst us.

Without trying to come across as an asshole the people i'm talking to a the heavyweights of the scripting scene primarily, I'd name names but i cant be arsed :)

The other problem is those german freaks are apparantly working in true german efficiency level's and i get the feeling were being left behind einigermaßen

LV waits to see if there is any interest.
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JustHere4Coffee
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Post by JustHere4Coffee »

probably more useful would be a central database of who's used which commands and for what, and possibly a little more sense from those writing multiple script packages.

for example, if your script wants to call another of your scripts, do it by name and not by command ID - that way the user only has to edit the init file to make it fit into their game, rather than having to trawl through each script manually - this is why, despite my fondest desires, I'm still not using the Teladi Trader 2.2 scripts... or indeed any scripts i've not written myself, I just can't be bothered to make them "fit" with eachother

if you form an all-powerful collective, you'll put more people off releasing their own stuff IMO
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Post by moggy2 »

are you sugesting an "english" scripters union?!

actually yes, I do agree with you.

I have been somewhat discouraged by the lack of colaboration around here. It starts off all well meaning but we just end up concentrating on our own ideas, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone else.
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Post by marklaverty »

Without trying to come across as an asshole the people i'm talking to a the heavyweights of the scripting scene primarily, I'd name names but i cant be arsed
I certainly wouldn't consider myself a heavy weight, but I would support the general idea and offer my help if it's wanted as long as it does not become elitest or exclusionary.

I understand what your saying and agree whole hearted heatedly that co-operation between people on projects would be a huge step forward.
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Post by blackspell »

i agree, too.

constantly switching commands for scripts to avoid conflicts is one of the most annoying things..

count me in :)


edit: some random ideas about it (brainstorming ;)

- interface scripts
scripts register themselves with global vars. if another scripts needs a task accomplished (ie attack ship, secure sector) it calls the interface script
this decides which actual script to use based on the available ones (global var)
problem: most script use different approached for the same task (ie. patrol: some require one sector, some a range of sectors, some work globally)

- dedicated command slots
since there arn't that many free command slot, we probably should categorize them, i.e. fight_16 to fight_19 are for patrolling, fight_20 to fight_24 for attacking and so on
this way only alternative scripts for the same task would conflict, since most users would use only one of them, no real problem

- script categories
maybe general categories like "replacments for offical scripts", "game additions", "playing around / cheating"
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Post by marklaverty »

dedicated command slots
since there arn't that many free command slot, we probably should categorize them, i.e. fight_16 to fight_19 are for patrolling, fight_20 to fight_24 for attacking and so on
this way only alternative scripts for the same task would conflict, since most users would use only one of them, no real problem
now that is the best damm idea I've heard in a long time... :idea:
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Script chanfes

Post by Reaper7 »

Here is a list of changes I made to all the downloade scripts to get them to work together.
Maybe the authors could officialy change there scripts to use the same commands and wares as I have below.
There are some price changes this way compared to that of originals but I have done it in a way that I thought was most balanced.

List of used commands in scripts
--------------------------------

Navigation (2)
--------------
210 XAI Jumpdrive Commands
211 XAI Jumpdrive Commands
212 XAI Jumpdrive Commands
215 XAI Jumpdrive Commands
216 Budjet Plants COMMAND_KENJI_JUMP_TO
218 Xai Corp Jumpdrive Command Software COMMAND_XAI_NAV_JUMPDRIVE
219 Xai Corp Jumpdrive Command Software COMMAND_XAI_NAV_JUMPDRIVE_TARGET
228 Navigation Software ST1 CMD_ST_DOCK_AT
229 Navigation Software ST1 CMD_ST_FLY_TO_SECTOR
230 Navigation Software ST1 CMD_ST_JUMP_AND_DOCK
231 Navigation Software ST1 CMD_ST_JUMP_TO_POSITION


