Getting frustrated!

[rjlange]

WARNING! This is a bit of a rant. If you're a die-hard Egosoft fan please DO NOT RESPOND with a sermon! I don't want that kind of response. PLEASE - a reply from someone in the know.

I'm running Beta 3.0 HF9 right now and just want to know - when does Egosoft expect MOST bugs will be ironed out? Hotfix 8 (or possibly earlier version) seemed to fix a lot of issues with station management as well as ship/miner buy/sell/mine etc. Now in HF9 it is completely broken. My traders AND miners all sit around searching for trades again, even my 4 star autotraders. Miners will mine but won't sell their goods. I try manually ordering them to sell but you can no longer click on a station and trade without FIRST telling them to dock there. They used to be smart enough to insert a docking order when told to trade goods.

I can zoom out on the map with ICE in the search bar and find a station buying ice. By the time I tell the miner to DOCK, the BUY offer is gone. Then I have to delete the dock and do another search. Sometimes there is a buy offer but the trade dialog is all greyed out. I can clear the dialog and try again and then it will work, sometimes not. I've tried reassigning default actions, assigning directly to stations as traders or build storage trader and they still are searching for trades. I can no longer buy ships because my money is drying up. I have three stations, all with manufacturing, one of them is a mega-factory. None of them are making money. As I've said I've tried everything, so I got frustrated and quit.

I've got to shelve this because I'm getting angry with my poor investment. I'm not getting the enjoyment I thought I paid for. PLEASE - no preaching replies. I understand some of you are willing to wait for YEARS for this game to complete, and YES, I do understand this is how Egosoft operates, I dont want to hear that again either.

I don't see how all these bugs can be fixed by public release 3.0 when the beta only two weeks before still represents a broken game. Yes some aspects are working. Flying and fighting is great, as long as you only want to command and pilot ONE ship. Fleet ops don't work. When my fleet of three Odysseus were getting damaged by Xenon I ordered my fleet to move to a friendly sector. The two I was not piloting stayed and died. I found too late that they both had ATTACK orders and I had to delete them before they began to follow, then BOOM - GONE. And because the economy is broken I can't replace them.

Why can't I supply my build storage from my own manufacturing, in the same complex? Why don't station managers do this anyway? I tried using a Mercury to supply build storage from the manufacturing of the same complex but it appears he has to UNDOCK first? I've searched and searched and can find no dialog to permit this internal transfer. Am I missing something somewhere?

Egosoft - how long? Just a guesstimate? Will all bugs be fixed BEFORE releasing paid add-ons? Is this going to be a multi-year development process? Should I shelve it for another year? At this point I don't honestly know what to expect because all the news from Ego seems to be positive when my experience is not so much.

[CBJ]

As far as I can see you've not actually reported any of the problems you're having or provided savegames with which we can reproduce them. The chances of us fixing the specific problems you are running into will be much better if you do.

[rjlange]

So Ego is NOT aware of these issues? Really? Don't they playtest after modifications? Wouldn't that have revealed the text issue with the map?

All I ask is when do they expect to fix MOST bugs. Are you saying they won't get fixed unless someone tells them about it?

Is that the only answer I get? As a paying customer?

[CBJ]

Without a more detailed description, and preferably a savegame to demonstrate the issues, it's impossible to even know whether the specific problems you've mentioned have been reported. This is particularly true of the "text issue with the map" which you didn't even mention in your post above.

We are a small team. We test what we can, but the whole point of us having a public Beta is for a large number of people to try the game and tell us about the many things that a small number of people testing inevitably won't find. The more detailed information we get from those who are beta testing, the better the chances we have of fixing any problems you're having. I'm not sure what other answer you think we can give.

[Matthew94]

So Ego is NOT aware of these issues? Really? Don't they playtest after modifications? Wouldn't that have revealed the text issue with the map?

All I ask is when do they expect to fix MOST bugs. Are you saying they won't get fixed unless someone tells them about it?

Is that the only answer I get? As a paying customer?

They offered to look at your save file and all you did is complain more.
Consider following their advice and providing your save.

[rjlange]

I get it. Essentially buzz off unless I'm willing to spend my time as well as my money helping to fix the issues. When I purchased this software I didn't realize the obligation. Thanks for the politically correct non-answer.

