Player shipyards [suggestion] to stop mass profitsssss

[ShoC]

Hiya,

Is it still the case if I build a shipyard in argon territory and get orders for paranoid ships they will pump out and fight?

Been a while since I played.

I was thinking if that's the case surely it would be a good idea if the player has not restricted production on a shipyard for specific races considered hostile to the sector that houses the shipyard, there would be a reputation for each time a ship is produced and maybe a fine.

This leaves only all race production shipyards possible in player owned sectors. I'd then go as far as in those sectors any ship produced and destroyed within X minutes after production the played gets fined for failing to protect newly created ship before departure from said sector.

Thoughts? To harsh? Or is this already in and I wasted 5 minutes of my life

[GCU Grey Area]

Good idea. Quite like it - makes a lot of sense. However I doubt it would have all that much impact on preventing players from becoming ludicrously wealthy far too quickly.

In my current game my shipyards were initially only producing Antigone & Argon ships. Until I could restrict which factions were permitted to build ships those were the only factions I bought ship blueprints from. Problem was they still needed a hell of a lot of ships. Still ended up with well over 50 billion after just a few weeks - peak profits were on the order of 3-400 million per hour only building ships for those 2 factions, even with prices set to minimum (50%).

Think a better way to limit profitability of shipyards might be to let the player set a lower limit on the price of ships built for NPC factions:
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=422270
Still think rep consequences for building enemy ships is a great idea however, but for it's own sake, rather than as a means of stopping mass profitsssss.

[Mahi Ma]

Well if you had a money printing machine like shipyards your currency would lose worth quickly. Introductionary lecture economics 1st semester. But Egosoft doesn't believe in the relevance of economics in their game and won't hire an expert Only having one currency makes me just facepalm every time thinking about it ... not blaming them for their lack of understanding of economics or making fun of it: but this is why there are experts...

[CBJ]

But Egosoft doesn't believe in the relevance of economics in their game and won't hire an expert

How about not making misleading statements? What I actually said was this.

No, we don't. Aside from the fact that their company is many times bigger than ours, their game is an online game where the economy is driven by the players, not by NPC factions. It's a very different situation that isn't relevant to X series games.

Nowhere did I say that economics wasn't relevant. My point was that hiring an economist would be hugely disproportionate for a single-player game, even if we were big enough to afford it.

[Mahi Ma]

But Egosoft doesn't believe in the relevance of economics in their game and won't hire an expert

How about not making misleading statements? What I actually said was this.

No, we don't. Aside from the fact that their company is many times bigger than ours, their game is an online game where the economy is driven by the players, not by NPC factions. It's a very different situation that isn't relevant to X series games.

Nowhere did I say that economics wasn't relevant. My point was that hiring an economist would be hugely disproportionate for a single-player game, even if we were big enough to afford it.

Yes I understand that. I probably secretly wish for a really deep economic simulation or at least one that's plausible. I'm not all that much down for pew pew peng peng (as long as I have to pull the trigger myself).

[ShoC]

I'd say maybe we're diverging for the origin suggestion that was made.

[Jeremy]

Is it still the case if I build a shipyard in argon territory and get orders for paranoid ships they will pump out and fight?

It's not clear to me if you're talking about the stable release or the beta. I haven't played the beta, but in 2.60 this is still the case yes.

I was thinking if that's the case surely it would be a good idea if the player has not restricted production on a shipyard for specific races considered hostile to the sector that houses the shipyard, there would be a reputation for each time a ship is produced and maybe a fine.

In 2.60, this is not possible. You can restrict ship sales to all factions (i.e. only produce for yourself) or to none. You can't restrict ship sales to specific factions. Blacklists only apply to subordinates, not the station itself.

This leaves only all race production shipyards possible in player owned sectors. I'd then go as far as in those sectors any ship produced and destroyed within X minutes after production the played gets fined for failing to protect newly created ship before departure from said sector.

This would only work if:
- We can restrict ship sales to specific factions
- We can actually 'police' the sectors we own. This is currently (in 2.60) not possible at all, there is no difference in the game between "protecting an ally" and "starting a war". I.o.w. if HOP and TEL are both my allies, then no matter how badly HOP ships misbehave and attack TEL ships, when I attack them they will consider it an act of aggression and I will lose standing with them. The fact that they started the fight doesn't factor in anywhere.

In the end though, I don't think you can expect a producer of goods to supply a warranty for damages caused by aggressive behaviour of the buyer. That would be like making the garden center responsible for the fact that a person used a shovel they bought there to hit someone over the head.

The responsibility of the ship builder ends when the ship leaves the dock as far as I'm concerned. HOP doesn't have to pay either when I buy a ship at their yard and start attacking other factions with it.

[ShoC]

On the back of that you'd not expect a company in a country to churn out tanks for another country at war with the the company that has the tanks being procuded..

