[Request]3D artists for npcs. Nice work, but please improve the look of NPCs in X4.

[Socratatus]

Now that we have a more `personal` game with the ability to walk around and act like we`re really `there`, with the ability to go right up and talk to people, the one bug-bear is the very rough look of the npcs. I can see that the animators did a pretty good job of getting them running about and doing stuff, but the artist who designed the faces and and bodies needs to improve the looks of these guys.

My suggestions:

1. Work on the EYES. RELAX the eyes a little so they aren`t staring like robots. This is especially noticable on black people, especially the black women.
2. Make the faces or heads on black women a little smaller. Don`t make everything so pronounced, especially those wearing helmets. It feels like a white guy trying to depict black people. It shouldn`t feel like that.Please work on this.
3. Smooth out the FACIAL lines on npcs, especially all the women. They seem made to be ugly. Make them look pleasant to look upon (with maybe the odd exception). I might even employ one if you do this. You also make black people quite ugly.
4. Don`t be afraid to make them look attractive. Allow some women to have shoulder-length to long hair, although I understand this could be a graphics limitation.
5. This is more for the animator, but try to get the npc bodies to look a little more relaxed, not so wooden. Relax the arms and don`t let them swing so hard infront of the body.


I want to ENJOY talking to and picking crew or doing jobs for them, making them look good helps towards that.


I`d rather not wait for modders to show you how it should be done.

Danke.

[Soopyyy]

Some of the human NPC's are terrifying, lol.

[ajime]

Personally i could care less how they looked like up close. I prefer to comm them remotely without docking just like xr.

[Socratatus]

Those of us who like this X game because it adds more organic immersion want the people we meet to look right. Those of you who don`t care that`s fine, you do you.

All I ask is for is improved graphics on npcs.

Now with pc computational power and graphics making this possible, I see great potentiial for improving the look of npcs and as a working Freelance artist myself, who often does figures, this stands out to me every time I explore a Station. I guarantee it will only improve the game, especially for new users, to improve the look and graphic fidelity of all npcs, especially the women as you can get away with men not needing to look beautiful.

It doesn`t need that much, just a go over of the faces as I described.

[Scaezaa]

Hi,

Thank you for the feedback. I am the artist who creates those faces, so I appreciate the constructive criticism. It would be nice if you could provide some screenshots of NPCs to specify what you mean.

Best Regards

Scaezaa

[battou]

Hi,

Thank you for the feedback. I am the artist who creates those faces, so I appreciate the constructive criticism. It would be nice if you could provide some screenshots of NPCs to specify what you mean.

Best Regards

Scaezaa

Hi! Great to see someone from art department! )

First of all, thank you! People in X4 look way better and more realistic than in XR.

But I have some criticism about their animations. Especially walking. Ive noticed it in first trailer and now in the game. When walking it seems like people try to put their elbows inside their bodies. Hand try to be too close to body. All body looks very stiff and unnatural. Please, if you can, take a look at this. And also, please, make transitions between animations, thes switch very ubruptly. Maybe some bone vertices lerp or something, like anim blend in Unity3D for example.

Thank you!!

[otto_deluxe]

Hm, so many things come to my mind when I read this thread:
First, it reminds me of a certain let's play / review of they game, where the host said "Why do all those NPCs look so damn soul-less? They're terrifying!"
Then, it reminds me of XR, where everyone was (in my opinion) orders of magnitude uglier, and body suits were the only kind of clothing.
Then, it reminds me of a Teladi faction rep, who wore a helmet half his body size (and ofc only the helmet). Maybe it's just my weird mind, but it felt like a terrible crossover between deadmau5 and .... something safe search would filter. No more detail needed.
Lastly, it reminds me of a mod for XR that overhauled the NPCs (quite) a bit. And what modders can do, if they put their mind to it. Ignoring the amount of slooty mods for Bethesda games, most modded followers for Skyrim (Both Oldrimand Skyrim SE) can make you go "damn, that looks like a realistic person" in a game that is how many years old? 8 or so? To be fair, those modders probably spent months making just one NPC, and ES don't have the time for that, nor would I want them to invest that much time into NPCs. However, it just shows how much you can do even with a very dated engine, as long as your meshes and textures (and animations) are up to snuff.

[JamesTheClarke]

Fully agree with the OP. Especially the current depiction of black characters is a bit problematic, their facial features are so pronounced that it feels almost like a minstrel show. A few stereotypical features can be in a game no matter what ethnic background, but there needs to be a degree of variety otherwise it can slide into an iffy depiction fairly quickly.


