Capital ship collisions with Jolt - Improved in HF4.

[adeine]

While it seems Jolt has largely fixed the issue of clipping inside structures, the same cannot be said about making collisions between larger ships as you'd expect.

When ramming into another large vessel at moderate speed, reliably what ends up happening is you get 'wedged' against it, with your position flickering rapidly between two states and no control or steering. Eventually the game seems to give up and teleports you ~7 km away at zero speed.

Steps to reproduce:
Pilot a Shuyaku or similar large transport vessel and fly it straight at another capital ship.

[adeine]

Here is a video illustrating the issue with M ships (less glitchy than L ships) just to show how reliably it happens.

[Schinaider56]

Hi, i'm experiencing something weird, as i hint on the title, some L and M ship are colliding each other when docking, however this happening also with drones, when some battle occurs defense drones tend to leave and enter and sometimes this causes this collision and the ship enter in a state of adrift, see the screenshots.

3 L ship in "adrift mode"
https://imgur.com/a/z3cA0AB
2 L Ships
https://imgur.com/6fi6iWk
1 L and 1 M Ships
https://imgur.com/d1TjNlv

I don't have an screenshot of drones doin that but this happend with me while flying a cerberus, and i was playing without mods on 6.0.

Should't the game trigger some no clip at these situation to fix it?

[Alan Phipps]

@ devs also see this thread, this one and this one as further example reports. [#1129]

[Pixx]

L/XL ships constantly fusing together. In my case it's particularly bad, as when I'm with a fleet I can't fly 50 meters without one of the escorts fusing into me, but this particular save (as per developer's request) shows an attack on a xeno station in Atyia's Misfortune where some Osakas and a Syn are fused together after giving them an attack order.

Save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1n6bp4ksap26 ... ml.gz?dl=0

Picture of the issue:
https://imgur.com/KLfjPHC

[chaoseclipse]

Just like the title says, I'm experiencing issues with L and XL on a somewhat occasional occurrence and it's getting REALLY annoying, especially when it happens to my ships. Once they get like in the way in the provided picture, I can't get them to separate ever again just shy of destroying one of them and it's extremely annoying.

By the way, this is 6.00 Release, no mods, and the save is unmodified, I just happened across this and it isn't the first time...Egosoft really needs to work on the AI Collision Avoidance and ship colliders a bit more.

Spoiler

Show

[adeine]

Managed to capture an example of the reverse perspective: Here is an L transport disabled by one of its drones that's stuck inside its geometry (look at the one icon in the bottom that is exhibiting the same flickering as the player ship in the previous post). Just the same, in this state neither steering nor throttle work, all that is left is tumbling through space until either the game randomly teleports the offending object some distance away or the player teleports out of sector.

[chaoseclipse]

Reason: Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked

Sorry about that, fixed it.
Edit: Forgot about the file size, fixed yet again.

https://i.ibb.co/wcndCzt/L-Class-Misshap-S.jpg

[hardergamer]

I have the same problem, but have just tried to live with it, and I see 2 X4 YouTuber has been making videos about the problem over the last 4-5 days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KakTk6M8ATo&t=489s

[Alpha087]

I've been encountering this same issue, but primarily with S ships such as Xenon or defense drone swarms when attacking stations getting stuck after colliding with my Asgard. Worst part is once an S ship or drone gets "stuck" on my Asgard, it completely inhibits my ability to maneuver the Asgard anymore.

[adeine]

Here are two more relevant examples:

Example 1:

• This is a very glancing collision, showing that you don't have to be visually intersecting or evidently stuck in geometry for this effect to happen
• Notice how the frame rate absolutely tanks in the moment before collision. This also tends to happen near station modules, and will persist until you're clear of the object. Interestingly it doesn't seem to happen every time. See also how the frame rate remains low throughout the "collision" and instantly returns to normal once you're spat back out and clear from the immediate vicinity at the end. This is what people have been reporting with proximity affecting frame rates, presumably due to collision code issues.