Combat (3)
----------

327 Marks Patrol Commands Assign as wingman
328 Marks Patrol Commands Assign as wingman **missile defence**
329 Marks Patrol Commands Patrol a sector
330 Marks Patrol Commands Patrol 3 Sectors
331 Marks Patrol Commands Patrol 6 Sectors


Trade (4)
---------
410 Teladi Auto Trader
411 Teladi Auto Trader
412 Teladi Auto Trader
412 Teladi Auto Trader
414 Teladi Auto Trader
415 Teladi Auto Trader
416 Budjet Plants COMMAND_KENJI_BUY_OWN
417 Budjet Plants COMMAND_KENJI_BUY_BEST_JUMP
418 Budjet Plants COMMAND_KENJI_MAINTAIN_HOMEBASE
419 Supply Software ST1 CMD_ST_SUPPLY_SECTOR
420 Supply Software ST1 CMD_ST_SUPPLY_STATIONS
421 Xai Corp Trade Command Software COMMAND_XAI_TRADE_AUTO_BUY
422 Xai Corp Trade Command Software COMMAND_XAI_TRADE_AUTO_BUY_SELL


Special (5)
-----------
506 Fleet Commands Ship Assign Fleet
507 Fleet Commands Ship Types Assign Fleet
508 Fleet Commands Ship Types Assign Home
509 Hull Repair System HRS - Repair at Carrier...
510 Xai Corp Auto Mining
513 Xai Corp Trade Command Software COMMAND_XAI_SPECIAL_REMOTE_INSTALL_TMK1
514 Xai Corp Trade Command Software COMMAND_XAI_SPECIAL_REMOTE_INSTALL_TMK1_TPTS
515 Xai Corp IFF Jamer COMMAND_XAI_SPECIAL_JAMMER_ON
516 Xai Corp IFF Jamer COMMAND_XAI_SPECIAL_JAMMER_OFF
517 Xai Corp IFF Jamer COMMAND_XAI_SPECIAL_JAMMER_ON_CS
518 Xai Corp IFF Jamer COMMAND_XAI_SPECIAL_JAMMER_OFF_CS
519 Xai Corp Auto Minning COMMAND_XAI_AUTOM_MINING
520 Xai Corp Auto Minning COMMAND_XAI_AUTOM_COLLECT_ORES
521 Xai Corp Auto Minning COMMAND_XAI_AUTOM_TRANSFER_ORES
522 Engine Tuning MK1 COMMAND_TUNING_CTRL
523 Xai Corp Trade Command Software COMMAND_XAI_SPECIAL_UNINSTALL_ALL_TMK1
524 Xai Fleet Commands COMMAND_XAI_FSUP_RESUPPLY
525 Xai Fleet Commands COMMAND_XAI_FSUP_RESUPPLY_GRP
526 Xai Fleet Commands COMMAND_XAI_FSUP_DROP_WARE
527 Xai Fleet Commands COMMAND_XAI_FSUP_RTRV_DRONES
528 Boron Automated support COMMAND_BASS_REFUEL_CAPSHIPS
529 Boron Automated support COMMAND_BASS_REARM_TRADER
530 Boron Automated support COMMAND_BASS_AQUIRE_DELIVER
531 Boron Automated support COMMAND_BASS_DROP_SATS


Pirate (6)
----------
620 Salvage Software SALVAGE_DERELECT
621 Salvage Software SALVAGE_DERELECT_AUTO


Custom (7)
----------
711 Budjet Plants Budget Plants
712 Budjet Plants Budget Plants - Collect Only
713 Fleet Commands Fleet Regroup at Me
714 Fleet Commands Fleet Move to Pos
715 Fleet Commands Fleet Return Home
716 Budjet Plants COMMAND_KENJI_BUY_BEST_PLAYER
717 Budjet Plants COMMAND_KENJI_SELL_BEST_PLAYER
718 Budjet Plants COMMAND_TOGGLE_DEF_AVAIL
720 Fleet Commands Fleet All Halt
721 Fleet Commands Fleet Assist Me
722 Fleet Commands Fleet Attack Target
723 Fleet Commands Fleet Attack All
724 Fleet Commands Fleet Attack Nearest
725 Fleet Commands Fleet Attack Cap Ship
726 Engine Tuning Mod COMMAND_CALL_MERC_2
727 Engine Tuning Mod COMMAND_CALL_MERC_1
728 Engine Tuning Mod COMMAND_CALL_SEK
730 Teladi Auto Trader
731 Teladi Auto Trader


