Let us reverse-engineer and produce the "limited" ships aka. unrestricted blueprints

[Caedes91]

Please let us produce the Astrid, Erlking and its turrets, Boron Hydra Regal, Xenon ships and weaponry, and all Timelines ships

There is no value in restricting them. Terran high power weapons it was understandable, only if Terrans actually had good fighters to use them on. Boron too with their fishy ships.

But some fancy yacht, some variant of the Hydra you can already build, Xenon ships and equipment, based on outdated Terrran tech, then finally useless racers and last-gen ships from Timelines?

Stop this trend of restricting ALL the new content, you charge people real money for.

Xenon and their equipment were made by Terrans. Get this: The new capturable Xenon ships are old Terraformer tech from the past, which - unlike the newer Xenon - all even come with a cockpit/bridge made for humans. The old Terran ships were made by Terrans, the HEPT was a Commonwealth weapon widely used not even that long ago. So why can't we use the new Electromagnetic weapons/turrets on Terran ships, the HEPT on Commonwealth ships, the old man-made Xenon weapons on other ships than Xenon?

What is even the point of modular ships then. Let the player truly mix and match equipment? Building our own ships is a major part of the gameplay and the freedom the player always had in that regard. Why are you going out of your way to take away options and limit everything?

Now the Commonwealth can't equip their own tech, Terrans can't use their own weapons on their own ships; it's absurd and frustrating tbh. I finished Timelines and hated it, but I was just cheering up after claiming the rewards in the real game. I thought that at least some light at the end of the tunnel... only for you and the overpriced DLC to give me a last kick in the face before disappearing into obscurity.
Because apparantly you are not allowed to have fun with the things you paid for it seems.

Again, what is the point. To reiterate: It's a singleplayer game! Other than the player nobody will mix equipment. It makes no sense at all. Just make it available and let the player decide if and where they use the new stuff they unlocked. That's the least I expect from a sandbox game.

[xant]

You more or less took my earlier post 1:1, so you can bet that I'm going to agree with you as strongly as I can possibly do. I want to use the new equipment, not just on some select few ships.

The argument with some (note: some, not all) Terran weapons in CoH was that it required the high-powered energy matrix or something like this, which only the Terrans had, due to their tech advantage. With Borons they said the style and texture of the equipment didn't really fit with the old ships, so they gave the reason that it was semi-organic equipment now and therefore not compatible. Ok, I get that. Although that shouldn't apply to S and M ship weaponry.

But with the HEPT, or the old Terran weapons (which the old Terraformers as well as the old Terran ships use), there is absolutely no reason to make that exclusive. I was really looking forward to fit my Osakas with the new electromagnetic M turrets, because Pulse is a bit weak and Bolt is highly inaccurate. Since I like Terran weapons on Terran ships, there's not much else for those slots.

It would've been a good addition to the sandbox, to have some of those "old" new weapons. Timelines would leave its mark on the sandbox with more than just a few trophy ships. Huge shame that arbitrary limitations apply, in a singleplayer game.

[Nerwesta]

Yeah, 100% agreed. The content on sandbox is looking like an afterthought, it's frankly painful.

[Sao t'Lp]

My guess is that this is by design. Like that you are not "forced" to play through Timelines in order to unlock everything the sandbox has to offer.

[xant]

My guess is that this is by design. Like that you are not "forced" to play through Timelines in order to unlock everything the sandbox has to offer.

You mean the same way you're "forced" to get reputation with DLC factions, to access their ships and stations?

What even is the Timelines reward, if you do buy the DLC and unlock everything from Timelines for the sandbox? I want stuff that I can use, not some trophy ships that are incompatible with anything from the game. It doesn't feel special, it feels like a punishment. I have to look at all those new additions to the game, but can't use any of it outside of a few select ships with mediocre stats (Odachi being the exception).

[LameFox]

I don't understand why they abandoned reverse engineering. It was a fun way to play in X3, stealing ships and reproducing them yourself to use them against your enemies. It's a much, much more active and entertaining way to get things than sitting around while miners and traders make rep and money and then buying a bunch of BPs.