Example 2:

• An external view of an L-L collision, again with frame rate in the low double digits while this happens. Also note the bouncy icons of other ships (e.g. the Barbarossa at the very bottom of the screen).
• This clip also shows the random teleporting that happens while things are colliding - in this case, when the Heron has almost shaken itself to the edge of the model, it teleports back to the opposite end. Sometimes this will teleport the ship a fair distance away (several hundred metres to a few kilometres), ending the collision.

[sirprosik]

Here is a K having trouble getting around a wrecked K near a gate. It is just shy of Asgard beam range to be destroyed.

Screenshot in the zip as well. It is a mess but keeping the wrecks around is nice for the station I am building here

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kmtni28cow827 ... K.zip?dl=0

[Alpha087]

Seems like your own repair drones can sometimes get stuck on XL (and possibly L) ships as well, causing severe framerate loss and complete lack of ship maneuvering.

[BitByte]

There seems to be some "challenges" also with M- & S-size ships.
Example 1: Followed BUC Quasar using Dragon Raider.
Quasar stopped and I bumped to it's left backside. My ship went halfly inside and started turn upwards (couldn't control the ship). After some seconds BUC ship was "teleported" 1km from my place with speed 0m/s. Then it started to move normally and I was able to continue follow / tease.

Example 2: 2 laser towers deploy from Dragon Raider during fight.
I was having fight with multiple Xenon S-size fighters. I decided deploy 2 laser towers to help my fight so paused the game, deployed 2 of them and then continued. End result was that Dragon Raider became uncontrolled (no steering, no speed control). Again ship nose started raise up. After some seconds ship returned back to operational but it was already too late as I got beating from enemy.

[staeuber]

another example of 2 ships having an intimate affair

https://youtu.be/fgtmekpnwl0?t=14

[adeine]

First impressions of the new update which according to patch log has some changes to collisions:

• Added fallback handling to separate ships that are stuck inside each other.
• Fixed player-controlled capital ships being affected by collisions with asteroids.
• Fixed repair drones colliding with ship they're repairing.
• Fixed collisions between capital ships and region wrecks.
• Fixed remaining cases of deployables colliding with launching ship.

On the deployables front, ships can still get stuck on cargo drones at the very least, unsure about others. It could be a fluke but it seems to feel a little different, whereas previously you'd go into a spin with no steering or throttle in all cases I experienced since the update I kept flying straight with no steering or throttle instead (moving the mouse now gives that little screen tilt as though you're about to turn/accelerate but you're still stuck).

During one of the occasions I experienced some new unintended behaviour (at least I hadn't seen this before the new patch): I was stuck on deployables (likely cargo drones though I was attempting to board at the time) and teleported out of sector to fix the issue. However, perhaps because boarding pods and defence drones were still active things seemed to start going seriously wrong even OOS. The boarding target started to wildly teleport around, similar to what happens when collisions go wrong in sector (main part of OOS video). Then, after the target died one of the boarding pods remained glitched into its geometry. Looking at the sector map from OOS it started going absolutely ballistic, still stuck to the wreck (very short second part of the OOS video).

OOS part of the issue

Thinking I'd better try and destroy the boarding pod while it's still within reach to prevent it from possibly breaking the game I teleported back in sector and sure enough, the boarding pod was fused into the wreck. Instead of what it was doing OOS, it was now tumbling gently into the eternal void. Any interaction with the wreck made it teleport around after brief glitchy flickers instead of even trying to collide in any way.

In sector aftermath of the situation with even buggier collision

[CBJ]

If you have a problem situation to report, we need a savegame. We can't diagnose problems from an image or a video, and many of the issues reported are a lot harder to reproduce than people seem to think. Yes, I know that a savegame can sometimes be hard to arrange as some problems don't survive the save/load cycle, but even a save that sometimes ends up resulting in the problem situation a little while later is better than none at all.

[nemo1887]

"Added fallback handling to separate ships that are stuck inside each other."

this patch works the vessels separate!
congratulations!

