https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m6fF9Q ... sp=sharing
I issued an order for a fleet of 3 Odysseus E and 1 Zeus E to attack an SCA Behemoth. Every ship in this fleet is faster than it, and it's not even actively trying to outrun them, but they languish uselessly behind it. Some observable behaviours:
-Seemingly moving toward where it used to be, updating too slowly to ever meet it except by accident.
-Not engaging travel drive over long distances.
-Dropping out of travel drive after a short time for unknown reasons. Can be one ship or whole fleet.
-Converging and ramming each other.
-Pausing forward movement during conventional flight to (apparently?) rotate to a new heading before starting to move again.
If the ship does actually die at any point (most likely to laser towers) reloading should net repeats of this behaviour until you've seen everything covered here, and maybe more.
[#1729][6.20] Fleet failing to pursue slower target
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LameFox
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[#1729][6.20] Fleet failing to pursue slower target
Last edited by Tranxalive on Fri, 16. Feb 24, 15:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Including Mantis Report number.
Reason: Including Mantis Report number.
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LameFox
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Re: [6.20] Fleet failing to pursue slower target
For reference in my actual game they have just killed it after ~25 minutes.
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LameFox
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Re: [6.20] Fleet failing to pursue slower target
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10p9ZJp ... sp=sharing
Further evidence of this fleet's generally terrible ability to move, even without an enemy. In this save I've split off the two XL ships to first try just destroyers. In sending the fleet from the gate it's parked near to the one at the far end of the system, I see:
-fleet leader enters travel drive while other ships are pointing in weird directions, leaving some behind.
-the ships on either side of the leader converge on it before it's even half way there, ramming it out of travel drive.
-remaining ships in travel drive don't stop, leaving the leader of the fleet behind.
-the ships that originally stayed behind *are still there* when the leader reaches the half way point.
-leader catches up to the escorts that overshot, but the whole formation drops out of travel drive. At this point the trailing ships FINALLY engage travel drive, so I felt it might have decided to wait for them after all. But when they catch up, the formation never re-engages travel drive. Some ships are also lagging behind and not actually in formation, which may be hindering things.
Around that time I engaged SETA to watch them crawl to the finish line. One destroyer, lagging behind the formation, actually just stopped flying. I told the leader to stop and "recall subordinates" and it began moving again. I then re-issued the order to fly near the gate, and once again the leader and one escort left the others behind.
On reloading the save, I issued the order to once more fly to the far gate. Results were extremely similar, even down to the two ships getting left behind because, after the fleet turned, they were facing the wrong way. One still lagged behind. Two still converged on the leader and rammed, causing some to overshoot. The one that stayed behind with the leader actually hit it *again* this time before it caught up with the overshot escorts, and then they rammed when it finally caught up too.
I hope these behaviours are replicable as they seem to repeat quite readily for me. If you want to make this even more horrifying, add the carrier and supply ship back to the fleet.
Further evidence of this fleet's generally terrible ability to move, even without an enemy. In this save I've split off the two XL ships to first try just destroyers. In sending the fleet from the gate it's parked near to the one at the far end of the system, I see:
-fleet leader enters travel drive while other ships are pointing in weird directions, leaving some behind.
-the ships on either side of the leader converge on it before it's even half way there, ramming it out of travel drive.
-remaining ships in travel drive don't stop, leaving the leader of the fleet behind.
-the ships that originally stayed behind *are still there* when the leader reaches the half way point.
-leader catches up to the escorts that overshot, but the whole formation drops out of travel drive. At this point the trailing ships FINALLY engage travel drive, so I felt it might have decided to wait for them after all. But when they catch up, the formation never re-engages travel drive. Some ships are also lagging behind and not actually in formation, which may be hindering things.
Around that time I engaged SETA to watch them crawl to the finish line. One destroyer, lagging behind the formation, actually just stopped flying. I told the leader to stop and "recall subordinates" and it began moving again. I then re-issued the order to fly near the gate, and once again the leader and one escort left the others behind.
On reloading the save, I issued the order to once more fly to the far gate. Results were extremely similar, even down to the two ships getting left behind because, after the fleet turned, they were facing the wrong way. One still lagged behind. Two still converged on the leader and rammed, causing some to overshoot. The one that stayed behind with the leader actually hit it *again* this time before it caught up with the overshot escorts, and then they rammed when it finally caught up too.
I hope these behaviours are replicable as they seem to repeat quite readily for me. If you want to make this even more horrifying, add the carrier and supply ship back to the fleet.
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LameFox
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Re: [6.20] Fleet failing to pursue slower target
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Yi3b2L ... sp=sharing
Continuing the saga of this fleet... here they are about to attack a fearsome Solar Power Plant. Upon ordering this attack, I have seen:
-ships ramming each other. Not even in travel drive this time, they just fly into one another at low speeds as if the other ship didn't exist.
