Questions regarding megacomplex

[Knight05]

I'm trying my first attempt at a 100% self sufficient shipyard complex and I have multiple questions.

How do I figure out how many of each module I need as well as how many storage containers? To make continuous production without the need of outside resources?

My goal is to produce all ships and equipment ideally. I'm struggling to figure our how many of each shipyard type i will want to crank out fleets of each/all types.

How do I know how many workers I will need?

How do i know how many docks of each type i will require when its finished?

And lastly and most importantly how do you get all these dozens of modules to setup and snap to one another? Most of them wont connect to other modules leaving my flustered and confused how I am suppose to get lole 50+modules to all connect

[Genoscythe]

I'm trying my first attempt at a 100% self sufficient shipyard complex and I have multiple questions.

How do I figure out how many of each module I need as well as how many storage containers? To make continuous production without the need of outside resources?

My goal is to produce all ships and equipment ideally. I'm struggling to figure our how many of each shipyard type i will want to crank out fleets of each/all types.

How do I know how many workers I will need?

How do i know how many docks of each type i will require when its finished?

And lastly and most importantly how do you get all these dozens of modules to setup and snap to one another? Most of them wont connect to other modules leaving my flustered and confused how I am suppose to get lole 50+modules to all connect

I have recently started a megacomplex and as an advice I'd tell you to build a modular grid-structure with space to one side for pier modules and simply make cross section - base02/vertical02 grids in every direction. It's high enough to host most vertically connecting modules and you can always go with a 03 vertical or horizontal connection piece, don't forget you have 20km space in each direction. As for the resource needs, with a more open and modular approach to building it won't be hard to add extra modules later, but you can always check out the logical overview to check production needs and costs to make sure you're not bottlenecked by certain production chains. Decide in the beginning which side will have the pier and docking modules, 4L storage containers for each type is a good start. And make sure you stick to one race in terms of food/metal production or make sure to have it in mind early which foodstuffs etc. you will need.

[Alan Phipps]

Also see this thread and this one for ideas.

[pref]

X4 station calculator will answer most of your questions.

And lastly and most importantly how do you get all these dozens of modules to setup and snap to one another? Most of them wont connect to other modules leaving my flustered and confused how I am suppose to get lole 50+modules to all connect

You don't have to connect the modules for your station to work.

Otherwise you can use all the different connectors to connect your modules, you are not supposed to connect prod/storage modules directly in most of the cases.
50 doesn't sound too much, imo the UI works fine with that station count.

Also i'd forget the box layout, the designer allows for much better looking plexes then a cube or such.

[Knight05]

X4 station calculator will answer most of your questions.

And lastly and most importantly how do you get all these dozens of modules to setup and snap to one another? Most of them wont connect to other modules leaving my flustered and confused how I am suppose to get lole 50+modules to all connect

You don't have to connect the modules for your station to work.

Otherwise you can use all the different connectors to connect your modules, you are not supposed to connect prod/storage modules directly in most of the cases.
50 doesn't sound too much, imo the UI works fine with that station count.

Also i'd forget the box layout, the designer allows for much better looking plexes then a cube or such.

Wait I am confused so as long as objects are within the plot area they do not need to be snapped to anything? Like as a pure example I could have say 10 microchip modules just floating within my plot not connected or near the rest of my station and they will all work?

[Buzz2005]

X4 station calculator will answer most of your questions.

And lastly and most importantly how do you get all these dozens of modules to setup and snap to one another? Most of them wont connect to other modules leaving my flustered and confused how I am suppose to get lole 50+modules to all connect

You don't have to connect the modules for your station to work.

Otherwise you can use all the different connectors to connect your modules, you are not supposed to connect prod/storage modules directly in most of the cases.
50 doesn't sound too much, imo the UI works fine with that station count.

Also i'd forget the box layout, the designer allows for much better looking plexes then a cube or such.

Wait I am confused so as long as objects are within the plot area they do not need to be snapped to anything? Like as a pure example I could have say 10 microchip modules just floating within my plot not connected or near the rest of my station and they will all work?

yes

[darkstar12]

If the link works

https://tinyurl.com/t9kwzaw

it's the start of one I use it works well with 4xS/M and can easily be adapted to increase everything really.

[Knight05]

If the link works

https://tinyurl.com/t9kwzaw

it's the start of one I use it works well with 4xS/M and can easily be adapted to increase everything really.

