Why are Planets irrelevant?

[phrozen1]

I really can't understand why planets and moons etc play no part in this game other than being a backdrop.

As it is right now it feels pretty strange to have the space totally disconnected from the planets if i keep thinking about it.
And i don't mean landing on planets or fancy stuff like that.

Just some kind of trade-hub for planets would be great and would open up many possibilities especially for the economy (rescource-sink, rare wares from the planet).

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Planets have never been a significant component of the X-series games - the games have always been focused around space (some subtle references to planet side linkages but nothing more than that).

[Tomonor]

A multitude of reasons, but the simplest answer is that it's out scope for Egosoft right now (and probably ever will be).

If they were to introduce planets as resource/residential/commercial/industrial/military sources/interactive sectors, they would be required to:
-rework the vision and balance of the entire game series.
-the universe has to support different types of planets/planetoids, their moons, and stars.
-the map has to support planets as well.
-a massive amount of work has to be done to create lore for the planets, create lore-friendly biomes for the planets.
-an even more massive amount of work has to be done for the planets to become habitable, to make the ships behave differently in atmosphere, to create assets for the planets, make them functional and interactive.
-then add some special features to planets, for instance a Battlezone-like combat/building system.
-then they would have to balance the entire universe with planets in mind, because by the current standing of the X universe, everything is done in space, from making a living to creating new technologies and assets.
-and ultimately, they would need to come up with a very good reason for why half the universe's population randomly decided to set up factories (and generally a living) in space.

See, as easy as Star Citizen or Elite can pull this off (with planets originally intended and far fewer space stations and space station/economical functions), as hard it would be for Egosoft with such a small team and with such a small budget. Right now the easiest way to simulate a planet could be done via a mod by inserting a Trading Station-esque station "near" planets that would represent them as an economical window (generating raw resources and maybe workforce by unique scripts).

[Derp]

Planets are irrelevant because they're a one-way trip. Earth escape velocity is nearly 12 km/s, and even the fastest scouts top out around 10.

[Techedge]

A multitude of reasons, but the simplest answer is that it's out scope for Egosoft right now (and probably ever will be).

If they were to introduce planets as resource/residential/commercial/industrial/military sources/interactive sectors, they would be required to:
-rework the vision and balance of the entire game series.
-the universe has to support different types of planets/planetoids, their moons, and stars.
-the map has to support planets as well.
-a massive amount of work has to be done to create lore for the planets, create lore-friendly biomes for the planets.
-an even more massive amount of work has to be done for the planets to become habitable, to make the ships behave differently in atmosphere, to create assets for the planets, make them functional and interactive.
-then add some special features to planets, for instance a Battlezone-like combat/building system.
-then they would have to balance the entire universe with planets in mind, because by the current standing of the X universe, everything is done in space, from making a living to creating new technologies and assets.
-and ultimately, they would need to come up with a very good reason for why half the universe's population randomly decided to set up factories (and generally a living) in space.

See, as easy as Star Citizen or Elite can pull this off (with planets originally intended and far fewer space stations and space station/economical functions), as hard it would be for Egosoft with such a small team and with such a small budget. Right now the easiest way to simulate a planet could be done via a mod by inserting a Trading Station-esque station "near" planets that would represent them as an economical window (generating raw resources and maybe workforce by unique scripts).

I may be wrong but I think the OP is referring to a more simple use of planets, without the need to land, so no need of new assets or different physics.
However, being them just hubs I imagine two situations:
- resource sinks (I think someone else has already proposed this): they could keep the economy going even without wars, and I can see some value in it. Can't say if it would be really useful, at the end fo the day. However should be simple to mod this in;
- resource providers: if they would provide resources already available in the normal universe I don't really see the point (and would saturate the market even more); if they would provide different/rare/unique resources, then a massive revamp and rebalance should be made to the universe and to its (already problematic) economy. I don't expect devs to ever do it, maybe some modder can. I don't have neither hope nor will to see it...

[Tomonor]

A multitude of reasons, but the simplest answer is that it's out scope for Egosoft right now (and probably ever will be).