-ships trying to park in the same place and coming to rest very close, even rubbing against one another. This causes even more collisions when they want to turn later.
-ships that are rubbing each other flickering apart and back, as if the game can't decide if they have merged and should teleport apart or not.
-ships charging the station to do melee (of course).
-ships that weren't initially charging the station deciding to do so apropos of nothing. No module had yet died to block their view.
-ships told to stop charging the station get a flee command when attacked, which keeps cancelling my ability to micro them. Please add "ignore" to the override for this, it's horrendous that it prevents player control of a ship.
-the carrier charging ahead for unclear reasons. It's on 'defend' and the lead ship wasn't attacked, and the carrier wasn't attacking the station. It just moved ahead to park there.
Once again, I loaded the save a few times to watch this play out. You might not get all of these at once, and some runs even went relatively smoothly (though there was always at least one melee destroyer), but many of these things occur quite frequently. The carrier thing might not come up at all—I got it twice. The flicker-teleport is very random, but I do see it a lot when the fleet attacks a structure, as the rubbing they do to trigger it is very common.
Continuing the saga of this fleet... here they are about to attack a fearsome Solar Power Plant. Upon ordering this attack, I have seen:
-ships ramming each other. Not even in travel drive this time, they just fly into one another at low speeds as if the other ship didn't exist.
-ships trying to park in the same place and coming to rest very close, even rubbing against one another. This causes even more collisions when they want to turn later.
-ships that are rubbing each other flickering apart and back, as if the game can't decide if they have merged and should teleport apart or not.
-ships charging the station to do melee (of course).
-ships that weren't initially charging the station deciding to do so apropos of nothing. No module had yet died to block their view.
-ships told to stop charging the station get a flee command when attacked, which keeps cancelling my ability to micro them. Please add "ignore" to the override for this, it's horrendous that it prevents player control of a ship.
-the carrier charging ahead for unclear reasons. It's on 'defend' and the lead ship wasn't attacked, and the carrier wasn't attacking the station. It just moved ahead to park there.
Once again, I loaded the save a few times to watch this play out. You might not get all of these at once, and some runs even went relatively smoothly (though there was always at least one melee destroyer), but many of these things occur quite frequently. The carrier thing might not come up at all—I got it twice. The flicker-teleport is very random, but I do see it a lot when the fleet attacks a structure, as the rubbing they do to trigger it is very common.
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LameFox
- Posts: 3662
- Joined: Tue, 22. Oct 13, 15:26
Re: [6.20] Fleet failing to pursue slower target
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_4LI_v ... sp=sharing
Another fleet AI thing, this time more specific:
When loading into this save, the fleet have an order to go into the next system and attack something. However, they've been refusing to enter travel drive, and are flying quite slowly. The lead ship is moving at around 80 m/s. However, if you look at the supply ship, it's moving at 110 m/s, which is its top speed. This would suggest the fleet is waiting for it to catch up.
But isn't that the worst possible way of doing it?
Instead of gaining at 110 m/s and letting the whole fleet enter travel drive, the supply ship is gaining on them at ~30 m/s, drawing the whole situation out longer. If we assume it needs to cover 10km to be in formation then you're looking at... somewhere over 5 minutes of flight before it gets there? And the fleet going 80 m/s is only going to cover some 26ish km during that time. But if they stopped entirely to wait it would reach them in about 90 seconds, and then the whole formation can presumably move at its travel speed of 3195 m/s. My math is not the greatest but that seems like it would be significantly faster than what they are doing, no? Once they enter travel drive, the distance they lost by not moving would zip by in seconds.
So this seems like, if the ships aren't actively under attack, they should probably just stop and wait.
Another fleet AI thing, this time more specific:
When loading into this save, the fleet have an order to go into the next system and attack something. However, they've been refusing to enter travel drive, and are flying quite slowly. The lead ship is moving at around 80 m/s. However, if you look at the supply ship, it's moving at 110 m/s, which is its top speed. This would suggest the fleet is waiting for it to catch up.
But isn't that the worst possible way of doing it?
Instead of gaining at 110 m/s and letting the whole fleet enter travel drive, the supply ship is gaining on them at ~30 m/s, drawing the whole situation out longer. If we assume it needs to cover 10km to be in formation then you're looking at... somewhere over 5 minutes of flight before it gets there? And the fleet going 80 m/s is only going to cover some 26ish km during that time. But if they stopped entirely to wait it would reach them in about 90 seconds, and then the whole formation can presumably move at its travel speed of 3195 m/s. My math is not the greatest but that seems like it would be significantly faster than what they are doing, no? Once they enter travel drive, the distance they lost by not moving would zip by in seconds.
So this seems like, if the ships aren't actively under attack, they should probably just stop and wait.
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