[#1404][6.20 Public Beta 5] Sector Security unwarranted aggression

[Tilen]

The version of X4: Foundations that you are running: 6.20 Public Beta 5

A description of the problem and its symptoms, including any error messages received: AI faction (TER) sector security reports discovering illegal cargo on player ships that have no illegal cargo. They then become hostile and attack play ships with no warning.

The location in the game where the problem occurred, and the circumstances which led to it, where applicable: I am building an Energy Cell Factory in Venus sector. I have traders (Okinawas) with escort (Gladius) assigned to trade for the factory. Suddenly, without warning, I receive a message that the sector security has discovered illegal cargo and they start attacking the station and traders. I checked all the traders and escort ships for illegal cargo and wares. I couldn't find any. Do Police find illegal wares on the station manager??


Any additional information that could help trace the problem, including screenshots, crash dump files and savegames: save file https://we.tl/t-xrivuDnFFA

[Alan Phipps]

To clarify for the devs before saves are looked at, does the station hold any illegal (to TER) wares in storage, and have you checked for any illegal inventory items on the pilots/captains of your ships there. The ship inventory tab on Your Property is good place to start your check for the last bit.

[Scoob]

While any ship during its travels has a chance of picking up a locally-illegal ware - usually an inventory item, rather than regular cargo - the game does still sometimes issue false positives when it comes to their detection. Several times now, by luck, I've had a save from a few minutes earlier and I've NEVER been able to duplicate it.

[Tilen]

To clarify for the devs before saves are looked at, does the station hold any illegal (to TER) wares in storage, and have you checked for any illegal inventory items on the pilots/captains of your ships there. The ship inventory tab on Your Property is good place to start your check for the last bit.

The station is being built from scratch and does not have any illegal wares. I did not check the station manager's inventory, though.

I changed the station manager and pulled away traders until the station was fully built. That seemed to do the trick.

I strongly suspect that the manager's inventory might be the issue, because they were a Captain from the SCA fleet (Terraforming reward).

At any rate, I have also had multiple instances of my position defending fleet suddenly clash with an allied faction's position defending fleet. Maybe friendly fire is being simulated OOS?

[Tilen]

Update: after a whole day of SETA, TER again started attacking the Energy Cell fac out of the blue.

[Alan Phipps]

There are other scenarios: some faction friendly/neutral to you but an enemy of TER was docking at your station when TER engaged it, hit the station or local traffic by mistake and so made the station hostile - sucking in other forces of yours and theirs. It can also work the other way if your station or its assets attack an enemy but hit a TER asset instead. These scenarios can only initiate when the player is IS and in high attention for the attacking and attacked assets.

There is also the possibility of your assets attacking a pirate plundering while masked as TER whether IS or OOS (especially in outer TER sectors).

[Tilen]

There are other scenarios: some faction friendly/neutral to you but an enemy of TER was docking at your station when TER engaged it, hit the station or local traffic by mistake and so made the station hostile - sucking in other forces of yours and theirs. It can also work the other way if your station or its assets attack an enemy but hit a TER asset instead. These scenarios can only initiate when the player is IS and in high attention for the attacking and attacked assets.

There is also the possibility of your assets attacking a pirate plundering while masked as TER whether IS or OOS (especially in outer TER sectors).

I see. Well, the issue I describe here happens OOS, and I am confident that it is not the case of a pirate being involved. The Pirate thing is very annoying, though, as it lowers reputation; Perhaps I should install Police Scanners on all my ships. Do you know if this helps?

[j.harshaw]

Looking at the save linked to in OP. Terran patrol ships are attacking a player-owned station in Venus. However, it is too late to determine why they are attacking.

Would you happen to have a save from shortly before they attack? (This is important.)

Also, how do you know the attack is related to sector security? Did you receive a warning or notification of some sort?

[Tilen]

Looking at the save linked to in OP. Terran patrol ships are attacking a player-owned station in Venus. However, it is too late to determine why they are attacking.

Would you happen to have a save from shortly before they attack? (This is important.)

Also, how do you know the attack is related to sector security? Did you receive a warning or notification of some sort?

Hello. I will try to provide a save file moments before it happens, but since it is unprovoked, it might be a challenge (may take a minute).

Yes, there is a reputation loss warning sound, so I check the log (bottom left of HUD) which says Illegal cargo discovered in red letters. As this happens, the station is already under attack. Also, it is the Sector Police which initiate the aggression.

I will return hopefully shorty with a save file.

[j.harshaw]

Thanks. I've cleared this current attack and will leave your save running in the background with alerts to scream at me if it happens again.

