Physics for X2?

[JetBlack]

Hi Everyone,

I really like most aspects of XBTF and X-Tension; except
for the space physics. Its really unrealistic that there is
only 30-40km between north and south gates of any system.

Also, I prefer the Newtonian physics and realistic distances
in games like Frontier and FFE.

Does anyone know what Egosoft are doing on X2 with regards
to space physics?

[Apothos]

Same flight physics as BtF and XT.

Iirc, its 50km from gate to opposite gate, and who's to say what is realistic about the positioning of them?!

[fireblade]

the positioning of gates is independent of physics contraints the can be position anywhere irespective of where the destination gate is or an other gate in a sector is

also a sector is only a very small part of a system as none of the races have any propulsion system capable of interplanetary travel at any decent speed apart from gates and jumpdrives

[Mercenary]

Just a theory...

With gates being so close together ships never really need to travel at extreme high velocity to get anywhere. With less emphasis on rear thruster propulsion then more power can be distributed to control thrusters which compensate for the effect of newtonian motion in space.

Just my thought...

[Rogue]

Just a theory...

With gates being so close together ships never really need to travel at extreme high velocity to get anywhere. With less emphasis on rear thruster propulsion then more power can be distributed to control thrusters which compensate for the effect of newtonian motion in space.

Just my thought...

Thats cool I can go with that. Kinda.

Play JumpGate.

Gates are randomly placed, no hyperdrives, newtonian physics however still in full effect, but no really huge distances between jumps.

Makes combat....interesting.

Keep the non-newtonian, you'll have an easier life.

[JetBlack]

Well sure, jumpgates are yet to be invented in the real world
so maybe 50km distance is realistic; but somehow I dont think
so.

What really is unrealistic is the non-newtonian physics,
the ships top speeds (as in too slow) and some other oddities.

I love the two games but I think they miss out on that great
feeling of massive distances you get from the Frontier
and FFE physics models. If they could combine those
the best of both worlds..Egosoft would have genuine
challenger to the Braben throne.

[Mercenary]

Hate to disagree, but if I built jumpgates that allowed me to go from one solar system to the next then I'd put them close together.

Why? you ask, well personally I wouldn't want to fly 1/2 million km's if the sector I'd entered was just a place I had to go through to get somewhere else.

What the X Universe missed is the stuff outside the region of the gates. Like planets, gas clouds, large asteroid fields. More stations which could be spread out a bit further.

As for the Newtonion motion, okay more realistic but normally I really found it painfully slow for combat unless you were at slow / nearly identical speed. Otherwise you spend half the time flying around each other until close enough to do some shooting.

If I didn't fancy a fight I'd just autopilot on a station. Once the ship was pointing the right way from the hyperspace jump point, switch the autopilot off again and accelerate upto some massively way over the top speed switch off the engines. And within the last million miles switch on the autopilot and instantly find the ship docking with the station. Great tactic if your low on fuel...

[pjknibbs]

Same flight physics as BtF and XT.

Iirc, its 50km from gate to opposite gate, and who's to say what is realistic about the positioning of them?!

64km, actually.

[Gandalf The White]

Now hear is the funny thing, just to put this into perspective. The distance between where I used to live in London and up hear in Belton, is about 170 miles. You wouldn't fit that in a sector!

[pjknibbs]

Now hear is the funny thing, just to put this into perspective. The distance between where I used to live in London and up hear in Belton, is about 170 miles. You wouldn't fit that in a sector!

Well, technically you wouldn't fit that between the jump gates--the sectors go out a lot further than that (Commander Jamieson has pictures on his site taken more than 9000km from the gates).

[Gandalf The White]

Now hear is the funny thing, just to put this into perspective. The distance between where I used to live in London and up hear in Belton, is about 170 miles. You wouldn't fit that in a sector!

Well, technically you wouldn't fit that between the jump gates--the sectors go out a lot further than that (Commander Jamieson has pictures on his site taken more than 9000km from the gates).

Oh true enough. But,, seeing as most of the activity takes place in the main square so to speak, that's all I was using. But I do take your point. But I think at the vry least, it would be more fun to have larger sectors. Or should I say, larger squares. Or, to have some of the trading activity outside the square.

[Apothos]

64km, actually.

lol, k.