-------(8)

819 Xai Corp Jumpdrive Command Software COMMAND_XAI_GEN_JUMPDRIVE_STATUS
825 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software COMMAND_XAI_AP_STATUS
826 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software COMMAND_XAI_AP_RESET
827 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software Subspace Scan Target
828 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software Subspace Scan Range
829 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software Xai Report Select
830 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software Xai Report Target
831 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software Xai Report Sector


Turret(9)
---------


List of Wares and Products used in scripts
------------------------------------------

5763 Xai Corp Advanced Combat AI Software
5773 Xai Corp Fleet Support Ship Software
5783 Navigation Software ST1
5793 Mercenary Licence
5803 XaiCorp Trade Commands MK1
5813 Boron Automated Support System
5823 Supply Software ST1
5833 XaiCorp Jumpdrive Commands
5843 Xai Corp Advanced Combat Subspace scanner
5853 Tuning Unit MK1
5863 Hull repair System
5873 Trade extensions MK3
5883 Salvage License
5893 Xai Corporation's IFF Jammer

7000703 ECM Charge
7000803 Repair and Debug AI
7000903 Spare Parts


Race Names
----------

764 Mercenary
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moggy2
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Post by moggy2 »

could that list be merged with the one in the handbook at XaiCorp: http://www.msci-handbook.tk/

I'm kind of busy at the moment... :roll:
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Re: Script chanfes

Post by Burianek »

Reapper wrote: There are some price changes this way compared to that of originals but I have done it in a way that I thought was most balanced.
There's nothing stopping you from changing ware prices in that tware file if you wanted right? except for the fact that you'd have to include a small mod along w/ the script of course. But if you're running out of ware slots w/prices that make sense, that's always an option.

If you need a modder, or modding questions answered, I'm happy to help by the way. But I understand scripting needs more collaboration than modding.
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Re: Script chanfes

Post by Kailric »

Reapper wrote:Here is a list of changes I made to all the downloade scripts to get them to work together.
Maybe the authors could officialy change there scripts to use the same commands and wares as I have below.
There are some price changes this way compared to that of originals but I have done it in a way that I thought was most balanced.
Yes that is a great idea. I already have all the commands listed if your post for the Advanced AI project at those command slots. And I am willing to work with anyone in the future to make sure of no or very few conflicts.
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Post by holo_doctor »

The really concern is the lack of modding space for the new Mods that are comming out.
the room

Egosoft was to have no idea that the space they left was going to be filled so quickly

With only 10 or so Upgrades and 3 ware slots this is the most cramped area of the game

Ships is another as there was no real room left other than replacing ships they where not implimented in the game itself eg Xenon H

Hopefully in future patches egosoft will be alowed to widen these to incluse more space for mods. If they going to so calledc SIGN scripts the current space will be filled very very quickly leaving modders no room to grow

For the moement we playing shuffle the script and we starting to feal the pinch. (by the way i see no point in having like 4 trading script that do the same thing thats just silly)

I call for scripters to start to be a bit more economical is there use of the current resource space we have. Try to condence console commands. Use existing wares where apropriate not having to add your own.

Its agreed they we need somewhere or someone to help get script orginized into useable packages that would have script that could work together. Warmod is a good example of this.
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LV
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Post by LV »

Ok it looks as if there is enough interest so i shall go on.


1. This is a group not a clan or anything along those lines or we shall end up with some clipboard boy wanting to be in charge and spending more time arguing over what we call ourselves than actually working. Names and other such triviality are simply not important.


