improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

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Masfa
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Joined: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:59

improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Masfa »

Hi guys!
I'm a fan of X Universe since X3 Terran Conflict and i just love X4 Foundations. It's already so good and still a lot that can possibly evolve...

The thing is: I've been playing the game on a laptop with a 2GB GeForce 930 MX!...Reasonable frame rate with low graphics settings and 1280x720 full-screen resolution, but I have to constantly relaunch the game because of graphics artifacts and missing geometry.
Don't get it wrong... I've played Doom (from 2016, on the vulkan mode) and recente AAA games from late 2018, always with good performance.

Since some guys using 3GB GPU's also are having the same problem, my question is:
Is Egosoft planning on working at ram leaks, as well as textures usage for ram improvement?
In my case, if I start the game at 1280x720(windowed), to look at sytem performance, my GPU is at full throttle and RAM usage at 5GB!!!

Please guys/dev's: let me enjoy the game with future upgrades, will you?

Thanks so much :gruebel:
CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
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Re: improved performance soon?

Post by CBJ »

I'm sorry, but the simple fact is that your system does not meet the minimum requirements, and we have no plans to change those requirements. Suggestions that the issues caused by hardware not meeting the minimum requirements are actually caused memory leaks are misleading and inaccurate. Note that the few people who have reported similar problems with more graphics memory are very likely to be trying to run the game with graphics settings, especially anti-aliasing, that are too high for the hardware that they have.
Shehriazad
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Shehriazad »

It's a hard fact that at some point it is no longer worth it to calibrate your game further "down" from a business perspective(unless you are a F2P dev) once you've approached the finishing lines.

That said, what CPU is inside that laptop of yours?

Some people managed to run this game on an integrated HD530 with the newest available drivers because you get to have more available vram. Performance isn't gonna be stellar, but it might be playable if your laptop has an HD530 or "faster" integrated GPU that can feed off of your ram. HD530 was "released" 2015...so your laptop might have something similar?


That said, running WAY below minimum specs is just a thing YOU have to deal with. The thing is that you are not even anywhere NEAR minimum spec with that GPU. Not only in recommended minimum GPU power (970/780 non-mobile) nor in ram (2gb vs 4gb). If not even meeting HALF the required horsepower/resources, then it's really no longer on them..and that's not me wanting to defend them...but if they spent like 3-6 months just to get it to run on such low hardware instead of improving the game itself, they'll likely lose more money than they could've made otherwise.
Masfa
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:59

Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Masfa »

Thanks CBJ for the reply. I was just hoping to play confortably the game, since I really like it... Congrats on the work, though; very well done.

Thanks also to Shehriazad. I value the work Egosoft has been doing all these years, make no mistake.
I have a less than a year old laptop with an integrated Intel UHD Graphics 620+GeForce 930 MX, and a 8th generation quad core i5-8250U processor; also, all the drivers for intel, nVidia and even Bios are up to date; I must enphasize that I can play with no problems games like F1 2018, assetto corsa 1.16.2, project cars 2, farcry 5, just cause 4, ace combat 7, etc...

Best regards
Endeavour79
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Endeavour79 »

Did you check if your system is using the correct GPU when running X4? Could be an issue.

If the MX930 is underpowered, well you could get an external GPU. I'm using a Gamix Box 1080 with my work laptop and it runs at 40-60 FPS at high settings. Well, as long as you don't open the map view. Then FPS drop 50-70percent
CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by CBJ »

Masfa wrote: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 23:27 I must enphasize that I can play with no problems games like F1 2018, assetto corsa 1.16.2, project cars 2, farcry 5, just cause 4, ace combat 7, etc...
Once again, I'm sorry, but that is neither here nor there. This game's minimum and recommended requirements are set for very good reasons. X4 uses the Vulkan API, it simulates the entire game universe in the background whether you are there or not, and it has no artificial limitations on how many different types of objects can be in your immediate vicinity at the same time. All of these factors, and others, affect minimum requirements in ways which do not apply to those games.
Masfa
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Joined: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:59

Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Masfa »

Thanks CBJ
Keep up the good good work. Congrats to entire Egosoft team for a great game...
Cg089
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Cg089 »

Hi Masfa,
I too am in the "Not enough specs" boat (though I'm hoping to get an external GPU sometime in the near future). I have a Quadro M1000M 2gb, which is kinda like a 930MX (twice as powerful rendering, but same amount of VRAM, and that's what's killing you.
Here are my tips on getting it to run better, though you still will have to restart the game every few hours potentially. And obviously, not affiliated with Egosoft, and I cannot take responsibility for results.
While I'll try to provide advice if you have problems, please exercise common sense. I cannot take responsibility for any issues you run into, and if you do not understand what these steps are doing, you probably shouldn't do them. That being said, this is personally what worked for me, and I hope someone finds it helpful.