I get the financial part and your example, my first point tho is 100% valid.

[Shuulo]

- We can restrict ship sales to specific factions
- We can actually 'police' the sectors we own. This is currently (in 2.60) not possible at all, there is no difference in the game between "protecting an ally" and "starting a war". I.o.w. if HOP and TEL are both my allies, then no matter how badly HOP ships misbehave and attack TEL ships, when I attack them they will consider it an act of aggression and I will lose standing with them. The fact that they started the fight doesn't factor in anywhere.

Both of this features are in 3.0 that will come out this month, i do not think there is a reason to discuss 2.6 limitations as most players (from my experience) already play beta.

[ShoC]

I think something is being missed on the message here!
I'm not referring the ability to restrict who buys good from my stations..

I'm suggesting a penalty for those who choose to construct ships for paranids for instance when their shipyard is in argon sectors etc...

[MHDriver]

Personally I don't see the point of the post. It is a single player game so it only matters to the player how wealthy they get and they have control over that. If you don't want to be wealthy then build your shipyard in Xenon territory.

[Imperial Good]

Is it still the case if I build a shipyard in argon territory and get orders for paranoid ships they will pump out and fight?

Yes however starting with version 3.00 you can restrict sales to specific NPC factions. If you choose you could prevent PAR or HOP buying from your shipyard in ARG space.

I'd then go as far as in those sectors any ship produced and destroyed within X minutes after production the played gets fined for failing to protect newly created ship before departure from said sector.

Nothing works like that in real life. If you trash your brand new car moments after leaving the car shop that is your problem, not the problem of the car shop that sold it to you.

The AI should be smart enough and implicitly block orders from such Shipyards due to the ships dying pre-maturely. I even suggested a mechanic that the AI could order ships to a specific sector keeping them under the player's tag until they arrive and hence preventing them from being damaged, with a bonus delivery fee (as the player takes some risks doing this).

[vadiolive]

My suggestion for all production chain

Population have tiers

Shipyard itself use T5 population to make ships
and XL use 1000 , L use 750
XL combat ship use 1500
XL trade ship use 1250

T5 population have alot more demands to keep happy and produce things
thaat Tier 4

You can speed up cycle process with overflow people however be lack marging profit
and if you near broken can fire up slowdown cycle process time , not efficiency

Efficiency in other hands based in Luxury Resource or in XR aka Secondary also include tech or extras prod mod upgrades that make initial upfront more expensive , ideas go beyond and infinite they are not need to produce thing but if so efficiency increase
Ok i dont take credits for this idea since come from other web game recent play : https://prosperousuniverse.com/
However take a look

[Falcrack]

If you sell ships to a faction, I feel that the following should happen:
1. You get a medium rep boost to the faction that buys ships from your shipyard
2. You get a large rep penalty to any faction at war with the faction you are selling to

If you want to be in the arms business, you need to pick your sides in essence.

[NightmareNight91]

I really like this idea, i strongly believe this game needs a reputation system overhall. Its far too easy to get good rep and harder to lose rep. Producing ships for a hostile faction should anger said factions enemies.

[ShoC]

From a gameplay point of view I see the benefits as such;

If I want to wage a tactical takeover of a sector:

1) build a shipyard in a sector:
2) permit a faction to buy ships that's is hostile to current sector I'm in
3) start building them
4) reputation hit starts
4a) now I need to be careful and manage it.
4b) protect assets if reputation drops to low
5) sector is now absorbed by chosen faction or myself

Currently I can do this without impunity as no reputation hit.

[Jeremy]

If you sell ships to a faction, I feel that the following should happen:
1. You get a medium rep boost to the faction that buys ships from your shipyard
2. You get a large rep penalty to any faction at war with the faction you are selling to

If you want to be in the arms business, you need to pick your sides in essence.

That's a nice sentiment, unfortunately the ONLY business in the entire game is the arms business. Every produced ware serves 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, to make ships (or in the case of food, to make more ships). I'm all for playing the game in a peaceful manner but you can't penalize traders for trading the only tradeable goods in the game without providing a peaceful alternative. That would eliminate an entire play style from the game, and reducing choices is hardly ever a good idea.

Edit: inb4 someone says "but what about drugs?" Yes there is that, but I wouldn't call that the 'ethical trader' alternative to arms dealing

[Matthew94]

I know the shipyards do give you tons of profit, arguably too much, but I really don't want to go back to the X2/X3 days where it takes a lifetime just to get your first destroyer/M2.

On topic, when the faction system is improved I agree that there should be some kind of penalty or change if you're blatantly helping the war effort of one faction over another. For 10-20 hours in one of my game (Beta 6), my shipyard was producing nothing but PAR ships yet I was always +30 with HOP.

[tomchk]

These are great ideas. I support changes along these lines 100%!