[Tilen]

Here is a save file with variables as they are before the attack happens.

link: https://we.tl/t-gtHzkgmVAD

Unfotrunately I think it is best that you SETA and wait for the issue to occur. So far it has eventually happened every time I play since I started to build this stations. Mind you, this is the second Energy Cell factory in the same sector. The previous one was also destroyed but I noticed only in the morning after running SETA through the night.

I suspected that Sector Security might have an issue with criminal mass traffic, if that's even a thing and can happen OOS. But then if you make on of the player fleets (for example the Point Defence Fleet Alpha) and set it to defend a position at a jump gate that ARG also are defending, there is a chance ti spark hostilities between them also. Same as before, sudden warnings about reputation loss as the fleets engage.

If I find anything more I will keep you posted.

Thank you for your work.

[j.harshaw]

Thanks for the new save. Still nothing after an hour and a half, I'll keep it running until I need the game for something else.

[Tilen]

If there's some kind of debug log or whatever that I can enable, I'll happily idle the game for you. It's happened to me without fail every time. It's just that there's no telling when it'll happen.

[j.harshaw]

I let it run well into the evening yesterday, but the issue didn't happen unfortunately. I'll try to block out some of my own time to look into it again, but can't use work time for this anymore unless there's a more reliable way to reproduce it.

[Tilen]

Is there any way that I can help? Because it *does* happen, and I really want to help find the cause.

I don't suppose recording it happen will help much, will it?

[j.harshaw]

Is there any way that I can help? Because it *does* happen, and I really want to help find the cause.

I don't suppose recording it happen will help much, will it?

Not really, unfortunately. It'll show that you see it happen, but I don't doubt that you're seeing what you're seeing. Trick is figuring out why it's happening and fixing that, and to do that, I have to see it happening and track down what data is relevant and track that as it's changing. Activating the debug log won't help since the cause is unknown, so it won't trigger an error.

Anyway, I'll see if I can spend some time on this during the weekend.

- Incident happens in Terran Inner Core, so unlikely to be due to a ship that's hostile to terrans but neutral to the player since only terran, pioneer, and player ships go there.
- Attackers are a local patrol that responds to distress calls, but the station is in their regular patrol route so it could either be due to a distress call flagging the station as the aggressor or routine detection when the station was already hostile.
- Target of the attack is the station, station not acquired while in the process of attacking something else.

[Tilen]

Is there any way that I can help? Because it *does* happen, and I really want to help find the cause.

I don't suppose recording it happen will help much, will it?

Not really, unfortunately. It'll show that you see it happen, but I don't doubt that you're seeing what you're seeing. Trick is figuring out why it's happening and fixing that, and to do that, I have to see it happening and track down what data is relevant and track that as it's changing. Activating the debug log won't help since the cause is unknown, so it won't trigger an error.

Anyway, I'll see if I can spend some time on this during the weekend.

- Incident happens in Terran Inner Core, so unlikely to be due to a ship that's hostile to terrans but neutral to the player since only terran, pioneer, and player ships go there.
- Attackers are a local patrol that responds to distress calls, but the station is in their regular patrol route so it could either be due to a distress call flagging the station as the aggressor or routine detection when the station was already hostile.
- Target of the attack is the station, station not acquired while in the process of attacking something else.

Roger that. I'll see if I can get any clues from my end.

But don't forget that sudden aggression can happen also between two patrolling fleets. I've had it happen multiple times when my fleet was defending a position at the jump gate from Morning Star III to Heretic's End. Just sudden all out war between my fleet and an ARG fleet defending the same position. And I reloaded the save, thinking it was a one-off but it kept happening seemingly at random.

Might take a lot of SETA to catch this one. I will do my best to get you a relevantn save, but I think the best I'll be able to do is moments after the aggression started, not before.

Thank you again.

[j.harshaw]

think the best I'll be able to do is moments after the aggression started, not before.

Understood. Issues like this can be very tricky to track down. Thanks for the help.

[Tilen]

Here is a save file taken moments after a trader of mine was deemed enemy and by ARG. It is being destroyed in Argon Prime.

Logbook entry:
ED Incarcatua Sentinel (QEK-364) was destroyed.
Location: Argon Prime.
Commander: EF Drone & Missile Components (DRK-487)
Destroyed by: ARG Behemoth Vanguard (IYG-487)

This trader's captain did not carry any inventory items, and it did not carry any illegal wares. I believe this to be relevant to our inquiry.

https://we.tl/t-Qou14Vc8Tq

[Tilen]

And here is an autosave right before this occurs, so you may be able to compare the states: https://we.tl/t-QOsXs067aT

I'm glad to be able to help.