These are roughly in order from easiest to hardest. First, the easy stuff.
  • The easiest thing you can do which I found helped make things a lot less frustrating: right-click the game on the left side of Steam. Click Properties. Click "SET LAUNCH OPTIONS" in the menu that pops up. Enter -skipintro into the box and hit "OK". No more loud intro every time you launch!
  • If you haven't set your graphics settings to Custom in X4, do so. Crank the LOD setting (Level of Detail) to 0. Yes, 0. I also cranked Effect Distance down to 3. This will cause stuff to not load in until you're a lot closer, but oh well. For reference, the Low Setting defaults each of these to 15. This step might be the most important of all of them.
  • [Optional] When you want to play X4, go to Settings -> Display. Change your resolution to your target resolution (i.e. 1280x720 or whatever). You'll get a bunch of warnings which personally I just ignore. In my case, the native resolution is 1920x1080; what works well for you probably depends on the native resolution of your display and your exact hardware (since this has to do some scaling). This will require some trial and error; I personally found that 1280x768 makes the text look a bit better than 1280x720 did for some reason, but also you should try 1280x720 (that's exactly 2/3s of 1920x1080). Now, open X4. Go into the Graphics Settings and change Display Mode to Borderless Window. Ta-da! X4 is now full screen. Sure, the text may be a bit fuzzy (as I mentioned, worth trying several resolutions to see what looks best on your monitor), but at least it isn't tiny any more. When you're done playing X4, go back into Graphics Settings and change your resolution back to the highest it supports.
The harder stuff - only applicable to dual-GPU systems (e.g. many laptops with Intel CPU/integrated graphics + Nvidia GPU).

This set of bullet points go together; don't start it until you've read through all of it, understand what it means, and accept responsibility for anything that goes wrong. You could end up worse off if you don't do both steps
.
The early steps involve trying to make sure applications default to using the integrated graphics, and the later steps deal with making sure that your games instead use the higher-performance GPU. If you don't do both, you'll end up with worse/unplayable performance in X4 and/or other apps. If you do the first part and can't get the second part, make sure you undo the first part. Again, make sure you know what you're doing.
I will refer to the integrated graphics as GPU0 and the discrete, high performance graphics as GPU1 (e.g. the 930MX in your case). This is how they show up on my machine, and hopefully how they show up on yours too. If they're reversed, then you'll need to switch GPU1 and GPU0 in these steps.
  • Make sure X4 is running on your GPU1 (again, hopefully the 930MX in this case). Easiest way to do this is to open Task Manager. Go to the Performance Tab. Make sure that the 930MX (or, for other readers, whatever more powerful card exists in your laptop) corresponds to GPU1. Rightclick the row starting with name, then check GPU engine. Make sure that X4 has GPU1 in the GPU engine column that just appeared.
  • Make sure absolutely nothing else is running on your 930MX, you need every bit of VRAM you can get. There's some way to set the default GPU for apps to use, but I can't find it in my settings anymore. There are probably guides online for this step for your particular flavor of graphics card. The Graphics part of Windows 10's settings app will let you tell specific apps to use specific GPUs, if everything is set up right. If everything is defaulting to running on the 930MX, tell any apps you want to have open when playing X4 to use the "power saving" (which is the Intel Integrated Graphics, unless something has gone horribly wrong) GPU instead using the Graphics setting as mentioned above.
  • In my case, I think I needed to do this for Steam (so that X4 but not steam used my better graphics card. On the Graphics Setting page, Classic App should be selected. Click Browse, then rightclick the folder path bar at the top. Enter C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam and hit enter. Now rightclick on Steam.exe, and click add. Repeat for C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\cef\cef.win7x64, now selecting steamwebhelper.exe (it does all of the webpages in Steam)
  • I think X4 defaulted to using GPU1 from the beginning, and if it wasn't, you probably couldn't even start a new game without crashing. However, if for some reason it isn't using GPU1 at this point in the procedure, you should be able to instead just repeat the above step for C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\X4 Foundations selecting X4.exe, but instead setting it to use the High Performance GPU.
  • At this point, going into Task Manager with X4 open should show just X4 using GPU1, and everything else using GPU0. I will note that this process may make other apps run a bit less smoothly, but personally I haven't noticed it. You'll also have better battery life if they were using GPU1 before. This is most likely to matter for other games. So you may want to set up other games to use GPU1 if necessary as well, as described for X4 in the previous step.
  • Similarly, when X4 is not open, and all other apps you want to have open in the background are open, the load on GPU1 in Task Manager should be zero. Click on the little graph labeled with 930MX, and make sure all the graphs and stats basically say 0, including the dedicated and shared GPU memory ones, since those are what we care most about (aka VRAM).
  • A personal quirk of mine is having Youtube Videos running in the background, more or less like a podcast. At least on my system, this seems to tank performance, even though it's supposedly running on GPU0. Forcing the video to use a lower resolution (e.g. 144p since I'm not watching it anyway) seems to mitigate this.
I hope some people find this helpful. I know it's not perfect by any means, but personally, I find it reasonably playable with 2GB of VRAM with the above steps followed. I tried to make it as clear as possible, but again, if you're not comfortable messing with random settings on your computer and willing to take responsibility for the results, don't.
Masfa
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:59

Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Masfa »

Hello Cg089, thanks a lot for your reply.