I appreciate this I'm currently trying to find a build order or plan to build one super mega complex that has 2 XL, 10L and 4 S/M shipyards and somehow figure out how I can make it my headquarters so that I have the ability to crank out massive fleets to defend and conquer other sectors. When I use the station planner though and plug in the shipyards it doesnt really tell me any info on what sub categories I would need to sustain all that like microchips, electronics yadda yadda.

I'm struggling to figure out how much of everything I would need to support a project that large and also how I turn it into my HQ.

This is what I came up with so far but I'm not sure if it's to much or to little for non stop production.

Advanced Electronics x5
Weapon Components x10
Turret Components x10
Shied Components x10
Field Coild x6
Missile Components x1
Drone Components x2
Claytronics x15
Smart Chip x40
Antimater Converters x6
Scanning Arrays x3
Quantum Tubes x20
Plasma Conductors x15
Microchips x35
Hull Parts x10
Engine Parts x12
Advanced Composites x4
Superfluids x10
Graphene x16
Antimatter Cells x4
Silicon Wafers x23
Refined Metals x10
Energy Cells x16
Food Rations x12
Argon Medical Supply x24
Wheat x4
Meat x4
Spices x4
Water x4
Argon L Habitats x64


It would also include (16) 3E piers for large and XL docking as well as about 30 Regular docking stations. I know this would take ages to build but I'm more concerned with an all in one mega fleet station slash HQ than I am credits or time.

And if it doubled as a resource hub for future base plots that's a win also.

Also from what I read individual ship maintenance bays are essentially worthless in game currently as most ships have repair drones and also normal shipyards can repair/restock them that you build unless I'm missing something

[pref]

Why do you need all those 16 whafs?

The limiting factor will be available resources, not the number of wharfs.
In order to produce ships quickly you have to produce enough materials for ships, and you won't fit in a single plot if you want to build a complex which can sustain 16 wharfs that build ships continuously.

Also i doubt you would ever need such a huge output, Probably you don't loose 10 L ships every 10 minutes of gameplay.

If you want to see resources required, then just check a shipyard - every ship and equipment they sell will show the resource requirements. You will need the same at your own SY.

[darkstar12]

you need more hull parts and advanced electronics I use 10 just for 4 S/M of advanced and 20 hull parts

[Knight05]

Why do you need all those 16 whafs?

The limiting factor will be available resources, not the number of wharfs.
In order to produce ships quickly you have to produce enough materials for ships, and you won't fit in a single plot if you want to build a complex which can sustain 16 wharfs that build ships continuously.

Also i doubt you would ever need such a huge output, Probably you don't loose 10 L ships every 10 minutes of gameplay.

If you want to see resources required, then just check a shipyard - every ship and equipment they sell will show the resource requirements. You will need the same at your own SY.

Yes but they often run out of materials 24/7 so it cant technically really be self sufficient if the output isnt matching the ship spam

[Knight05]

Why do you need all those 16 whafs?

The limiting factor will be available resources, not the number of wharfs.
In order to produce ships quickly you have to produce enough materials for ships, and you won't fit in a single plot if you want to build a complex which can sustain 16 wharfs that build ships continuously.

Also i doubt you would ever need such a huge output, Probably you don't loose 10 L ships every 10 minutes of gameplay.

If you want to see resources required, then just check a shipyard - every ship and equipment they sell will show the resource requirements. You will need the same at your own SY.

I just wanted the ability to spit out ships as fast as possible since this station will require dozens of miners to keep up with resource cost. I was following a template of an older poster who said this complex worked wonders for his mega complex.

The only part of this game that still greatly confuses me is the numbers of everything needed for constant operation.

Like 20 of this 15 of that.

The guy who posted above said that the NPC shipyards show all modules listed/needs for self sufficiency of that 1 ahipyard.

So for example argon shipyard I could just copy their template. But I have to wonder is this really self sufficient because if it then how would it always be out of materials after making only like 2 ships.

I just wish there was a guide somewhere that broke it down since that calculator website doesnt and said if you want 1 of each shipyard type then you need 30 microchips and 20 advanced electronics etc etc

Because from my viewpoint which may certainly be 100% wrong the only sure fire way to min/max a station is to start with a low amount of modules and add more after watching to see the logistics of what you are deficient in. I dont want to produce a ton of extra crap I will have to sell if I dont use it. I just want the minimum number of modules to constantly spit out ships of each type full armed with max presets to build giant fleets to fight pirates and take over sectors etc.