Aside from the facial issues of human NPCs I've also noticed that their posture is quite often not just wooden but physically impossible. Multiple times I've seen arms/elbows bend in very unnatural ways and some human NPCs have a rather strange way of standing, I think it has to do with the way the spine was laid out in the model-skeleton. I'll try to take some corresponding screenshots when I'm back home and post them here.

With the non-human NPC's certain animation issues are less pronounced because we don't notice them as strongly as with our own depiction in a game. It's easier to suspend your disbelief for the way lizard people might walk upright - though their foot soles and knees could adjust a bit more to match the surface they are walking on, atm they do what I call the lego-figurine-walk.


In addition to the animation and face model issues, personally, I find it quite jarring to see NPCs wear space helmets while sitting at the desk in their office - no flight suit or gloves, just a helmet and regular clothing. If NPCs on the flight deck of a station walk around in flight suits and helmets that's totally fine, but why would they wear an uncomfortable helmet that restricts their peripheral vision and hearing while filing their TPS reports? Though I gotta admit, I had quite the chuckle walking for the first time into a Teladi station manager office just to find her butt-naked at her desk, wearing nothing but a massive helmet. Pulled a Joey and greeted her with "How you doin'?"

[tSpecR]

Now that we have a more `personal` game with the ability to walk around and act like we`re really `there`, with the ability to go right up and talk to people, the one bug-bear is the very rough look of the npcs. I can see that the animators did a pretty good job of getting them running about and doing stuff, but the artist who designed the faces and and bodies needs to improve the looks of these guys.

My suggestions:

1. Work on the EYES. RELAX the eyes a little so they aren`t staring like robots. This is especially noticable on black people, especially the black women.
2. Make the faces or heads on black women a little smaller. Don`t make everything so pronounced, especially those wearing helmets. It feels like a white guy trying to depict black people. It shouldn`t feel like that.Please work on this.
3. Smooth out the FACIAL lines on npcs, especially all the women. They seem made to be ugly. Make them look pleasant to look upon (with maybe the odd exception). I might even employ one if you do this. You also make black people quite ugly.
4. Don`t be afraid to make them look attractive. Allow some women to have shoulder-length to long hair, although I understand this could be a graphics limitation.
5. This is more for the animator, but try to get the npc bodies to look a little more relaxed, not so wooden. Relax the arms and don`t let them swing so hard infront of the body.


I want to ENJOY talking to and picking crew or doing jobs for them, making them look good helps towards that.


I`d rather not wait for modders to show you how it should be done.

Danke.

Yeah they are a little funny especially in the movement lol. They function ok though, maybe in the future it would be good to get updated. I'm an amateur modeller and my animations are more realistic. Not anywhere near a game breaker or anything but it would be more aesthetically pleasing.

[niksenior]

They are a lil old/wrinkly some of em, and the station manager should iron their shirt lol.

[stimdealer]

Agreed with OP. The NPC's are a bit crude for a 2018 game. Animations and faces need work overall, but aren't terrible. For what the game is (especially the scale!) the NPC's are fine to me.

You guys just want your skyrim glamour mods. =P

[LTerSlash]

NPCs is not, and should not be Egosoft priority, im far more worried about the ships.

[Iristrauma]

Hi,

Thank you for the feedback. I am the artist who creates those faces, so I appreciate the constructive criticism. It would be nice if you could provide some screenshots of NPCs to specify what you mean.

Best Regards

Scaezaa

To put it bluntly, the human NPC models are a throwback to the early 2000's. Not up to today's standard for Human NPC's by a mile. Everyone of them need's drastic improvements across the board. Skin shaders, eyes and faces, hair and the bodies all look stiff and mannequin like...You can do way better...
BTW, I am a character artist retired..Thank God.....

[Slashman]

Umm the artist did ask for screenshots and a description. Think we could post some?

[battou]

Umm the artist did ask for screenshots and a description. Think we could post some?

Im at my work right now. Will be able to post screenshots as soon as I get home.

[Socratatus]

Hi,

Thank you for the feedback. I am the artist who creates those faces, so I appreciate the constructive criticism. It would be nice if you could provide some screenshots of NPCs to specify what you mean.

Best Regards

Scaezaa

Wow. I did not actually expect a response, though I did hope. I will get right onto it!

[radcapricorn]

I think Afro Luigi nailed it.

[nalim27]

Hi,

Thank you for the feedback. I am the artist who creates those faces, so I appreciate the constructive criticism. It would be nice if you could provide some screenshots of NPCs to specify what you mean.

Best Regards

Scaezaa

Hello Scaezaa,
Yours NPCs are definitely best looking compared to all previous X games, so thank you very much for that!