I really appreciate you taking the time to so thoroughly describe your tweaks to improve you running the game.
I already have tried some solutions like, as you mentioned, the LOD settings and graphics resolution. What I haven't tried yet was your "borderless" solution as oposed to "full resolution". I'll try that too.
I also checked and the game is using the GeForce 930MX, but, as you mention, those are important steps to make sure everyone is using the right graphics card to improve the gaming experience.
I've also looked around and tweaked the allocated graphics VRAM, as explained in this link: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/video-ram-windows-10/.

Hopefully, all these adjustments will help other players out there to fully enjoy this game, which, I believe, will have even more exciting features in the near future :)

Happy gaming everyone
Cg089
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Cg089 »

I'm not sure if windowed vs borderless vs fullscreen has any performance impact; personally, I just find borderless better because I can alt-tab out to look at the production flowcharts, and I get to make use of the whole screen, which feels more immersive. Honestly, that tweak is my newest change; I got tired of it being a tiny window. I think it may help a little since it removes any compositing (in other words, having to overwrite the frame of your desktop etc produced by the integrated graphics with the contents of X4's window), but I'm not sure. And it's definitely a tradeoff - the scaling algorithms used are imperfect (obviously, or we could run games at lower resolutions and get more performance "for free"), and they are constrained by the fact they have to be fast and lightweight. Of course, it's possible that the scaling algorithms hurt performance slightly, but I suspect that happens on the integrated graphics side of things (since at least on my machine, that's what actually is the "display adapter" that drives the screen), so it may not hurt performance at all. I don't know, while I know a lot about computer science, graphics are a whole specialty that I do not have much experience with. When I changed my screen resolution to 1280x720, the result looked worse than running it windowed to my eyes (the text was awful). When I changed it to 1280x768, the text looked a lot cleaner than at 1280x720, and I prefer it to the windowed, even if the text is a bit blurry.

The allocated VRAM tip is something I looked into a long while back, and I don't think it will actually help. That's generally primarily for the integrated graphics (the integrated graphics do not have any RAM of their own, so you have to allocate some RAM to be "VRAM"). Whereas the dedicated graphics have their own VRAM, and I believe beyond that, Vulkan can pull the same trick of using RAM as VRAM. The issue is, the VRAM within the card is a lot faster for the video card to access than the system RAM, unless I'm mistaken. So I might play with that setting, but I suspect it won't make a big difference. Let me know if I'm mistaken (i.e. if you saw a large performance boost from doing so).
Masfa
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:59

Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Masfa »

Hello again Cg089
You really know your stuff!
As you seem to do, I've been trying everything I could think of...
But you are right; the tweak in allocating graphics VRAM doesn't look like it is making much difference in performance. However, I let it be anyway... It won't really harm that much neither, right?
In the end, between lowering resolution or/and graphics quality or anti-aliasing, there isn't much one can do, I think.
Thanks for your help and knowledge.
Best regards
Cg089
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Cg089 »

Hi Masfa,

I wouldn't really say that - I've just dug into it a bit more and have a bit more background. I'm still a noob compared to the devs.

No, it shouldn't do any harm as far as I know (as long as you're not running out of RAM, anyway).

One other thing is that you probably want Vsync on triple-buffering Vsync, since thanks to Nvidia driver bugs, that setting actually means No Vsync. That might increase your framerate a bit.

Personally, my framerate is all over the place - I can get 70fps in open space. Then again, my card (at least according to benchmarks) is twice as fast as yours, even though it has the same amount of VRAM (which is what's killing us, e.g. disappearing textures). So you might be able to get similar performance, but it's probably gonna be at least a bit lower. My card is just plain weird - college said "get this laptop", so I did. Since it's an engineering school they need a professional level card since various applications used by some of the other majors really need those features (Computer aided design or CAD software, in particular, makes use of some professional video card only features). So they got the bottom of the line professional level card, so I'm gaming on an Quadro M1000M... unfortunately they got the 2GB model. If they'd gone a laptop with a 4GB Quadro M1000M or if I had been in the next class and gotten the next version of the laptop which had a M2000M with 3GB, I wouldn't be in this boat. Sigh.