Of course, X3 had its own limitations, like how you had to buy stations. In X4 with a reverse engineering mod it's even better, because you could take literally anything and make it for yourself. It unlocks a whole different hostile kind of gameplay that vanilla is devoid of.

[Sao t'Lp]

You mean the same way you're "forced" to get reputation with DLC factions, to access their ships and stations?

No. Reputation grinding is part of X4's core gameplay loop. It was not new nor exclusive to Split Vendetta, CoT, Avarice or KE. However the rather strict "story mode" that Timelines is, is not part of the core gameplay loop. It's something completly new and it might not be something for everybody. And in this regard it makes sense to restrict the rewards to throphys so that players who are not interested don't miss out on super important stuff. Otherwise you get comments like "To unlock XY I have to play a story I'm not interested in? What kind of bull is this? This is a sandbox game!".

For me thats ok. I played through most of the missions in Timelines, had fun and did not even bother with the rewards. For me it felt more like a new game inside the X4 engine, more like a RPG "demo" and not like an expansion to the sandbox.

[iceshard]

Otherwise you get comments like "To unlock XY I have to play a story I'm not interested in? What kind of bull is this? This is a sandbox game!".

And instead you are rather rightly getting people commenting on how they bought a DLC for a sandbox game and none of the new content appears in the sandbox.

[xant]

No. Reputation grinding is part of X4's core gameplay loop. It was not new nor exclusive to Split Vendetta, CoT, Avarice or KE. However the rather strict "story mode" that Timelines is, is not part of the core gameplay loop. It's something completly new and it might not be something for everybody. And in this regard it makes sense to restrict the rewards to throphys so that players who are not interested don't miss out on super important stuff. Otherwise you get comments like "To unlock XY I have to play a story I'm not interested in? What kind of bull is this? This is a sandbox game!".

For me thats ok. I played through most of the missions in Timelines, had fun and did not even bother with the rewards. For me it felt more like a new game inside the X4 engine, more like a RPG "demo" and not like an expansion to the sandbox.

I don't really get your arugment here. To make people not feel bad about not buying/playing Timelines, its rewards are taken away from everyone who actually bought and played it? That's borderline insane!

Expansions offer an experience, and they come with rewards to use as you see fit. It doesn't matter if the story missions are part of the sandbox, or if they're their own thing. The important part is that you can then use the rewards within the core experience of the game, which is the sandbox. Making the rewards as unrewarding as can be, really damages what little Timelines already does for the sandbox. And for what, so that people not playing Timelines don't have to feel bad?

Don't buy CoH, no Terran ships/equipment for you. Don't buy SV, no Split ships/equipment for you. Don't buy KE, no Boron ships for you. Don't buy ToA, no ships/equipment/protectyon for you. Don't buy Timelines, no legacy rewards for you. It's as simple as that. And I want to point out that the Xenon stuff is actually part of the free 7.0 update, so your argument falls apart as early as that.

[Nerwesta]

You mean the same way you're "forced" to get reputation with DLC factions, to access their ships and stations?

No. Reputation grinding is part of X4's core gameplay loop. It was not new nor exclusive to Split Vendetta, CoT, Avarice or KE. However the rather strict "story mode" that Timelines is, is not part of the core gameplay loop. It's something completly new and it might not be something for everybody. And in this regard it makes sense to restrict the rewards to throphys so that players who are not interested don't miss out on super important stuff. Otherwise you get comments like "To unlock XY I have to play a story I'm not interested in? What kind of bull is this? This is a sandbox game!".

For me thats ok. I played through most of the missions in Timelines, had fun and did not even bother with the rewards. For me it felt more like a new game inside the X4 engine, more like a RPG "demo" and not like an expansion to the sandbox.