If they were to introduce planets as resource/residential/commercial/industrial/military sources/interactive sectors, they would be required to:
-rework the vision and balance of the entire game series.
-the universe has to support different types of planets/planetoids, their moons, and stars.
-the map has to support planets as well.
-a massive amount of work has to be done to create lore for the planets, create lore-friendly biomes for the planets.
-an even more massive amount of work has to be done for the planets to become habitable, to make the ships behave differently in atmosphere, to create assets for the planets, make them functional and interactive.
-then add some special features to planets, for instance a Battlezone-like combat/building system.
-then they would have to balance the entire universe with planets in mind, because by the current standing of the X universe, everything is done in space, from making a living to creating new technologies and assets.
-and ultimately, they would need to come up with a very good reason for why half the universe's population randomly decided to set up factories (and generally a living) in space.

See, as easy as Star Citizen or Elite can pull this off (with planets originally intended and far fewer space stations and space station/economical functions), as hard it would be for Egosoft with such a small team and with such a small budget. Right now the easiest way to simulate a planet could be done via a mod by inserting a Trading Station-esque station "near" planets that would represent them as an economical window (generating raw resources and maybe workforce by unique scripts).

I may be wrong but I think the OP is referring to a more simple use of planets, without the need to land, so no need of new assets or different physics.
However, being them just hubs I imagine two situations:
- resource sinks (I think someone else has already proposed this): they could keep the economy going even without wars, and I can see some value in it. Can't say if it would be really useful, at the end fo the day. However should be simple to mod this in;
- resource providers: if they would provide resources already available in the normal universe I don't really see the point (and would saturate the market even more); if they would provide different/rare/unique resources, then a massive revamp and rebalance should be made to the universe and to its (already problematic) economy. I don't expect devs to ever do it, maybe some modder can. I don't have neither hope nor will to see it...

In my opinion if planets would be used as glorified space stations only (without any fancy features like in today's space sims), players would feel deceived. If planets were to be implemented in this series, they had to be implemented just right.

[Shehriazad]

I wouldn't mind trade posts for consumable goods and drugs/illegal wares that are constantly drained by the planets they're close to.


So basically you get huge markups for drugs at trade stations in heavily guarded sectors but sectors in God knows where have a high need for more basic products.

This would constantly drain resources that currently top out far too easily and wouldn't even require much of Egosoft.


We are literally talking about a station with maybe one new script that constantly removes wares and some of those station ships flying towards and coming from planets.


Not meaning to be disrespectful....but I feel like that this wouldn't even be a days' work...and would offer HUGE changes to economy and lore/feel of the game... Lore is also easily enhanced this way.

So tldr; Disagree with actual planet interaction as that is too much to ask for...but would love to see ware-draining trade hubs "connected" to planets that make drug and consumable peddling a lot better...

[Kadatherion]

I wouldn't mind trade posts for consumable goods and drugs/illegal wares that are constantly drained by the planets they're close to.


So basically you get huge markups for drugs at trade stations in heavily guarded sectors but sectors in God knows where have a high need for more basic products.

This would constantly drain resources that currently top out far too easily and wouldn't even require much of Egosoft.


We are literally talking about a station with maybe one new script that constantly removes wares and some of those station ships flying towards and coming from planets.


Not meaning to be disrespectful....but I feel like that this wouldn't even be a days' work...and would offer HUGE changes to economy and lore/feel of the game... Lore is also easily enhanced this way.

So tldr; Disagree with actual planet interaction as that is too much to ask for...but would love to see ware-draining trade hubs "connected" to planets that make drug and consumable peddling a lot better...

Long story short: yes, it's already been proposed. Several times. It also already was in previous games, in a sense (trade stations in X3 ----> pretty much what you mean). No, they won't make it in X4 because - unless they throw the towel in the end having to admit they can't balance the "dynamic" economy as they hoped to - they don't want resource sinks. Mods can do it pretty easily anyway, and they are likely to be a common feature in future economy overhaul mods.

[Shehriazad]

The sad part is that the lack of resource sinks just makes no sense.

Right now only working factory civilians eat food.


No one else seems to eat or consume stuff in any viable amount.



Even thou I'm pretty sure that a barren planet in a sector far away populated by a mining crew or scientists or whaaatever...is not going to be fully self sustained.

So from a logic standpoint a resource sink is the one thing that makes sense

[Imperial Good]

Due to the scale of the planets it would make the space combat aspect of the game almost irrelevant.

At best they could have them as extra resource sinks. Not like those are needed too much with how much of a resource sink ship construction is.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

I like the idea of smallish projects on moons or uninhabitable planets. Any company / faction with say a planetary base, would put up a trade station for food / water / gases etc.