@matthew94 - I was not addressing you.

[CBJ]

That wasn't what I said. You asked a question which was essentially "how long will it take to fix the problems I'm running into?". The only possible answer to that is that it depends on what those problems are and how much information you can give us to help us find and fix them. I should also point out that you chose to participate in the Public Beta, the entire purpose of which is to provide such feedback.

[Buzz2005]

you're not going to get any dates and if you want help we need details and/or saves

[Falcrack]

That wasn't what I said. You asked a question which was essentially "how long will it take to fix the problems I'm running into?". The only possible answer to that is that it depends on what those problems are and how much information you can give us to help us find and fix them. I should also point out that you chose to participate in the Public Beta, the entire purpose of which is to provide such feedback.

He just wanted to vent and isn't interested in providing constructive, helpful feedback.

[Rei Ayanami]

I get it. Essentially buzz off unless I'm willing to spend my time as well as my money helping to fix the issues. When I purchased this software I didn't realize the obligation.

Unless the customer can provide a situation where the complained-about situation can be reproduced, be it via savegame or detailed description, it is almost impossible to fix your problem. What do you want, do you want Egosoft to guess what every ship in station is doing in your game? That's not very efficient. That's why the Egosoft staff usually asks for a savegame where your problem occurs so they have a game state they can look at what could've gone wrong.

By complaining about a problem, but not providing a savegame nor a detailed problem description it is essentially equivalent to this:
Customer : "Help! My car is not working!"
Car manufacturer : "Ok, sorry to hear about that. What seems to be the problem?"
Customer : "Why should i tell you? You should know what is wrong with your product! Fix it now!"

Egosoft - how long? Just a guesstimate?

If you'd provide a safegame chances are your problem will be fixed earlier than NOT providing a savegame.

[rjlange]

Sorry. When I purchased this software I was expecting a completed product. I did not know of Egosofts developement practices NOR was I informed of them at purchase. This software was not designated a "Beta". I signed on to the Beta hoping to get a working product. I was wrong.

For those of you providing feedback to the devs, thanks! However I did not sign on to spend my personal time to work on their final product, that is not what I thought I paid for. Once again, I was wrong. For those of that ARE, keep it up because it appears that is the only way it will get there.

It is amazing how a post from someone who doesn't subscribe to the views of your fan base and dev team can ruffle so many feathers. The Egosoft fans and support community are evidently very sensitive about it. I guess you get a lot of these post?

[dirtybeatfreak]

I signed on to the Beta hoping to get a working product. I was wrong.

Read this bit back to yourself. A few times, until it sinks in

[rjlange]

You really don't get it. Do you?

I bought this game in December 2018 expecting a working product. It was not.

I signed on to the beta to HOPEFULLY get a better working product. After 14 months even the beta is not working.

So, I have NO working product. Fourteen months after purchase.

Why does this viewpoint ruffle SO many feathers?

[Tanvaras]

As you mentioned in your latest reply, You signed onto the beta and didnt think you were testing anything... Might need to re-read the beta rules and info once again. Link provided : viewtopic.php?f=192&t=405396

Not only did Egosoft offer to help by asking for a save game, which takes a whole few minutes to upload to a file hosting site to share to Egosoft, but you constantly refused to take any assistance provided from any reply and claim they all got "Ruffled feathers", sounds as though your feathers are ruffled and the members and Egosoft CBJ were out to help you.

Tip:
1. Don't sign up for a beta in "any" game and expect it to be a final product.
2. X series games are an ever on-going development, always have been since all end up with DLC, which entails continuous development. This pretty much keep games as such in a Beta test client (for those that like to be part of the bug hunting team) and a live client (For those that do not like playing beta's).
3. Don't post about a bug, and then wont explain in detail and/or upload your save with the issue, complain you don't like beta testing, and then say your playing the beta to have a live finished product......

[Falcrack]

Why does this viewpoint ruffle SO many feathers?

Sounds like you are projecting.

[CBJ]

That's enough now. The point about the Beta has been made; there's no need to make this personal.

[rjlange]

"Tip:
1. Don't sign up for a beta in "any" game and expect it to be a final product."

I bought the game expecting a final product, the beta was a last attempt to recoup a poor investment.