I wish I could share your optimism, I would even retract half of my comments if this expansion was pitched as a side project and not a fully fledged ( yearly ) DLC with full price.
But here we are, going through Kingdom's End and this, it's really painful. Every single DLC had it's fair share of plots / scripted quests, I can't fathom how this one is particular. The lore we get through this isn't even special nor well conveyed, I mean I had to look up online ( after paying a supposedly lore heavy DLC ) to know why we got these racing missions.

Really if someone can tell me a good argument as to why these missions feel special, I would be happy to know, so far it's just what've been known all around from the various DLC, without the continuity of a plot, and without anything that sticks to the open-universe. That's a lot of minus.

[gbjbaanb]

I don't understand why they abandoned reverse engineering. It was a fun way to play in X3, stealing ships and reproducing them yourself to use them against your enemies. It's a much, much more active and entertaining way to get things than sitting around while miners and traders make rep and money and then buying a bunch of BPs.

Of course, X3 had its own limitations, like how you had to buy stations. In X4 with a reverse engineering mod it's even better, because you could take literally anything and make it for yourself. It unlocks a whole different hostile kind of gameplay that vanilla is devoid of.

Egosoft. always 2 steps forward and 1 step back.

[lionroot]

.

[StoneLegionYT]

derp, misunderstood.

[xant]

Maybe unlock the timelines content into the world right away

This thread here is not about how the ships are unlocked, but rather that we can't build the Xenon ships after capturing and researching them.

And more importantly, it's about that we can't use the equipment of any of the ships on something other than those few specific ships. I wan't the electromagnetic M turrets not just on the Sapporo, I want it on my Osaka. I want the electromagnetic cannon on my Katana, not just the Odachi. I want the HEPT on my Pulsar, not just that one unique Xperimental.

I don't mind jumping through a few hoops to unlock stuff. But I don't like arbitrary limits for the sake of limits. It was already bad that not a single piece of equipment from the Borons could be used on anything other than Boron ships. I didn't say anything then. But now that Terrans can't use Terran equipment, that Argons can't use Argon equipment, it's really getting out of hand.

[Witzzard]

I think "it's a sandbox" isn't an arugment for anything really. Almost all sandbox games have rules and limits in which the sandbox plays. One of the most common rules is that not everything can be achieved by the player themselves (be it Archotech in Rimworld or the highest level weapons in Kenshi - was it Edgewalker?; can't remember the name now).
And i think it's just right that we can't copy every ship, becuase that takes away from them being percieved as unique. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to gain more blueprints by reverse engineering things, just that i don't think we should e.g. be able to built a second Xperimental or Astrid or Erlking or the Xenon ships.

Having more equipment options per ship, or even improved equipment is something i'm mostly on board with, though i also don't think every ship should be able to equip every weapon (if alone for the 3d models not fiting). E.g. i don't think every ship should get the Astrid turrets.

But that's all a personal opinion on the matter. So be free to feel differently about it

[Sao t'Lp]

I don't really get your arugment here.

My argument was that Timelines introduces a new game mode which is vastly different from the sandbox. Therefore Egosoft MIGHT have thought that they don't want to hide new content for the sandbox behind a game mode which sandbox players might not enjoy. But I am not Egosoft so I can only speculate.

And I want to point out that the Xenon stuff is actually part of the free 7.0 update, so your argument falls apart as early as that.

This thread here is not about how the ships are unlocked, but rather that we can't build the Xenon ships after capturing and researching them.

My mistake. Back to topic then.

[Genoscythe]

I think cross-compatibility would be balanced in certai nscenarios. Restricting only certai nterran weapons was a good move, for example, because they are just straight upgrades to some existing weapons, the same goes for some boron weapons for balancing and lore reasons possibly. For the new gear i do not understand it, the TER EM turret is a downgraded ion pulser, the new ships not being able to use all shields is quite problematic.

The Xperimental shuttle for example has only one generator with 800 shields, it collapses immediately when fighting S ships and there is no way to reequip it. The HEPT or EM guns are not overpowered when used on other terran or commonwealth ships. Same for odachi, there is even a Frontier MK3 M generator and it simply cannot run it for some reason. What's the point of capturing xenon ships if we cannot use their equipment and re-kit them? The H would be great with flaks, but far from overpowered, the same goes for the B not having access to good engines or shields. This makes them gimmicks.

