Why no early access?

[skullair]

Hello,
So I was just wondering, why egosoft didn't put this game in early access. The state of the game is not as bad as rebirth, but there are tons of bugs that should and could have been fixed before release... I mean, to find bugs you don't have to look hard.

I understand that some system configurations have not been tested, but some of those bugs ( did) apear everywhere:

Ships crashing into stations
Weirdly spawney an indestructable stations
Rep los when dedending yourself
Incomplete sound and text files
Broken missions

The list goes on...

If they sign us up as beta testers, they should tell us at least, bring the game to a state in which critical bugs are not common anymore and then release it.

Since there is no publisher this time EA was a viable option to release it before christmas. But no, it had to be yet another botched release. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the working part of this game, but man, have they learned nothing?

[mr.WHO]

Hi, you must be new to the X-series.

Release = Early access.

Come back in 6 months when the game will be patched up.

[skullair]

No I play since reunion( but I got the retail versions much later than the release)

What I meant is that you cannot release the game as "done" when you are actually playing a beta.
Just put it in early access, tell us it's a beta, and that's it.
Don't reduce the price, just let people know what to expect before they get angry.

After all egosoft hurts itself with that practic since new customers will refund when they are overwhelmed by bugs.

[mr.WHO]

No X-game has been released as finished product since X-Tension.
Egosoft did Early Access before the name Early Access was a thing
Deal with it.

[Bozz11]

I pêrsonnally knew it would be like this, I still bought the game to support the Idea of the game, because I love what it tries to do !
Still the early part of the game is enjoyable, I had some fun and now I wait for them to finish the game before really playing it

[Nexuscrawler]

@skullair
This will get you nowhere. People will just tell you that it's always been that way and to deal with it.

[LordFlinx]

@skullair
This will get you nowhere. People will just tell you that it's always been that way and to deal with it.

My, but its such fun to complain in the forum ?

[Nexuscrawler]

My, but its such fun to complain in the forum ?

Where else?

[Drzator]

This strategy harm small amount of players, basicly only players who have $$ only for 1 game and this game need to be tip top, have bad algorithm for chosing "tip top" games, have never play X series before.
We all know that game will be tip top sooner or later, it is single play game so game will weiting for "you", probablw we will also se "X Core" and "X Super Nova".

[LordFlinx]

My, but its such fun to complain in the forum ?

Where else?

Pro use Twich or YouTube and earn money while bitching

[Perahoky]

i agree with the OP and would like to know whats the reason... financial reasons? too much workflow overhead through the feedback etc. ?
i think its much more overhead when released unfinished and every dumb sends the same error again and again instead of experienced people ...

[Nexuscrawler]

Pro use Twich or YouTube and earn money while bitching

Well, way to prove my point I guess.

[Taramafor]

Release = Early access.

False. And also bull-shit.

Early acces is exactly that. Early access. A RELEASED game is a COMPLETE and POLISHED game. Or is supposed to be. Unless it's an indie game, it's expected with those. NOT with AAA games however.

The only reason to release a unfinished/unpolished game (and this one CLEARLY is) is because of greed. Devs think they can get away with not stating it's early access and so try releasing it as "done". But I aren't having it. Past X games got away with it because they Were newer for their time. THIS game takes steps backwards from past X games. That's the difference. And hence "early access".

Don't reduce the price, just let people know what to expect before they get angry.

And none of the above I just stated would be an issue if THIS was done. This is why early access bloody exists. You can release a game when there's a BIT to be done. But when it's a LOT then that's what early access is for. And there IS a lot to do in X4. Weapon descriptions in shops don't even exist apparently. If that's not early access then what is?

[Kadatherion]

What I always love the most about this debate, is that people think that when it comes to actual sales early access and 1.0 releases are much different. I'll tell you a secret: they aren't. Most people interested in the game will buy it as soon as it's out, whether it's tagged as full release or early access. The wise ones who control themselves in front of the early access tag are what wise people always are: one of a kind.

The harsh reality is, the early access fad only serves (except for the relatively rare case of indie devs that need it pretty much like a kickstarter to pay for further development) one thing: to make people feel less scammed when they are paying instead of being paid to do the work of beta testers and QA teams (god bless that lost category of workers, and their now starving families). Well, they may feel so, but still they got scammed, hard. With a difference: the developers/producers of an early access title feel and are then even less required to bring the job to its fruiful accomplishment. The high percentage of games that are forever lost in eternal "early access" are proof of that.