[darkstar12]

if you take mine it can produce 10-20 S/M forever or near enough. I also add 2 L's and 1 XL on my personal version of that station since you will not really need that many L's and XL's before you are kinda saturated

You can also add to the station afterwards. just looking at the encylopedia tells you what parts you need the most of.

[pref]

The guy who posted above said that the NPC shipyards show all modules listed/needs for self sufficiency of that 1 ahipyard.

So for example argon shipyard I could just copy their template. But I have to wonder is this really self sufficient because if it then how would it always be out of materials after making only like 2 ships.

I just wish there was a guide somewhere that broke it down since that calculator website doesnt and said if you want 1 of each shipyard type then you need 30 microchips and 20 advanced electronics etc etc

There is no fixed resource requirement for ship building.
Each ship, their variants and each different equipment needs wares in a different ratio. That means there is no way to exactly match the shipyard needs with production. You can only finetune it exactly if you plan to produce the same ships in the same ratio with same equipment.
Also resource requirements for small and large ships significantly differ.

Here is a thread where i calculated some resources for a couple ships. This is 2.0 or even older data, so if it has changed since then please someone correct me.

This is a complex i built, it can build an ody every 1.5 hours for comparison (plus loads of claytronics), there are links for build plan and complex calculator. You can remove all the surplus you don't need and increase production for shipbuilding resources.
Even if you remove claytronics and it's support modules, you will probably end up well above 100 production modules. And it's pretty small compared to what you plan. Though i'd keep some claytronics as that sells really well and could help finishing the build a bit quicker.

Regarding size, there is no way on earth you will need continuous ship production with several ships per minute. Imo you would be much better off to shoot for a couple L/XL ships per hour or even less and have a really large storage so during the time when you do other stuff and aren't wasting any ships it can fill up. Then when you need a new fleet you can easily build it from wares already in store.
Resource requirement for 16 wharfs is too much. Even in my slower complex i'd need 20-30 L miners to match resource consumption.

[Imperial Good]

How do I figure out how many of each module I need as well as how many storage containers? To make continuous production without the need of outside resources?

In theory one can calculate it all. Until one realizes that even a single L shipyard can potentially require hundreds of modules to run at full in a worst case situation.

I usually go with trial and error for the final module production based on NPC needs. All intermediates (and energy cells) are calculated using an excel spreadsheet I made from game data. I can keep adding modules and see the nets for all materials until only mineables are needed for the station to function. The spreadsheet also factors in workers to some extent so I can simulate adding workers and balancing consumption with them.

To give an idea of how large such stations must be. 30 Weapon Component factories are nowhere near enough to satisfy NPC ship demand.

There is no advantage or disadvantage for having excess ware storage. In theory only 1-2 solid and liquid L storages are needed since storing large volumes of mineables is kind of pointless when one can rather store ready to use ship parts for immediate use. I would say at the very minimum 1 L container module per ship build module so that there is at least some buffer of parts to potentially keep each build module in use for a while.

My goal is to produce all ships and equipment ideally. I'm struggling to figure our how many of each shipyard type i will want to crank out fleets of each/all types.

1 of each at 100% capacity is really all you will ever need. The NPCs cannot operate theirs anywhere near 100% capacity. This can produce you ships faster than the NPCs and due to the player having no programmed limits they can build a doom fleet over a few hours the NPCs cannot stop and in low attention combat will suffer minimal losses due to numbers involved.

I personally recommend 2 XL, 2 S/M and 3-5 Ls. Especially if building for NPCs this allows you to cope with large order spikes for more money. Of course it is impractical to operate these at 100% capacity as not only would the station take years of game time to build but the save will become unplayable after a few hours due to the thousands of ships the player would be making every hour.

How do I know how many workers I will need?

In my case my spreadsheet helped solve this problem. Complex calculators will usually also show such information.

I recommend using workers from all races. This is because worker growth rate is limited to at best 1 worker per race per minute so all 3 races gives optimal growth.

How do i know how many docks of each type i will require when its finished?