[adeine]

If you have a problem situation to report, we need a savegame. We can't diagnose problems from an image or a video, and many of the issues reported are a lot harder to reproduce than people seem to think. Yes, I know that a savegame can sometimes be hard to arrange as some problems don't survive the save/load cycle, but even a save that sometimes ends up resulting in the problem situation a little while later is better than none at all.

While it's not as helpful as a direct save, I'd say it is possible to glean at least some insight from an image or video, especially if you're looking at the code and might realise what is causing the shown behaviour. As you said, save games are not always easy to arrange (in some cases impossible because issues don't persist) or practical to go for, especially if you're playing the MTS beta and are limited to one save slot that you really don't want to accidentally break. You also have to account for loading in delay and fade-in, so even if something happens in-game and you immediately make a save, it might not clearly show what's going on or what led to the situation upon reloading. So while a lot of the issues are trivial to reproduce in play or frequent enough that even cursory testing will show them (they really are), providing a save can be tricky.

If it helps (I hope so, my internet is not the best and uploading takes forever), here is a starter pack of jolt collision saves: click
Completely fresh budgeted game start with just a few assets to ram into things.

General collision problems

• Exhibit 1: You start behind another ship in travel drive, if you steer into it (you're already kind of aimed correctly) most angles of impact will lead to broken behaviour.
• Exhibit 2: Do nothing or boost and you should end up clipped into and flickering in and out of geometry.
• Exhibit 3: You should load in wedged in place.
• Exhibit 4: If you do nothing here, you should get a frontal 'stuck to target' collision.
• Exhibit 5: Load in without doing anything and you should get wedged against the target in various interesting ways.
• Exhibit 6: Good example of being properly stuck, should load you in already in said situation.
• Exhibit 7: Collision between M ships. Doing nothing here should exhibit the jittery flicker with possible teleporting around.
• Exhibit 8: If you hold the strafe up key here, you will glitch out against the target. Experiment with different angles for various outcomes.
• Exhibit 10: Should load you in to a straight collision that is particularly wild.
• Exhibit 12: Properly jammed into a Magnetar, will be tricky to shake free.

Deployables

• Exhibit 9: You will load in to cargo drones that do not seem to have any collision at all. If you steer down/up you will see them float through your ship.
• Exhibit 11: This was a difficult one to set up a save for, but should load you in reliably stuck on a cargo drone. You're disabled, sliding forwards at high speed with the drone stuck inside your ship.

Ghost ship teleporting issue
Behaviour as seen with the wreck with the boarding pod stuck in it in my previous post, or what this person reported. This may be one of the instances where it's impossible to provide a save because if you save while you have an object with this behaviour a reload will fix the issue.

• Exhibit 13: Probably the closest you're going to get to a reproducible save. You load in with an extra glitchy collision where you're stuck at high speed. If you use your main batteries to destroy the target while you're stuck against it, there is a fair chance that you're similarly stuck to the wreck. If you get shunted/teleported out during the glitchiness, the wreck should in most cases now exhibit the ghost ship behaviour where as soon as you get close, it will teleport away. It's not a foolproof way of replicating it, but I managed to make it happen a number of times following these steps.

[adeine]

During one of the occasions I experienced some new unintended behaviour (at least I hadn't seen this before the new patch): I was stuck on deployables (likely cargo drones though I was attempting to board at the time) and teleported out of sector to fix the issue. However, perhaps because boarding pods and defence drones were still active things seemed to start going seriously wrong even OOS. The boarding target started to wildly teleport around, similar to what happens when collisions go wrong in sector (main part of OOS video).

This OOS weirdness seems to happen semi frequently now. I think what's happening is that if a ship is having collision issues while you're in sector, teleporting out of sector may provoke this bug. This is an example with a Buffalo that was trying to dock, no deployables or anything involved as far as I could tell. Once the ship is bugged out in this manner, weirdness will generally persist if you teleport back in sector: click

It is impossible to provide a save file for this specifically as saving and reloading resolves the issue.