how to use stick for cockpit look around? (BUG filed)

[rayx]

I want to use the stick to control cockpit look around. I have discovered how to toggle look around, but it only uses the mouse, and that means taking my hand off of the stick while trying to fly. How? Please be specific (screen, menu, button, ...). I can barely make the game work.

BTW, the manual needs a LOT more detail regarding controls. The tutorials are hard to follow and superficially cover issues. I am not having fun spending so much time to do basic things. Spoils what otherwise looks like a fun game.

[Bellatormonk]

CAn you go in to the Control settings and remap the View keys to the HAT on the stick?

[rayx]

In Settings > Controls > General > Camera, there are Camera Left/Right/Up/Down options that I bound to POV Left/Right/Up/Down.
My Camera Mouse Look is Shift+Middle Mouse Button, which I use to initiate cockpit look around, but only the mouse looks around.
Thanks Bellatormonk. Did I do what you had in mind?
Update:
Had an old Filco number pad around, plugged it in, and discovered how look around was intended to work. (Devs, explanation in manual please)
Unfortunately, the key bindings in Settings for Camera Left/... are completely ignored: the Num keys drive the camera even when they unbound in settings. No other keys work. ... BUG

[Socratatus]

I have tried mapping views to HAT on a joystick, it just don`t work. I can`t even get it to work on a gamepad either.

[Mordhar]

I found a workaround that allows using analog input for headlook. It requires manual editing of control profile file. It has some limitations, but at least works.
In the bottom of inputmap_1.xml find two entries:

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<range id="INPUT_RANGE_MOUSELOOK_YAW" source="INPUT_SOURCE_MOUSEAXES" code="INPUT_MOUSEAXIS_X_RAW"/>
<range id="INPUT_RANGE_MOUSELOOK_PITCH" source="INPUT_SOURCE_MOUSEAXES" code="INPUT_MOUSEAXIS_Y_RAW"/>

And add two new lines under each of them respectively:

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<range id="INPUT_RANGE_MOUSELOOK_YAW" source="INPUT_SOURCE_JOYAXES" code="INPUT_JOYAXIS_X"/>
<range id="INPUT_RANGE_MOUSELOOK_PITCH" source="INPUT_SOURCE_JOYAXES" code="INPUT_JOYAXIS_Y"/>

Note that instead of SOURCE_JOYAXES you may need to use SOURCE_JOYAXES_2 or 3 or whatever number your stick is using. For HOTAS mini-stick JOYAXIS_X may become JOYAXIS_SLIDER2. You need to figure out which names your stick using in profile (it uses X-BOX names for buttons and axes).
Save the file and reload your saved control profile in game.

It binds your stick for headlook in “pan camera” mode. When you move stick, it starts to turn camera in that direction. When you return stick to neutral position - camera stops where you left it.
Main problem is that camera turn rate is quite slow and requires maximum sensitivity setting for mouselook, limiting its practical use. Another is the “pan” (relative) transition instead of “direct” (absolute).

Sadly, the lack of analog axis control of the headlook is a bigger problem than even lack of TrackIR support.
Not everyone have head-tracking devices. Not so much users with flight sticks.
But gamepads are quite common and usually have dual analog sticks.
Using one stick with a toggle button for headlook may be an ideal solution. And it also allows use of mini-sticks on some HOTAS or even head-trackers that use axis output (like EDtracker or Gametrix).
However for that to work it needs absolute transition of axis input to camera position, not relative as used in above-mentioned workaround.


If someone of development team see this post.

Please add bindable analog axes as headlook option.
It can be done in aforementioned way as a temporary solution, the code is there and it works. Just add ability to set it from in-game menu.

And PLEASE, I beg you! Add a full support of “absolute” camera control.

Normally it even easier to implement than “pan camera” from coding point of view.
By “absolute” I mean when axis input directly controls camera angle. When stick is in neutral position camera looks forward, moving stick 50% to the left sets camera to half of the possible angle in that direction, and so on.
While there is no need to discuss importance of TrackIR, there are also different ways to control camera. And implementation of absolute analog axis control may completely solve any headlook-related problems for ALL users with ANY input devices besides TrackIR/FreeTrack. From single gamepad users (one stick in toggle mode “ship control-headlook”) to hi-end HOTAS+headtracker setups.
Which is quite a good deal from “development time/practical value” point of view.

[Gregorovitch]

I've been meaning to post something about this too. I think it's definitely a priority to make cockpit look-around bindable to either a hat or an analog stick. It's so awkward to get the numpad using a HOTAS I simply don't, and that's a serious PITA.