2. Imo we need 2 communication mediums. ^^ look up guys to that java chat link, I think we should hijack that as our scripting chat as it's not used much and live debate helps peeps with probs and also mods/scripts can be debated and idea's worked on using this method. Using the chat also gives peeps with limited scripting knowledge or those with a simple desire to help the opportunity to be involved.

3. Moggy's wiki can be used as a way to develop stuff also as text can be added and edited by all users to keep things tidy and accurate.

4. Anybody who wants onboard should list what they are working on and also have their scripts available for the others to download and work on also, one of the main things i'm on with at the moment is writing missions. once one is complete are certain triggers are hit the next is called. This way we can build more than just a script and help each other out more.

I can create a group upload ftp and maintain links there but to be honest it would be nice if someone who is a web boy and is into this sort of thing did it as i much prefer spending my time crashing to desktop.


5. There needs to be a small level of secrecy over any beta's we work on so the group should have 2 levels. 1 chat/feedback/testing. 2. actual coding where the workers/testers are the only ones with access

6. we should maintain a way for anybody to have some involvment if they so wish if that be running the web based side or tidying up or testing is irrelevant, I just want to make sure we don't become some sort of elitish tossbags :)

7. Rules :D

Simple :- if you help your in, if you don't i'll throw you out. That is the only authority i ask for as i've seen too many projects destroyed by petty bickering. Drama Queens will not be tolerated, If you can't take criticsm stay away.

Final decision on any script is down to it's origional author. If the rest of the group disagree with a script or it's balance we make it so it can be included with any package we provide but keep it seperate.

And finally nobody is in charge. The hierarcy (sp) will be set up on the basis of work, The more scripts you make the higher the level you are in the decision making process.

PM me if your still interested and i'll start to make a list of names, just add to the pm what you actually intend to do so i get some idea ;)

I have abosolutly no intention of running this thing it's just someone was needed to drag us all up of our lazy arses. Once this is done i'll soak up into the rest of the group, I don't need any power or status around here as i'm already a member of The Empire :)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the topic of space for scripts one of the ways i have got around this is making a console.

Its in at COMMAND_PIRACY_24 or something and all it does is ask for a number when used. The corresponding number then calls a script meaning some of my scripts can be used without the need of linkage.

Some scripts obviously need the wares and command adding but others don't.

The biggest issue at the moment is the lack of prices available meaning we cant add to stations. One of my first tasks will be to lobby EGO to include more, failing that to get them to tell me if their not doing so we can work accordingly.


How does all that sound?
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Kailric
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Post by Kailric »

Pmed you
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Post by Kailric »

One thing we could really use is some testers. Its hard to find every little bug, however minewt or major, all by your self. Plus for those of us that spend most of our time scripting instead of playing the game, we don't have much time to testing others scripts either.

I would suggest we go on a tester recruitment...find thoses players who enjoy the game but don't have a lot of time, or the patiences to learn to script, but would love to see X2 improved and get them to help out. :?:
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Reaper7
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Post by Reaper7 »

I would be glad to help as a tester :)
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Post by LV »

anybody willing to test is welcome

just hit the pm button , we are 5 up to now :)
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Post by JustHere4Coffee »

comment on the list of commands used/available:

don't forget that Egosoft have "reserved" commands 0-15 for ALL command types, and as/when(/if) they get around to releasing signed scripts, those will probably start causing new conflicts - so would it not be a good idea to forestall that and start working within the 16-31 range exclusively?
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Post by LV »

Ego have reserved 1-15 but that's for signed scripts imo, not an issue and if it becomes one i'll just have to imperialise them ;)
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Post by JustHere4Coffee »

they reserved 0 as well... why would they not?

and as it's a potential problem that matches what you're trying to avoid with the user-made scripts, why not deal with it now? it'll save everyone having to re-install stuff at a later date, which is surely a good thing?
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Post by LV »

every script will be over 15 :)

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