Nobody is going to use terraformers to make it habitable, as we all know the problems with that!

Each orbital station could then have some very valuable commodity from the the surface base to sell.

[Socratatus]

I really can't understand why planets and moons etc play no part in this game other than being a backdrop.

As it is right now it feels pretty strange to have the space totally disconnected from the planets if i keep thinking about it.
And i don't mean landing on planets or fancy stuff like that.

Just some kind of trade-hub for planets would be great and would open up many possibilities especially for the economy (rescource-sink, rare wares from the planet).

Cos they can only do so much?

It would be nice to see enemy ships bombarding planets within a Station`s territory to simulate planet attacks and things like that, but then it always goes to the next question of "Why can`t I take part in planet attacks\defence?"

There`s only so much Devs can do right now.

But I`m sure it`s safe to assume that the planets are where most of the space-faring populations come from.

[Red-Spot]

I fear 'Freelancer style planets' if planets would just be dumped in. Not dumping planets in would require significant work. With that in mind I'd rather Ego focus on things that actually make the game complete, free(-ish) of bugs and features that do not (properly) work and expand on the game as is.
When that is done, planets might be nice for X5 ...

[Gregorovitch]

In my opinion if planets would be used as glorified space stations only (without any fancy features like in today's space sims), players would feel deceived. If planets were to be implemented in this series, they had to be implemented just right.

I agree with this. And it's difficult to get right in this type of game. Examples of failure are:

ED: as I understand it with Horizons when they brought in landing on planets it was like "Ooh! Aah!" for a couple of landings for players and then it was "OK, so what now?" then it was like "Been There, done that, got the T-shirt /yawn".

ME: same thing really. Driving the rover around collecting stuff on a planet was fun the first time. By the tenth, not so much. More like "Oh no, not again"

It's all about content and narrative. Making convincing planets to land on and explore would be colossally expensive to do and unless they were packed with interesting quests and situations that are consistently and meaningfully varied and fresh they would quickly become boring. Narrative in X games is proceduraly generated in the most part - the story is mainly about you, how you grow your business and assemble you fleets etc. Therefore it would be very difficult for planets to be anything other than glorified space stations serving exactly the same purpose as space stations do now.

Which basically means a colossally expensive feature that deliveres close to zero additional gameplay value. Something Chris Roberts might have thought about before he spent $200m of other people's money on his uber-detailed environments without considering that the three main things that make (most) people want to get out of bed in the morning and play your game are narrative, narrative and narrative.

[Nort The Fragrent]

The Planetary Ring round Earth in X3, was believable. To have a Planet Hub, would be no big deal, Just a different space station! It would make a Faction more realistic, and add a nice detached yet connected element to the game. There would be no need for more produce to enter the trade formula. Keep things as they are in that regard.
Planet or moon hubs can work with not much extra, other than a new looking station.
Yes it would be nice to land down there, but then what? There would have to be a lot of work to make it worthwhile. I doubt ES have that kind of budget.
I have just built a nice Silicon station, with all the trimmings. I think some would do well to take a slow pass by some of the stations. ES have put a lot of work into their design. Well worth a closer look..

[Perkel]

Imo planets should function as "cores" of trading.
Meaning that they should be sinks for various end products providing best amount of money for trouble.

So for example if you have station in System A which has planet with huge population on it then that station would get huge boost to prices received and you would see occasionally ships going in out to planet and production of ships would be way more cheaper and faster.

If you have station on other hand on desert planet or in asteroid belt then for example bonus toward mining would be great but production of ships etc wouldn't be that great.

This was all factions and you would strategically fight for certain systems not just for every single sector.
The big factions would also have reason to defend to death their core systems as those would be cores of their power not just systems they can replace.

[Nort The Fragrent]

I use the Planets to sling shot my way around,

I have installed the Split-thrusters I found deep in Heretics End ( Top Left corner ). Use the key that was in the lock box in Argon Prime, it opens the vault in that abandoned ship in Scale Plate Green VII . Tricky to get though, as the Red’s are a real pain. Thats where the advanced shield generators come into their own. They get awarded to you from the Faction head in Hewa’s Twin IV The Cove. Deliver 3 Phoenix S Destroyer’s to him for the shields.

The Split Thrusters are brilliant, You must get them and give them a blast.