Video showcasing the dysfunctional AI in action.

[Mysterious Mr. M]

https://youtu.be/N1Ub0Es7RXM

The current state of the AI makes use of capital ships pointless as they are incapable of properly attacking any target. Even OOS they perform poorly, requiring far more time to defeat a target than when taking manual control.
However, manual control of capital and even M size ships is undermined by turrets being horribly unreliable. Sometimes refusing to target the enemy right in front of them and other times they stop shooting without reason.
And if that was not enough the overall buggy state of the AI is problematic: refusing order, going braindead or even turning xenon pacifist.

These things really need to be sorted out ASAP. Any new features and expansions will be completely undermined by the currently dysfunctional AI.

[MurryChang]

Yeah I watched the AI of a couple of my Oddys fight a K in system the other day and it was basically the same as your video: The K was just puttering slowly around while the Oddys would take a couple shots at him, then spend 30+ seconds repositioning themselves for no reason at all, then take a couple shots at him, rinse and repeat. The K never tried to close in on my ships to fight them nor did it seriously try to escape.

It doesn't seem like the Ks try to attack when the battle is OOS either, I watch my destroyers fight Ks OOS and it doesn't look like their shields ever go down at all.

[GCU Grey Area]

They're doing much better in my game, but then I don't use SETA - that has always caused problems in combat for every X game I've ever played. In most of them turrets wouldn't even fire at all while it was running. Try playing the game at the speed it was intended to run at & you might get better results.

Anyway, my capitals have proved to be far from pointless (as of 2.0 at least, destroyers in particular were dreadful in earlier versions). They are doing a reasonably efficient job of destroying Xenon capitals & stations (essential for the latter given how durable stations are). Matrix 9 & 451 are clear & they're currently at work on the shipyard in Scale Plate Green.

[MurryChang]

I wasn't watching with SETA on when I was in system, I was standing on the bridge watching my captain be ineffective.

They're definitely useful for capturing Xenon sectors, I've taken over both Faulty Logics and half of Atlya's Misfortune, it's just that they definitely need better AI.

[Mysterious Mr. M]

They're doing much better in my game, but then I don't use SETA - that has always caused problems in combat for every X game I've ever played. In most of them turrets wouldn't even fire at all while it was running. Try playing the game at the speed it was intended to run at & you might get better results.

Anyway, my capitals have proved to be far from pointless (as of 2.0 at least, destroyers in particular were dreadful in earlier versions). They are doing a reasonably efficient job of destroying Xenon capitals & stations (essential for the latter given how durable stations are). Matrix 9 & 451 are clear & they're currently at work on the shipyard in Scale Plate Green.

I have had this happen every time regardless if SETA was on or off as well regardless of the version used, ranging from 1.60 to 2.20 beta on multiple characters.
You sure you are playing the same game and not mistaking X3 for X4? jk

[radcapricorn]

That Behemoth is obviously lethargic... What are the crew stats on the hairdryer?

[MurryChang]

Four star captain and all crew is the second rank(Able Crewman I think?) on both ships and they both behaved the same way.

And the K not attacking or trying to do anything about being fired on is obviously buggy too.

[GCU Grey Area]

I wasn't watching with SETA on when I was in system, I was standing on the bridge watching my captain be ineffective.

Comment about SETA was in response Mr M's video, not your post. Think I was still writing my post while you added yours.

They're definitely useful for capturing Xenon sectors, I've taken over both Faulty Logics and half of Atlya's Misfortune, it's just that they definitely need better AI.

Agree AI could do with some work in some areas (really do not like wing implementation for example). However in my experience as long as you stick to the basics (fly to, attack, etc) capitals are good enough to be considered useful ships, essential in some circumstances.

[MurryChang]

I wasn't watching with SETA on when I was in system, I was standing on the bridge watching my captain be ineffective.

Comment about SETA was in response Mr M's video, not your post. Think I was still writing my post while you added yours.

They're definitely useful for capturing Xenon sectors, I've taken over both Faulty Logics and half of Atlya's Misfortune, it's just that they definitely need better AI.

Agree AI could do with some work in some areas (really do not like wing implementation for example). However in my experience as long as you stick to the basics (fly to, attack, etc) capitals are good enough to be considered useful ships, essential in some circumstances.

Yeah I was just noting the fact I wasn't using SETA and saw the same behavior.

They're definitely useful oos and if you pilot them manually but the AI needs a lot of work. For another example, I can set a half dozen Oddys attacking a station from OOS and they do it but seem to be flying around a lot. I teleport on to one of them and they're just flying around the station, they don't orient themselves towards it and start firing until I'm actually IS. Then, again, they fire for a bit and reorient themselves for 30 seconds uselessly. It's basically the same behavior, there's something in the scripting that has them reorienting themselves far too often.

[GCU Grey Area]

They're definitely useful oos and if you pilot them manually but the AI needs a lot of work. For another example, I can set a half dozen Oddys attacking a station from OOS and they do it but seem to be flying around a lot. I teleport on to one of them and they're just flying around the station, they don't orient themselves towards it and start firing until I'm actually IS. Then, again, they fire for a bit and reorient themselves for 30 seconds uselessly. It's basically the same behavior, there's something in the scripting that has them reorienting themselves far too often.

Can't comment of effectiveness of capitals in OOS battles & don't spend much time in manual control of one. Don't enjoy merely watching an OOS battle when I could be there in person &, if I'm going to be involved in the battle, generally want to fly something faster & more manoeuverable than a capital ship. Usually a Peregrine in my current game, unless I'm sniping shipyard defence modules from extreme range prior to sending in the mob (got a specially modified Phoenix for that particular task).

[Chris0132]

I feel like they might perform better if they had more long range weaponry. Capship turrets are really short range unless they're plasma and plasma can't hit a moving target. So it means that they often struggle to get into range of large targets like stations or other capital craft.