And I do have some more insight into exactly why artifacts show up after a while (already shared it with the devs in another topic - in the open beta forum). I think it comes down to memory fragmentation, if you're curious I made a long post about it. It is probably possible for them to mitigate it to some degree, but it's really an annoying problem and not something that you can really fix, just reduce, and it can have performance implications to do so. I can't say for certain, but I think they may have done some work in that direction, since the 2.0 beta seems to be better for me. If they have and are reading this, thanks again :)

It seems to be especially bad when there are tons of ships, which makes sense. The little mass transporters etc on screen seem to be a good example of this. There's a mod out there that disables them, but unfortunately the mass traffic isn't entirely cosmetic, they do transport cargo. I may look into tweaking the number of them way down and the capacity of each way up (so that they move the same amount of cargo total). I'll let you know if that helps when I get around to doing that.
Masfa
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 17:59

Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Masfa »

Hi Cg089
Again, thanks for your information and care.
I know about Quadro cards; they're recommended by Autodesk for their software Maya, which I used often in the past, in an old job I had... I always wanted a Quadro because of that :)
Sadly you have a laptop, which can't be upgraded as desktops can, right? But,still, you have an excellent graphics card, don't regret it.
I've been reading also lots of things about the game and have the right V-Sync configuration. Even tweaked the sound to Egosoft recommendations (in case of "Severe lag when in closed station rooms or in the spacesuit").
Hopefully, Egosoft may find ways to improve the game by addressing issues like the one you pointed out. I'm hopeful that they will do that right now, for X4 Foundations, since it may be usefull for future games. Since they are somewhat leading the vulkan usage in games, I'm sure they are maybe dealing with some "uncharted space".
Let's wait for coming upgrades and fixes; maybe they will turn out good for us (poor 2GB graphics cards owners).
Best regards
Cg089
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri, 18. Jan 19, 19:25
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Cg089 »

Yeah, unfortunately laptops still aren't really upgradeable. As I alluded to previously, I'm considering an external GPU - many laptops now support it over Thunderbolt, but it's still a frontier and a bit hit or miss. So while if I spring for it, it'll very likely improve my gaming experience, I also don't expect too much support for it from developers & the laptops' manufacturer. And it's much cheaper than a new laptop.

And Quadros are nice, I agree. But also this particular one was pretty much bottom of the line when I bought the laptop, and pretty outdated in general. So I would be better off with a higher end gaming card from that era. But oh well.

And yeah, it looks to me like Egosoft is pushing the frontier, which I admire. I think they did improve this stuff some for the 2.0 public beta (whether intentionally or as a side-effect of performance optimizations), so if you haven't already opted into that (there's instructions somewhere on the forum here, as well as the steam forum), I recommend checking that out (after you backup your saves, though it's been pretty stable for me).
Misunderstood Wookie
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Re: improved performance soon? - Inadequate system hardware

Post by Misunderstood Wookie »

Masfa wrote: Tue, 19. Feb 19, 23:27 Thanks CBJ for the reply. I was just hoping to play confortably the game, since I really like it... Congrats on the work, though; very well done.

Thanks also to Shehriazad. I value the work Egosoft has been doing all these years, make no mistake.
I have a less than a year old laptop with an integrated Intel UHD Graphics 620+GeForce 930 MX, and a 8th generation quad core i5-8250U processor; also, all the drivers for intel, nVidia and even Bios are up to date; I must enphasize that I can play with no problems games like F1 2018, assetto corsa 1.16.2, project cars 2, farcry 5, just cause 4, ace combat 7, etc...

Best regards
Don't hold your breath,
I was running this on an i7-3820 @ 4.3ghz 16GB ddr3 2133mhz & AMD R9 290 4GB slight OC on that too, and no dice even on the lowest setting the only thing which net me a stable 49-65fps was the LOD distance on 20 and the rest basically disabled no shadows, no anything except FXAA High & SSAO Normal.

Turns out this game "shocker" favours more threads, so I upgraded too a Xeon 1650v0 6 core 12 threads, I clocked this thing up too 4.5ghz on all six cores and threw in a Gigabyte RX 480 G1 Gaming card and the game runs much much smoother now it hits an avrg of 76 fps when flying around and 49 on stations instead of the measly 30-35 on stations. (I have another RX 480 in the mail that I want to test crossfire with)

So far from my hours of testing, The problem lies with thread optimisation from what I can tell, the GPU is not being taxed all that much given the fact that on a station turning on shadows to high and all the other stuff barely dented the frame rate at all even on my old gear and it still barely dents the frame rate up or down all turning off the whistles do for me is improve my lowest fps by a margin of 5 frame or so while the biggest impact has still been the LOD slider, but adding more cores to the system via a CPU transplant did net higher avrgs.
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