[Deleted User]

Personally as a science fiction writer I have no problem with the jump gate distances or the lack of newtonian physics. Consider this, all of the races in the X universe are technologically advanced and probably left behind newtonian physics centuries ago along with chemical thrusters/rockets etc. Science has recently proved the existence of zero point vacuum energy (I have not made this up) which would allow space craft to draw energy directly from the fabric of the universe itself and as a result be capable of generating enormous amounts of power to support onboard electrical systems, armament and the engine. Every day physics teaches us that the dreams of science fiction will surely be the science fact of some future generation, as for the thrusters the best bet is some advanced type of space warp that uses an artificial gravity wave generator to collapse space before the ship whilst simultaneously expanding it behind the vessell thus the craft would move through the universe smoothly and with little or no inertia oblivious to large gravity fields as generated by planet. A noticable side effect of such a reactionless thruster would be an enormous amount of heat and light and stray ions collecting at the thruster assembly hence the engine glow at the back of the ship. As for the close proximity of jump gates, it seems to me that since the races of the x universe are economicly motivated then stations and jump gates would be positioned where an economic gain can be made, such as around a point of interest like an asteroid cloud where mining could take place etc, and these could be anywhere in the system. If it's a habitable system then it would make sense to have the jump gates near the main world so that goods can be brought to and from the planet bound populace. Likewise profits often depend upon how quickly products can be moved from source to destination. Having jump gates too far apart would seriously hinder profitability because travel times would lengthen. In the game I own a Paranid Pegasus that has been engine tuned to the max. I use it as a scout ship because it quickly covers vast distances in very little time (apparent time with the S.E.T.A. switched on) and I have visited the upper atmospheres of some of the background planets and have even burnt up in one over a 1000 km away from a jump gate. Even with the fastest ship in the game travel from one planet to another millions of miles away but within the same system would still take almost forever, this I find to be quite realistic. As an improvement to a future version of X I would like to see planets at different orbital distances but within the same star system connected by jump gates, so that a player could explore an entire star system if he or she so wished. I personally like the thought of straying away from civilisation and setting up outposts on the frontier even if that frontier is still within a well travelled and civilised star system. I would also like to see completely empty unexplored frontier sectors in the game. Hope this gives you something to think about...

[X-Warrior B AS]

If I didn't fancy a fight I'd just autopilot on a station. Once the ship was pointing the right way from the hyperspace jump point, switch the autopilot off again and accelerate upto some massively way over the top speed switch off the engines. And within the last million miles switch on the autopilot and instantly find the ship docking with the station. Great tactic if your low on fuel...

Hey, you stole my trick

[cappedup]

Id like it to be possible to fly past the gate, keep going for miles and reach the sector you would have if youd used the gate. would feel more like you were flying around one big 'space' rather than 20-30 little ones. But its probably impossible to create. You could hide all sorts of interesting stuff there.

[pjknibbs]

Id like it to be possible to fly past the gate, keep going for miles and reach the sector you would have if youd used the gate. would feel more like you were flying around one big 'space' rather than 20-30 little ones. But its probably impossible to create. You could hide all sorts of interesting stuff there.

Given that the original complaint was of a lack of realism, and this would make it even LESS realistic, I wouldn't quite see the point.

As I've said before, I think the perfect compromise was achieved by I-War 2--the fact jumpgates have to be in particular locations means they are often a long distance apart, and you have to use a "lightspeed" drive (which is nothing of the kind--if you work it out it takes you up to around 30x lightspeed!) to move between them. Great feeling of space, and the physics system was near flawless.

Now, if only they'd thought to include a decent GAME in there somewhere, that game might have been enough to break my X addiction...

[Woffin]

I think that the physics system is perfect as it is. Leave it alone! j/k But seriously, if we went and chaged the physics system that we have been used to for the last few years then we would by flying all over the place at first. It would spoil our flight. All our old tricks would be gone and then the universe wouldn't follow on from each other. I think that the physics are an intergral part of X and if we were to change them, then it wouldn't feel like we were playing X then.

Just think though, we rely on the physics to make our capturing possible. If we were to use newtonian laws, then we would slide right past our target and wouldn't have a chance of killing it, never mind capturing it. We would slide into destroyers when going head n at them with Hornet missils. Consider the newtonian effect on the missils too, you cant do it for somethings and not for others.

Lastly, think of the beginners. They wont have enugh money to buy a Docking Computer or even a MARS Device. How do you expect them to land. Sector distance is short to begin with but most beginners would just slide past the station.

You have to take it all into consideration first,
Best Regards
Danfin

[Woffin]

Sector length or size doesn't matter about trade really. I mean, I set up a lseetower factory and a few supply factories aswell about 100km away from the center of Argon Prime and yet they still flourished and made good money. I know that it's not very good to do this as it takes absolutely ages but I'm just trying to prove that in the X games so far, I dont think the npc has a sense of distance...they just fly.

I mean ok, it would be great to have bigger sectors but it would need bigger load times and things. Also, if we're going to be having loads of new sectors too, and sectors are going to be alot bigger then we have a problem. If egosoft make sectors too big and put too much stuff in them then they might have to consider using two discs. Having to swap the discs every time you go the a certain part of the universe would be quiet annoying.


Best Regards
Danfin

[Deleted User]

Yeah, that would be good but in order to get there in anything like a meaningful time you would need to ge very, very fast, and hence not need the gates...