I flew an LX in X3 for a very long time as player ship, as it was a good heavy fighter, and I have no idea why these limitations exist even for non mass-producable ships. It defeats the point of "player ship" kind of ships. Look at the Astrid from Avarice? Who flies this thing instead of just putting it on an Erlking as point defense? Just let it use normal engines and sacrifice boost speed for actually having strafe and deceleration. Make unique ships good and customizable, it will not break anything and just create more variety for players to express themselves.

[xant]

The new 7.10 beta patch addressed some grievances, i.e. giving the Xperimental better shields, or the Sapporo a main battery (which is a rocket launcher).

But the basic problem still remains: I cannot install a XEN M Plasma Cutter on a Katana, I cannot use the Odachi's Electromagnetic Cannon on my Falx, I cannot install the M Electromagnetic Turret on my Osaka, the HEPT can't go on my Argon-made fighters etc.

So I want to emphasize that I'm still not okay with those extreme limitations.I mean, if someone doesn't want to use those new weapons on their old ships, fine, then don't use them. But if someone wants to, they can't. It doesn't make any sense, not lore-wise and not gameplay-wise.

I can't look at the new ships without thinking of the wasted potential of all those new weapons not being compatible with any of my normal ships. Here's hoping for the next patch then.

[Caedes91]

I don't understand. Who benefits from these ships and equipment being limited? Not only the Timelines stuff, but also from previous DLC.

This is not an MMO which needs to be balanced for PVP. There is not even an asynchronous multiplayer. Who are you going to grief and with what exactly? Other than taking screenshots, the unique ships only end up in a garage. I get, that you wanted some kind of mission reward, but can't you just give us the unrestricted blueprints as reward instead?
You are not are not devaluing anything by giving the player the possibility to build more of them and freely customize everything. Because these things never had any value to begin with. I can't stress this enough, but it''s a singleplayer sandbox game.

Why waste your time designing, in some cases, beautiful models in the first place, just to artificially limit or in the case of the Oberth and most of the paintjobs, let it rot within the game files?
Just give the player the agency to decide for themselves.
I, for example, will only ever play as a Terran. This is why I bought your game at release, but I only started playing once COH came out. Others like to limit themselves in different ways.

It neither makes sense from a lore/story perspective. We have freaking Boso Ta, who invented teleporting living beings across the galaxy, not even centimeters off. Why can't you then reverse engineer and produce "old tech" on current day ships and vice versa?

As xant correctly points out: Terrans can't use their own equipment on their own ships, and Commonwealth can't do the same either. Why?

The Xenon ships and especially the H look really cool, but as of now, they are nothing more than tokens. They are too much of a hassle to obtain and yet are not good enough to fly yourself. By the time that you can terraform and get the elite marines necessary to board an H, you already have no use for it anymore. And since they are so limited, giving them to NPC is also not an option. Again, we ended up with tokens, stashed away somewhere safe.
The fact that you can't build them despite capturing them intact or completing the research is even more baffling, considering that these are just old terraformer hulls.
So nothing should stop you from building them since you can already build much more advanced stuff.
I really like the Impulse projector and the needler turrets from the Xenon. But it hurts me in the head so much, that I will never be able to use them on my ships. Same with Ion Rail guns... The things are already there, in the game. Nobody is asking you to create new things, just switch some flags in the game files, please. So close and yet so far...

As of now, your game is severely lacking any diversity in equipment department. Everything too samey.

Since the launch trailer for timelines I looked so much forward to the human ships and more equipment. So it's such a shame to me that they are useless besides looking good in some kind of museum setting.

Can somebody on the dev team just confirm, whether this kind of exclusivity is going to persist in future updates and games or not?

[G315t]

Building the Astrid would be great.

Imagine building a shipyard not to build warships, but to build luxury yachts and space racers for rich Teladi trust fund hatchlings. I would love to do that.