Honestly, I would be VERY scared the day Egosoft releases an X game in "official" early access: to my eyes, it would be the hint they have already thrown the towel and this time they are ready to not keep supporting their game for as long and as deeply as they did in the past. This, of course, doesn't change the fact that releasing unfinished, faulty products is not excusable, but early access isn't the "solution": it's just another way to justify releasing unfinished products while already asking money for it.

[Taramafor]

What I always love the most about this debate, is that people think that when it comes to actual sales early access and 1.0 releases are much different. I'll tell you a secret: they aren't. Most people interested in the game will buy it as soon as it's out, whether it's tagged as full release or early access. The wise ones who control themselves in front of the early access tag are what wise people always are: one of a kind.

The harsh reality is, the early access fad only serves (except for the relatively rare case of indie devs that need it pretty much like a kickstarter to pay for further development) one thing: to make people feel less scammed when they are paying instead of being paid to do the work of beta testers.

1: When people are MADE AWARE of the state of a game then they have the facts. The devs that go early access are stating you are indeed helping to improve the game. And that your funding may even be needed in that regard. I see nothing wrong with this. No deceit or lies. And therefor not falling into the realms of scamming. Unless empty promises are made that are never fulfilled. It's also made clear you probably have to wait for the good stuff. But it's expected with early access. And therefor HONEST.

2: It IS scamming when you release a game at full price without so much as a warning about the lack of content in it. 1 is the lesser of two evils if nothing else. While a lot of games can remain in early access I for one don't doubt that Egosoft will get the game done in a timely manner. Unlike a lot of others that have had early access games left to linger forevermore. And I think you know that as well as I do.

3: Wherever people get a game in early access or 1.0 is moot. Some people like to help improve a game and others like to wait to be fully hit in the face with 1.0. As I stated earlier OTHER companies/devs can fall short. But is it a problem where THIS company is concerned? Even I don't think it is. But I DO have a problem with lack of content being shoved into my face at every turn and not a word of warning was given about it beforehand. Early access isn't a "fad", though it might have started as one. It's also the TRUTH about the state a game is in. Next you'll be knocking off games like Rimworld, which SURVIVED on early access before release. So by this logic if X4 was out as early access would we all already be improving the game with the devs instead of complaining about it? Probably. Releasing a game as 1.0 in this unpolished state ALWAYS results in angry customers and the devs getting flak instead of more positive/constructive feedback. What's more the SALES also take a hit in the long run. Because of the angry customers. They stop buying future products. Or supporting the current one.

Reality is what you make of it. If it's harsh then stop insulting people by doing harsh things yourself.

[Lord Dakier]

There was no early access because it was decided not to be the case. Typically sales would be affected by that, yes. I've never played a game in early access then gone on to play it as much after its proper release, except arguably PUBG, which I still don't play nowhere near as much.

Now you can argue the game upon 'full release' was no tested well enough at the Q&A stage then fair enough, but to point to the regularity of patches coming through and the communication being passed on is far better than you will find with most developers. Egosoft typically try and do right by me and many of the people here. I mean, shit some of the stuff is annoying, but just get on with it and it'll be fixed sooner than later.

[Ornias]

What I always love the most about this debate, is that people think that when it comes to actual sales early access and 1.0 releases are much different. I'll tell you a secret: they aren't. Most people interested in the game will buy it as soon as it's out, whether it's tagged as full release or early access. The wise ones who control themselves in front of the early access tag are what wise people always are: one of a kind.

The harsh reality is, the early access fad only serves (except for the relatively rare case of indie devs that need it pretty much like a kickstarter to pay for further development) one thing: to make people feel less scammed when they are paying instead of being paid to do the work of beta testers.

1: When people are MADE AWARE of the state of a game then they have the facts. The devs that go early access are stating you are indeed helping to improve the game. And that your funding may even be needed in that regard. I see nothing wrong with this. No deceit or lies. And therefor not falling into the realms of scamming. Unless empty promises are made that are never fulfilled.

2: It IS scamming when you release a game at full price without so much as a warning about the lack of content in it. 1 is the lesser of two evils if nothing else. While a lot of games can remain in early access I for one don't doubt that Egosoft will get the game done in a timely manner. Unlike a lot of others that have had early access games left to linger forevermore. And I think you know that as well as I do.