[adeine]

It doesn't seem like the Ks try to attack when the battle is OOS either, I watch my destroyers fight Ks OOS and it doesn't look like their shields ever go down at all.

And the K not attacking or trying to do anything about being fired on is obviously buggy too.

Not quite what is happening - the problem is that capital ships (esp Xenon as they send them unprotected and suck at repairing) immediately lose all their turrets OOS as anything attacking them will have perfect accuracy against them. So it doesn't matter if you're in sector or out of sector as long as the Ks/Is arrived and were engaged while you were OOS. It's likely all of their turrets are dead and they're just a sitting duck. It's a different story if you're in sector and a fresh K/I arrives to the fray.

One way to abuse this is to have a group of fighters or laser turrets intercepting Xenon capital ships at the gates, which will completely disable them. Then all you need is a few fighters or other ships on standby to have enough DPS to actually kill the ship.

[mr.WHO]

I feel like they might perform better if they had more long range weaponry. Capship turrets are really short range unless they're plasma and plasma can't hit a moving target. So it means that they often struggle to get into range of large targets like stations or other capital craft.

Try missiles turrets or even better dumbfire turrets that have absurdly long range.

[phrozen1]

yeah, the combat- and overall-ai is in a sad state. It is obviously bugged.

It's ridiculous how a ship wobbles around when its flying to a target thats getting attacked.
The usage of the travel-drive is also illogical at best.
The shield-energy-for-afterburner-system is also illogical and totally flawed.
I think those issues are the most important thing right now.
Who needs new features when the core-systems just don't work?

And yes it got better in some points but overall it's just not acceptable. Not even for a beta.

[Warnoise]

ll i thought this was fixed in 2.0

It seems that I indeed have to wait for 4.0 to reinstall

[Tonsilgon]

The AI still has a loooong way to go.

Yesterday I tried the "deliver ship" part of the HQ-mission. I was sitting in a kallisto without weapons that I wanted to sacrifice.
But some Xenon M was occupying the spot where I should deliver the ship. So I ordered my fully euquipped Elite to the Spot to fight the Xenon.
I was very sceptical, but then I realized, that the M was buggy and without weapons (or maybe a missile launcher and out of missiles).

Of course the Xenon started a dogfight. But even with the Xenon periodically using all its shield with the thrusters, the AI-pilot in the Elite did not manager to make a single dent in the Xenons hull.
I had to reload.....

[Mysterious Mr. M]

The AI still has a loooong way to go.

Yesterday I tried the "deliver ship" part of the HQ-mission. I was sitting in a kallisto without weapons that I wanted to sacrifice.
But some Xenon M was occupying the spot where I should deliver the ship. So I ordered my fully euquipped Elite to the Spot to fight the Xenon.
I was very sceptical, but then I realized, that the M was buggy and without weapons (or maybe a missile launcher and out of missiles).

Of course the Xenon started a dogfight. But even with the Xenon periodically using all its shield with the thrusters, the AI-pilot in the Elite did not manager to make a single dent in the Xenons hull.
I had to reload.....

The Xenon only use a single weapon type, the xenon pulse laser.
However sometimes one of them just refuses to shoot their weapons even though they are equipped. It is one of the things i showed in the video.

[MurryChang]

Not quite what is happening - the problem is that capital ships (esp Xenon as they send them unprotected and suck at repairing) immediately lose all their turrets OOS as anything attacking them will have perfect accuracy against them. So it doesn't matter if you're in sector or out of sector as long as the Ks/Is arrived and were engaged while you were OOS. It's likely all of their turrets are dead and they're just a sitting duck. It's a different story if you're in sector and a fresh K/I arrives to the fray.

I was wondering about that, I sat around in Company Regard for like an hour on SETA with a few of my Oddys waiting for a K or I to show up while I was IS and it never did. Of course I leave to do a few other things and one finally shows up.

[Olfrygt]

Not quite what is happening - the problem is that capital ships (esp Xenon as they send them unprotected and suck at repairing) immediately lose all their turrets OOS as anything attacking them will have perfect accuracy against them. So it doesn't matter if you're in sector or out of sector as long as the Ks/Is arrived and were engaged while you were OOS. It's likely all of their turrets are dead and they're just a sitting duck. It's a different story if you're in sector and a fresh K/I arrives to the fray.

I was wondering about that, I sat around in Company Regard for like an hour on SETA with a few of my Oddys waiting for a K or I to show up while I was IS and it never did. Of course I leave to do a few other things and one finally shows up.

Just bad luck, i can confirm that Ks come out if they player is waiting for them. But the fights look....the AI is bad and even the weapons and ship classes (M6/7 is one class in X4 and both are faster then fighters...) are boring. So u can't expect that much.
X3AP with XRM mod....thats space combat simply awesome. But instead of improving it (probably cutting some of less used ships XRM had too much). They skrewed everthing, even the AI.

[MurryChang]

Not quite what is happening - the problem is that capital ships (esp Xenon as they send them unprotected and suck at repairing) immediately lose all their turrets OOS as anything attacking them will have perfect accuracy against them. So it doesn't matter if you're in sector or out of sector as long as the Ks/Is arrived and were engaged while you were OOS. It's likely all of their turrets are dead and they're just a sitting duck. It's a different story if you're in sector and a fresh K/I arrives to the fray.

I was wondering about that, I sat around in Company Regard for like an hour on SETA with a few of my Oddys waiting for a K or I to show up while I was IS and it never did. Of course I leave to do a few other things and one finally shows up.

Just bad luck, i can confirm that Ks come out if they player is waiting for them.

Oh yeah I know, it just seems like they come out far more infrequently now that I have destroyers and a defense platform right outside their gate.