Ofcourse there is allways room for improve it, but I'm nit artist so I can't help you with that.

[Axeface]

I dont think there is anything wrong with the models, its the rigging and animations that need tweaking. The walking and running animations that are new look much better than Rebirth, yet the standing idles are very similar to the Rebirth ones (they look like they have been tweaked a bit). I dont think the models are unattractive at all, in fact I think quite the opposite - it is the way they are animated that can deform them a bit and make them look off. One of the standing idels from Rebirth makes people arms too short for example, it isnt rhe model, at least thats my impression.
The aliens look great by the way, I love the changes to Teladi especially and Paranid are really good. Not sure about split females, a little too elfy for my tastes and quite different from the concepts we've seen, their heads seem very big too, might be the animations again though.

Also, I dont want them to 'smooth' everyone out. I dont want everyone to look like a glamour model. Dont be afraid because of the 'granny' Rebirth memes, please.

especially the women as you can get away with men not needing to look beautiful.

Sorry Socratatus but that is just hillarious.

[Socratatus]

Hi,

Thank you for the feedback. I am the artist who creates those faces, so I appreciate the constructive criticism. It would be nice if you could provide some screenshots of NPCs to specify what you mean.

Best Regards

Scaezaa

Hello, again. Sorry for the delay. getting the main screenshots, since screenies weren`t coming up and getting at the npcs was quite hard with them wandering around and leaving sometimes.
Anyway... I hope my suggestions/views won`t appear harsh as they are not meant to be. I just want npcs, all npcs to look great to interact with. Sorry if I come across too hard; these are just my views which you may or may not apply depending on what you think.


1. This picture is an example of what I mean by too angular or `rough`. This woman for example looks old. In other words ugly.
The face lines are too heavy.
I know you`re trying to be realistic to black people, but seriously, this is deep African type black and not all of them look this harsh.

2. Also you don`t have to have them all quite so deep African dark, 1 or 2 a slightly lighter is perfectly fine.

See this lady for example of not so heavy lines:


She`s pretty much the kind of black person (although shes very light skinned) you seem to be going for in her facial features. Notice how she doesn`t have such deep jowly lines by her nose and mouth? She`s not even all that angular. Now she looks good. And her lightness of skin don`t matter she`d still look good if darker.

White women could also use some smoothing down of the face lines too. It would help them look a tad younger, better. I wanted to get pics of them also, but it took me ages just to do the black ones. I may do the white NPC women later as they could use some smoothing but perhaps my examples here will help.

Also, see the hair. Black women don`t all have dreadlocks.

A small point, but why are they all green eyed? Is this a technical limitation? Most black people are actually dark brown eyed. I guarantee the first black person youtalk to outside will have deep brown eyes. They should not all be green eyed in game. ps. There are also rare blue eyed black people, but I digress.

3. Below: Again, too angular. It appears there`s too much `brow`. This really shows up in certain light conditions.


4. Eyes aren`t relaxed. Especially noticable because of the very dark skin.
although ill admit its part because his head is raised.


It seems to me that the very sides or corners of the eyes are a little too wide they need to close so that less `whites` show.


5. Here the face looks too large for the helmet. Applies to all women generally. That or the helmet isn`t covering enough of the face. It just don`t look right.

Her shoulders need fixing too, seen it with all npcs.



6. Something strange I also noticed while runninga round...




Black women`s arms aren`t the same colour as their heads.

So to sum up:
1. Black people don`t all need to look so harsh in their jowl, mouth, nose lines. I would lighten the lines a little so they don`t all look 50+ years old. being 50 isn`t a bad thing, they just shouldn`t all look 50+!
2. They don`t all need to be so African dark. You can go a little lighter, its not a problem.
3. Too angular chins, cheeks, brows giving them a rather harsh, even ugly, look.
4. The very corners on the outside of the eyes too open. Needs bringing in a little to help reduce the `wide-eyed` effect which is especially noticable on the black npcs.
5. Face in helmets look too big for the women. Maybe needs more helmet or slightly smaller face.
6. Arms are a different colour to head.

I wanted to look at white people too, especially the women, but time was running out. However, they also need smoothing out to look better and not so `old`, in much the same way.

Men generally look ok, including black men as you can get away with them looking angular and a bit more `jowly`.

Animations are pretty good. I noticed women actually running like women generally do. men are a bit stiff and wave their hands in front of their midriff a little too much when walking, but aren`t too bad in general.

That`s just my take to try and help npcs look a little better.

Again, this is just my take. Just my point of view suggestions. You`re the deciding factor. It`s up to you what you leave or what you take. I only want the game X4 Foundation to be better than ever!