3: Wherever people get a game in early access or 1.0 is moot. Some people like to help improve a game and others like to wait to be fully hit in the face with 1.0. As I stated earlier OTHER companies/devs can fall short. But is it a problem where THIS company is concerned? Even i don't think it is. But I DO have a problem with lack of content being shoved into my face at every turn and not a word of warning was given about it beforehand. Early access isn't a "fad", though it might have started as one. It's also the TRUTH about the state a game is in. Next you'll be knocking off games like Rimworld, which SURVIVED on early access before release. So by this logic if X4 was out as early access would we all already be improving the game with the devs instead of complaining about it? Probably.

2. You made one mistake: Besides the economy bug, no promised content has been missing.

People, including you also don't seem to get what the difference between ALPHA, BETA and Release is...
Alpha is not yet feature complete, beta is feature complete... You cant call something a beta and complain about it not being feature complete within 2 sentences. What is it, an alpha (feature incomplete) or a beta (feature compelete).
It's feature complete, all promised features are in.

Calling something a scam because the product is not "good enough" in terms of stability, is actually a crime under most jurisdictions. You cant call someone or something a scam, just because you don't like the delivered product.
Did they tell it's 100% stable? no. Thus you cant call them a scammer for it being unstable
Did they tell you it includes certain content you don't even care to specify? Doubt it (heared this argument before, yet none complaining about missing content is able to back that complaint up. ). Thus you cant call them a scammer for their product being "Bad" or "Not good enough"

Don't go name-calling if you don't like the quality of a product. Just say you don't like the quality.

I personally find Early Access closer to a scam, you are paying for something without any promise of actual delivery. You are paying for a dream, but instead of a normal High-Risk Investment ROI (think 3-8%) you actually often don't get any ROI. It's a donation with a facade of being a product and on top of all that shitshow, they don't even have to supply any of the normal investment documentation and thus circumvent any investment-laws. In my honest opinion we should outlaw early access and let developers launch fair and honest crowd-investment initiatives INCLUDING the required documentation for such investment rounds.

And don't get me started about companies using Early Access (or kickstarter) funds to get investments form bigger investors, like Star Citizen did. We already have a bad deal in terms of investment, but do so to support the developer, which inturn uses our bad-investment to get bigger investment fish into the project (which actually do make a nice ROI on their investment).

No if you go looking into the actual economics behind Early Access, that's nasty close to being a scam. Just simply delivering a bad product isn't/

[CaptainX4]

What I always love the most about this debate, is that people think that when it comes to actual sales early access and 1.0 releases are much different. I'll tell you a secret: they aren't. Most people interested in the game will buy it as soon as it's out, whether it's tagged as full release or early access. The wise ones who control themselves in front of the early access tag are what wise people always are: one of a kind.

The harsh reality is, the early access fad only serves (except for the relatively rare case of indie devs that need it pretty much like a kickstarter to pay for further development) one thing: to make people feel less scammed when they are paying instead of being paid to do the work of beta testers and QA teams (god bless that lost category of workers, and their now starving families). Well, they may feel so, but still they got scammed, hard. With a difference: the developers/producers of an early access title feel and are then even less required to bring the job to its fruiful accomplishment. The high percentage of games that are forever lost in eternal "early access" are proof of that.

Honestly, I would be VERY scared the day Egosoft releases an X game in "official" early access: to my eyes, it would be the hint they have already thrown the towel and this time they are ready to not keep supporting their game for as long and as deeply as they did in the past. This, of course, doesn't change the fact that releasing unfinished, faulty products is not excusable, but early access isn't the "solution": it's just another way to justify releasing unfinished products while already asking money for it.

aaaaand you are dead wrong, early acces is there to WARN newcomers that hey, approach with care. Not putting that tag there is a LIE...

No if you go looking into the actual economics behind Early Access, that's nasty close to being a scam. Just simply delivering a bad product isn't/

haha, i have to laugh at statements like this NO, this is exactly the other way around. delivering a lie is a scam, being honest and having an early access is NOT

[Kadatherion]

1: When people are MADE AWARE of the state of a game then they have the facts. The devs that go early access are stating you are indeed helping to improve the game. And that your funding may even be needed in that regard. I see nothing wrong with this. No deceit or lies. And therefor not falling into the realms of scamming. Unless empty promises are made that are never fulfilled.

2: It IS scamming when you release a game at full price without so much as a warning about the lack of content in it. 1 is the lesser of two evils if nothing else. While a lot of games can remain in early access I for one don't doubt that Egosoft will get the game done in a timely manner. Unliek a lot of others that have had early access games left to linger forevermore. And I think you know that as well as I do.