A key element of any solution to this is that it must be auto-centering. If you look left, for example, you will want the view to snap back to straight as soon as you take your finger off the stick/hat/whatever.

[GCU Grey Area]

Definitely agree, aside from finding it far more convenient to have cockpit view control on the joystick hat, I'm also left-handed & numpad is by far the most convenient location for my strafe controls (numpad is my equivalent to WASD). However can't do that because there's no way of unbinding view control from there.

[alado]

+10000000 or trackir

[Mordhar]

I've been meaning to post something about this too. I think it's definitely a priority to make cockpit look-around bindable to either a hat or an analog stick. It's so awkward to get the numpad using a HOTAS I simply don't, and that's a serious PITA.

A key element of any solution to this is that it must be auto-centering. If you look left, for example, you will want the view to snap back to straight as soon as you take your finger off the stick/hat/whatever.

For more “serious” devices like HOTAS, emulation of numpad keys can be done by device profiler. Which usually present in more or less advanced form in software provided with such a device.
In this case, you need to bind numpad keys to HAT directions (ALL directions separately, for example up-right as Num-9). Set macros to “press once” when you hold HAT. And “press Num-5 once” on HAT release.
This way it will work as “hold with auto-center”. But it requires use of third-party software, normally not provided with gamepads and cheaper joysticks.

For mouse+keyboard or gamepad it is still possible to use programs such as AutoHotKey or Xpadder.
But again, it is third-party software, sometimes paid-for. Thus forcing end-users to install/configure additional software and/or pay for it, which is generally not seen as a good practice. Unlike some years ago, modern users of games are rarely willing to go through additional steps to be able to effectively use in-game functions.

This is why native support for different headlook controls is needed.
In form of analog input it encompasses around 90% of control device varieties (in fact everything that is not KB+mouse, TrackIR and its protocol emulations or VR HMD).

For HAT-switch it is much better to not make it auto-center ONLY. Instead, give the user choice in form of “toggle/hold” setting/checkbox.
For mini-stick (analog HAT), gamepad’s stick or axis-based head-tracker auto-centering occurs “naturally” if implemented as “absolute input”. It is because analog input transits directly into camera angle, and when input axis returns to neutral position camera also returns to center.

[Mordhar]

Definitely agree, aside from finding it far more convenient to have cockpit view control on the joystick hat, I'm also left-handed & numpad is by far the most convenient location for my strafe controls (numpad is my equivalent to WASD). However can't do that because there's no way of unbinding view control from there.

I think it is probably possible to do by manually editing input config file.
Find:

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  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_LEFT" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD4"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_RIGHT" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD6"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_UP" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD8"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_DOWN" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD2"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_UP_LEFT" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD7"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_UP_RIGHT" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD9"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_DOWN_LEFT" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD1"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_DOWN_RIGHT" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD3"/>

and

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  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_CHANGEMODE" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD0"/>
  <action id="INPUT_ACTION_CAMERA_RESETVIEW" source="INPUT_SOURCE_KEYBOARD" code="INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD5"/>

And replace INPUT_KEYCODE_NUMPAD* with keys of your choice.

At least it worth a try (just make backup of your config file in case something go wrong).

[GCU Grey Area]

I think it is probably possible to do by manually editing input config file.

Thanks for the advice, have tried that but was only partially successful.
Tried moving camera controls elsewhere on the keyboard & while this did free up the numpad so I could set it to strafe controls, unfortunately it also broke the camera controls (the new keys I'd set for that in inputmap did nothing). Ended up reverting to backup, do need functional camera controls too. However, was certainly useful to learn where all the input settings are located, but there's something weird going on with those camera controls that's beyond my level of tinkering.

[rayx]

I've been meaning to post something about this too. I think it's definitely a priority to make cockpit look-around bindable to either a hat or an analog stick. It's so awkward to get the numpad using a HOTAS I simply don't, and that's a serious PITA.

A key element of any solution to this is that it must be auto-centering. If you look left, for example, you will want the view to snap back to straight as soon as you take your finger off the stick/hat/whatever.

For more “serious” devices like HOTAS, emulation of numpad keys can be done by device profiler. Which usually present in more or less advanced form in software provided with such a device.
-snip-

Unfortunately, not all sticks have keybind capability. Virpil for example.

Really though, this is a BUG, when you can't get settings to honor a new keybind. Like binding [ to Camera Left and clearing Num 4 in settings. Game ignores the keybinds and keeps the Num 4 assignment.

And, I filed a bug report that seems to have been deleted. Way to go X4 team.

Will try filing bug report one more time.