Depends entirely on how you feed the station with mineables. If it is with M miner ships then you will need 8 or 16 6S3M docks. If it is with L miner ships then you will need 3 to 6 of 3xL/XL clamps. In theory the M miners can use the S/M fabs to dock and unload, but this can potentially bottleneck production as pads reserved for docking cannot be used to build a ship on, hence the recommendation for separate dedicated S/M docks. Due to the size of the station, S/M ships might spend a lot of time transiting during dock/undock, and hence why a lot of pads are required as a docking ship can hold a reservation for one for a considerable amount of time before actually landing.

And lastly and most importantly how do you get all these dozens of modules to setup and snap to one another? Most of them wont connect to other modules leaving my flustered and confused how I am suppose to get lole 50+modules to all connect

This is largely down to player preference as X4 sadly lacks any reasonable Design Rule Check in the station builder to make practical/sensible stations. One can just cheese it and have all the production modules floating in space. Better yet, place them all at the same point of space as nothing is more efficient than a black hole of production.

If you want something that looks reasonably sensible/well polished rather than showing off the lack of limits of X4 then I suggest manually implementing the following DRC rules.

• All station modules must be connected together. There must be only a single root node. This prevents one from making free floating modules and forces one to use interconnection modules.
• The internal space of a module must not share internal space with that of any other module. This prevents one stacking modules infinitely inside each other. One could potentially allow some leeway here for more compacted or different looking designs.
• All modules must be placed within the plot boundaries. X4 technically has a DRC check for this built in when moving or placing modules that will prevent out of bounds modules from being built, but it does not check any child modules of the module being moved or placed allowing stations to be up to as good as 60km in every axis as long as the out of bounds modules are never moved or added to. This is likely a bug, one reported a lot but not fixed for some reason.
• All modules must be placed within the constraints given by the in-game station editor. This is to prevent one using technically cheated station designs built by manually editing the station design save file. Such stations can use otherwise impossible to obtain module rotations in their layout since rotations are mechanically not restricted to a single axis like they are in the station builder in game.

With such a DRC I find the easiest way to lay out stations is to start with the L dock clamps (and L/XL ship fabs) and then add S/M docks (and ship fabs). Then a plane is made with the Y axis, and from this plane rows of modules such as storage, habitation or production are placed that run along the XZ axis based on station orientation. These rows contain only the same module type, allowing them to be easily extended as needed and packed reasonably efficiently. The plane that incorporates the Y axis is a grid of interconnects from which the rows extend. The grid is made of 6 way connectors with a single small horizontal or vertical connector between. Most rows naturally occupy the space provided by many row attachment points and hence those 6 way connectors can be skipped and longer connectors used instead to save on build cost and time. Logically each 6 way connector can only have 1 parent it is attached to and hence one does not need to place connectors between 6 way connectors that are already attached. The reason I like such layout is that it looks reasonable (except solar panels) and is trivial to extend. Once a row reaches plot bounds (or slightly before if you want a border) then one can keep adding more modules of the same type by simply starting a new row somewhere else on the plane grid.

[Knight05]

Imperial do you happen to have any screenshots of your layout and/or a station calculator link? I think I followed the end of your post but it's slightly difficult without seeing what you mean

Also what does DRC mean?

[Imperial Good]

The layout has very much been evolving as I play. Below is a screenshot showing my latest attempt at a small factory. The principles can be applied to larger factories. Shipyards and warfs would need an area to house those build modules which require large volumes of free space, and could be built at the plot edge or where I placed storage/habitation. The storage and habitation band could be converted into module rows extending from the grid plane as shown by the production modules.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1933924205

It is not the most pretty but it is very simple and highly expandable. Each module type can be given its own rows, and these rows can potentially be over 15km long. If row length is reached, another row of the same module type can be started on the grid. With a maximum plot size the grid plane can have an area of up to 20km^2 which allows for a ludicrous number of rows.

Below is a link to a complex calculator that many people seem to use. Use it to plan your station and balance input and output.
http://www.x4-game.com/#/station-calculator

Also what does DRC mean?

Design rules check.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_rule_checking

The actual term applies for integrated circuit design in the electronic industry when using computer tools to design such things. If one thinks of stations kind of like circuits the term does seem applicable, although there is likely some other more appropriate term for this that I am not aware of. In any case the idea is that it prevents one from constructing highly efficient but utterly nonsense stations.

[Knight05]

My biggest frustration currently is the non ability to free look within a plot. I hope they change it as some point because right now the camera controls for doing plots ate not that great IMO especially when trying to build in the bottom most part of the grid if not using connectors of some type