3: If you're wise then why did you get the game right as it came out? I'm assuming you played it if you're posting about it.

1 - You are doing for free - no, actually you PAY for doing it - what always was supposed to be the job of the developers and their now dismantled QA teams. If you are masochist enough to be happy with that, then more power to you, but it doesn't change the fact. They are adamant it would have been so? Sure, so what? It's just as greedy with only one thing added on top: the very nerve you call "honesty". While this MAY be perfectly excused for the very indie teams you've spoken of, as there's a NEED for it to bring a project to fruition, how can a professional software house justify that? It's your very own words. BTW, but this is collateral, X isn't an AAA title anyway, never was, never will.

2 - If you have no doubts Egosoft will get the game done (and I have none myself), then what's your problem? They will. The only possible difference worth of notice left in your reasoning, then, is you'd have wanted them to release it as early access so they could have made you pay less for it? Not much else tangible is left in the argument. Well, you don't need the early access tag to charge less (only to charge MORE later), but it's nonsense from a business perspective, because most of the playerbase - at the very least of a game such as this - would have bought it then anyway, thus reducing their revenue overall. And no, they're not a charity and they don't make games for the fun of it, they make games to earn money, just as every single one of us works a job for earning an income, not because of some higher mission.

You don't launch on early access because you want to make someone feel better, you decide whether to do it or not if it's profitable. If it is, you do, if it isn't, you don't. There's no other variable in the matter, none, zero, nil. Of course, how an incomplete game at launch might be received counts for that: will the backlash make us lose money? It might, so you may decide to go for the "honest" early access to minimize such losses. But after the taint to their name Rebirth was, going for early access would have been suicide: it would have looked like an admission they can't do it. And still, even when early access, the first impression is all that matters in games. Only future will tell, of course, if the decision was indeed the wiser one or not, but it wasn't a decision made for you, it never was and never will be, by anyone. They are here to make money, not friends, grow up and learn to live with that.

3 - Speaking of wisdom, reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte. Where have I said I consider myself amongst the wise who refrain from purchasing a title at launch? In this case of course I wasn't. Although I didn't expect any less (or, well, "more") - I was also pretty much perfectly aware of the state of the game, as I've watched about 20 hours of its gameplay before buying - so what? My experience with it would have been exactly the same whether it was launched as 1.0 or 0.5. So would yours. It's just a number, it doesn't change the game.

Again, the only possible, tangible difference left is price. Then, instead of speaking of early access, just say the only thing in your argument that makes sense, and what you really mean: dear Egosoft, if you want to release half finished games that's fine with me, but don't charge me 50 bucks, charge me 25. This could be a perfectly reasonable argument, I might even agree with you wholly and not just when it comes to Egosoft but pretty much 80% of the industry nowadays. But don't try to cover it with the "early access" mantle, it's silly and it just indicates you're keen to fall for what really is a widespread and regularly exploited scheme.
Again, there's no excuse for releasing an unfinished product and still asking money for it, this is out of discussion however we'd like to call them. It's what I said myself earlier so there's really little space for rebuttal. on this in the end we are saying the same thing.

Only other possible thing left is "I didn't expect the game to be half finished". That, as well, would be legitimate. But you registered on these forums 10 years ago. Don't come tell us you didn't know how Egosoft games usually are at launch. The only explanation is you're not mad at Egosoft, you're mad at yourself for, once again, falling for it. Egosoft is still at fault for the state of its launch, nothing can change that, but you are just trying to find a way to not feel at fault yourself for still going with the flow that has become prominent. Complaining "why didn't you go for early access", just means "why didn't you tell me how the game was", which in turn, is just as solid as complaining "why didn't you finish the game already?". That can be a feeling I understand, but screaming at clouds like granpa Simpsons won't be the answer.

[Nexuscrawler]

Calling something a scam because the product is not "good enough" in terms of stability, is actually a crime under most jurisdictions. Did they tell it's 100% stable? no. Thus you cant call them a scammer for it being unstable.

I screwed up building your house, but if you say anything about it's stability, I'll sue for defamation.
Did I tell you it would be stable? No! Those were your unreasonable expectations.

This is getting ridiculous. Do you even hear yourself?
Can you not expect a product to work anymore?
I heard a lot in the defense of Egosoft, but never did someone threaten to sue in their defense.
I have close to 200 hours into the game now and I like it so far, but how can you be so oblivious to anything that's wrong with the game?