"2. X series games are an ever on-going development, always have been since all end up with DLC, which entails continuous development. This pretty much keep games as such in a Beta test client (for those that like to be part of the bug hunting team) and a live client (For those that do not like playing beta's)."

I was not informed of this at purchase, as stated above. There are NO games I own that are still in "Beta" after 14 months from initial purchase. Yes, there are betas, but the initial software WORKS! Neither my initial purchase OR the beta work, after 14 months. Hence my question, when will most of the bugs be fixed? Only answer is if I report the bugs.

"3. Don't post about a bug, and then wont explain in detail and/or upload your save with the issue, complain you don't like beta testing, and then say your playing the beta to have a live finished product......"

But I did, again above. But they require a report PER issue, with a full submission for each. AGAIN - not what I paid for and am not willing to do. Had they said AT purchase this was required I would not have purchased. AGAIN it all boils down to this perception of pay full amount for something not labeled "BETA", and NOT getting a working product.

"Sounds like you are projecting."
What?

[rjlange]

That's enough now. The point about the Beta has been made; there's no need to make this personal.

How about locking this before I get personal with your fans. You have some really hard-headed people behind you. Congrats on the army.

[Gavrushka]

I think, as with all my leisure activities, I engage in it as long as I enjoy it. - For me, it's a pretty mercenary act to beta the game. I want it to *my* version of perfect, and betaing for a small team like Egosoft gives me that chance. If I didn't enjoy it, I'd simply shrug my shoulders and spend my free time on a pursuit I did enjoy. I'd hope you haven't 'suffered' through 16 months of play since you bought the game, but if you did, you're a more patient person than I could ever hope to be. I *hope* you find a game that doesn't fill you with rage and wrath (I've come across a few of those in my time!) and maybe one day in the future you can check back to see if the game has grown more to your liking.

Happy gaming!

[rjlange]

I think, as with all my leisure activities, I engage in it as long as I enjoy it. - For me, it's a pretty mercenary act to beta the game. I want it to *my* version of perfect, and betaing for a small team like Egosoft gives me that chance. If I didn't enjoy it, I'd simply shrug my shoulders and spend my free time on a pursuit I did enjoy. I'd hope you haven't 'suffered' through 16 months of play since you bought the game, but if you did, you're a more patient person than I could ever hope to be. I *hope* you find a game that doesn't fill you with rage and wrath (I've come across a few of those in my time!) and maybe one day in the future you can check back to see if the game has grown more to your liking.

Happy gaming!

Thanks for the civil and non-condescending reply.

No, I'm not filled with rage, just unhappy with my purchase. I was simply wanting to know when I would get a working product on my purchase. I have to admit I don't understand this attitude of paying for a product and then investing personal time on top of that to make it work. Also I haven't been banging my head against the wall for 14 months.

After initial purchase I tried for 20 hours and then requested a refund from steam. They refused, after three request. How you could ever realize the issues with this game in 2 hours is beyond me considering the complexity of the interface. I then ask Egosoft directly for a refund and they just ask me "Whats wrong?". Had either they OR Steam refunded my money that would be the end of it and others would not be getting their feathers ruffled over my simple question.

So I tried again over the last month and still a lot of issues. SO I tried the beta hoping for a little more functionality.

Look at it from my point of view. I never realized I was paying for this type of product, unfinished and not working. A product where I was expected to contribute bug finding and trouble reporting. I reasonably tried to get a refund and was refused because of the 2 hour limit set by Steam. Fourteen months later I'm still out $50 and still have NO working product. And when I ask when it MIGHT be working, even just a guesstimate, I get blasted by not only the fan base who evidently expected to pay $50 and also expect to work on it and help develop it. Even the forum moderator got defensive!

So lets recap what this whole thread has led me to believe.

This game will not be finished until those who paid full price help finish it. There are no refunds. There are no guaranties or warranties. You can't ask questions about when you might receive a return on your investment, unless you're willing to provide additional blood, sweat and tears. AND asking when it might be finished is TABOO and will bring you a thousand curses. AND it is all my fault for buying without first knowing this was how Ego operated.


So to finish my diatribe - I honestly believe when all the bugs are gone this will be a great game! Flying combat in a pulsar is awesome. But other issues are complicating and even obstructing these fun parts. When will it all come together?