Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

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Vaeo
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Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Vaeo »

So. This is the damage of an MK1 Bolt Repeater mounted to a s-size fighter.

<damage value="15" repair="0" />

THIS is the damage the L sized bolt repeater turret that serves as the biggest turret mount for a capital ship (same weapon but in large turret form).

<damage value="11" repair="0" />

Make of turrets what thou wilt. Yes, I hope to put this really shoddy balancing decision on egosoft's radar.

But conclusively. The small MK1 weapon on a s-size fighter does MORE damage than the largest turret on a capital ship of the same weapon type. Yeah. . .

Also the m size of the turret only does 8. :roll:
Last edited by Vaeo on Wed, 12. Dec 18, 07:33, edited 1 time in total.
Velocinox
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Velocinox »

What is a snub fighter?
Vaeo
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Vaeo »

Velocinox wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 07:27 What is a snub fighter?
S-size ship.
Velocinox
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Velocinox »

Heh, are you just making that up since you heard it in Star Wars? :D
Vaeo
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Vaeo »

Velocinox wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 07:34 Heh, are you just making that up since you heard it in Star Wars? :D
Probably! I don't actually remember where I heard the term snub fighter. : p But that was probably it. It reminded me of small ships so i just went with it.
Velocinox
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Velocinox »

Yea, they made it up too.

Just call them small ships here since they can be fighters, couriers, scouts, or interceptors and all use the small weapons. Even the mediums using a small weapon still only do that damage without a modification attached.
Arvel
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Arvel »

There's a large Bolt Repeater turret? I've only ever seen medium Bolt Repeater turrets.
Vaeo
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Vaeo »

Arvel wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 07:47 There's a large Bolt Repeater turret? I've only ever seen medium Bolt Repeater turrets.
Apparently so:

<macro name="bullet_gen_turret_l_gatling_01_mk1_macro" class="bullet">
<component ref="bullet_gen_m_gatling_01_mk1" />
<properties>
<ammunition value="18" reload="1" />
<bullet speed="1632" lifetime="2.647" amount="1" barrelamount="2" icon="weapon_gatling_mk1" timediff="0.021" angle="0.21" maxhits="2" ricochet="0.01" restitution="0.3" scale="0" attach="0" />
<reload rate="12" />
<damage value="11" repair="0" />
<effects>

I think you can fit them onto certain capital ships. But I haven't unlocked every race's caps yet, and some slot slightly different weps than others, I think. I'm no authority on what ship can equip what, though.

But every other weapon type is similarly screwed over.
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Wou
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Wou »

Aren't the L turrets for station defense platforms while destroyers use M size?
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Arvel
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Arvel »

Destroyers each have some L turret slots. Off the top of my head, Behemoth has 2 large turrets. The Odysseus has 4.

It's possible Large Bolt Turrets are mentioned in the game files but are not implemented in the game. My in-game encyclopedia doesn't list them, and I've access to every faction's shipyard. Roguey's doesn't list them either.

That being the case, let's instead compare Pulse Lasers (stats courtesy of Roguey's site):

S Pulse Laser mk1 - 26 damage, 14 ROF, 4,147m/s, 0.75 sec bullet lifespan, 728 dps.
M Pulse Laser mk1 - 44 damage, 10 ROF, 4,562m/s, 1.10 sec bullet lifespan, 880 dps.
L Pulse Turret mk1 - 17 damage, 9 ROF, 3,878m/s, 1.16 sec bullet lifespan, 306 dps.
M Pulse Turret mk1 - 10 damage, 14 ROF, 3,525m/s, 0.80 sec bullet lifespan, 280 dps.

So we see a decent increase in damage from small to medium pulse weapons (+152 dps). However the increase from Medium to Large turrets is small (26 dps) and large turrets also take a massive hit to their rotation speed - around 25 degrees/sec as opposed to 100+ on medium turrets. The only significant bonus to large turrets is their range.
Vaeo
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Vaeo »

Arvel wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 08:18 Destroyers each have some L turret slots. Off the top of my head, Behemoth has 2 large turrets. The Odysseus has 4.

It's possible Large Bolt Turrets are mentioned in the game files but are not implemented in the game. My in-game encyclopedia doesn't list them, and I've access to every faction's shipyard. Roguey's doesn't list them either.

That being the case, let's instead compare Pulse Lasers (stats courtesy of Roguey's site):

S Pulse Laser mk1 - 26 damage, 14 ROF, 4,147m/s, 0.75 sec bullet lifespan, 728 dps.
M Pulse Laser mk1 - 44 damage, 10 ROF, 4,562m/s, 1.10 sec bullet lifespan, 880 dps.
L Pulse Turret mk1 - 17 damage, 9 ROF, 3,878m/s, 1.16 sec bullet lifespan, 306 dps.
M Pulse Turret mk1 - 10 damage, 14 ROF, 3,525m/s, 0.80 sec bullet lifespan, 280 dps.

So we see a decent increase in damage from small to medium pulse weapons (+152 dps). However the increase from Medium to Large turrets is small (26 dps) and large turrets also take a massive hit to their rotation speed - around 25 degrees/sec as opposed to 100+ on medium turrets. The only significant bonus to large turrets is their range.
Important to note that turrets still do less damage than their main weapon counterparts, even when they are the largest gun strapped to a capital ship. : /
csaba
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by csaba »

Every NPC capital and station seems to pack a literal shitton of missiles because of this.... They do a million times more damage without the need for aiming. Some can 1 shot fighters.

Atleast it keeps the missile economy running. Anyone built a station around this? Might be worth to look into.

Xenon on the other hand have no missiles fitted on their ships/stations. A defense platform opening up on you is scary epic, until they actually hit you and make you relaize it's just all eyecandy. Literally candy hitting your windshield.
Vaeo
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Vaeo »

csaba wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 08:54 Every NPC capital and station seems to pack a literal shitton of missiles because of this.... They do a million times more damage without the need for aiming. Some can 1 shot fighters.

Atleast it keeps the missile economy running. Anyone built a station around this? Might be worth to look into.

Xenon on the other hand have no missiles fitted on their ships/stations. A defense platform opening up on you is scary epic, until they actually hit you and make you relaize it's just all eyecandy. Literally candy hitting your windshield.
I was seriously disappointing. Consider that capital ships are philosophically the END GAME for the FIGHT part of the game. They rely on turrets for ninety percent of their fighting. When egosoft decided to make turrets suck. They decided to make capital ships really suck. And suck they do.
naisha
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by naisha »

I wonder what's the rationale behind this very bizarre balancing ....
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TempestZ
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by TempestZ »

naisha wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 09:28 I wonder what's the rationale behind this very bizarre balancing ....
Just type some numbers, we'll fix it later or leave it for the moders?
Vaeo
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Vaeo »

TempestZ wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 09:36
naisha wrote: Wed, 12. Dec 18, 09:28 I wonder what's the rationale behind this very bizarre balancing ....
Just type some numbers, we'll fix it later or leave it for the moders?
In their interview at 44:51 they admitted to wanting to release turrets as crappier than usual.

The why? Your guess is as good as mine.
Arze
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Re: Context to how bad turret damage is. . .

Post by Arze »

Okay, they want weaker turrets cause they might have been OP in earlier games, I understand but the large turret literally shoots bullets the size of some small ships no? Just from that standpoint it should pack enough punch to one shot an S class fighter. I literally sat there today taking fire from the L class turrets under the Xenon K shooting me dead in the face. Hell the small turrets did more damage to me.

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