Travel mode cheats - should they be removed?

[kmunoz]

There are two major ways to cheat the travel mode:

1) Hitting "full stop" while in travel mode does what it says on the tin, and stops you much, much faster than simply turning off the mode. I use it all the time, because I can, but I wish I couldn't. I think it would be a lot better if you had to plan ahead for your travel mode "braking." Being able to full stop from travel mode is just too cheesy.

2) Flicking flight assist off and on again lets you make very quick course adjustments while in travel mode. The default behavior of the mode is to make turning very slow (and to make it sound like you're shearing the metal off your ship, which is great). But it's just too easy to make major navigational changes by toggling flight assist for just a second and making tiny pitch/roll/yaw adjustments.

Both of these workarounds seem like they break the spirit of the travel mode. There should always be trade-offs for that much speed, and the apparently intended trade-offs are slow braking and slow turning.

Full stop and the flight assist toggle should not be usable while in travel mode. Or, perhaps better, if they are usable, they should result in hull damage or some other detrimental effect that represents putting a great deal of stress on the ship.

[ishmaeltheforsaken]

Neither of those are cheats, and no, they should not be "removed."

[CorruptUser]

I use boost just before engaging travel mode. Nothing like starting at 2000m/s rather than waiting for it to speed up...

[kmunoz]

Neither of those are cheats, and no, they should not be "removed."

"Cheats" is probably entirely the wrong word.

They feel like they go against the intended limitations of travel mode.

I use them, too, but every time I do I feel like I'm exploiting a loophole that creates imbalance.

Honestly I probably would be annoyed if they got removed. But I'd like to see some kind of trade-off. Some negative effect for choosing to over-tax the ship's engines.

[Cabrelbeuk]

Not having those would make the use of travel mode particularly tedious.

It's not like elite dangerous where super travel mode have safety breaks and stop anyway, and distance way longer (as are the travel time)

[1moreindakitchen]

Full stop didn't stop me immediatly for bigger ships though.
Actually, the fastest way to stop your bulky trade ship is just crashing into a station

[CaptObvious]

Full stop didn't stop me immediatly for bigger ships though.
Actually, the fastest way to stop your bulky trade ship is just crashing into a station

Glad I'm not the only one that does this since they turned off hull damage

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

1. So what? You can do the same thing in Elite Dangerous, although you receive damage for it. However, the ships here aren't going nearly as fast. Also, "instant" stop doesn't work as well on bigger ships. It's like stopping a semi.

2. I never use that. I just full on turn. It's space. Lots of emptiness. If there is a great need to change direction, I stop, turn, and re-engage it.

If it's a cheat, than the AI cheats. They will use travel drive/boosting to "boom and zoom" when they fight.

[Zealoth]

Yeah, I don't want anything to do with Elite Dangerous kind of flying
It's unfun and just makes you sit there diddling the throttle like *censored*

[JFJohnny5]

Instant start and instant stop isn't the same on every ship. I'm flying a Discoverer (Vanguard I think) which is pretty nimble, and I can flick Travel mode on and off to great effect. However, I recently captured a pirate S ship. I can't recall the class, sorry, but what I do remember is that its Travel mode took a couple seconds to "warm up" before it would engage. It wasn't the same experience or flexibility by a long shot. To say nothing of the fact that larger ships don't accelerate as quickly, and they definitely don't stop on a dime.

I don't think changes to Travel mode need to be made as it's not some "super awesome flight mode" you can use on every ship. On some ships, it can be used creatively and greatly increase your maneuverability. On other ships, its really only for long distance travel.

[Cybertrigger]

If you are in travel mode and just switch it off then you just slide along till you stop, with the stopping it actually uses a braking system like thrusting backwards to make you stop.
Think of it like driving a car you can just roll till the car stops or you can hit the brakes which makes you stop quicker.
Do you feel like you are cheating when driving a car and using your brakes ?

[Grimmrog]

Full stop didn't stop me immediatly for bigger ships though.
Actually, the fastest way to stop your bulky trade ship is just crashing into a station

Glad I'm not the only one that does this since they turned off hull damage

still risky, because you could end up IN the station.

[sd_jasper]

I think that deceleration in general is WAY too fast! I haven't timed it... but it seems that a ship can go from full speed to stop much faster than from stop to full speed (even though the forward facing thrusters should be much slower than the rear facing engines).

I'd like to see these numbers adjusted and make the use of high speeds require a bit more consideration.

[kmunoz]

If you are in travel mode and just switch it off then you just slide along till you stop, with the stopping it actually uses a braking system like thrusting backwards to make you stop.
Think of it like driving a car you can just roll till the car stops or you can hit the brakes which makes you stop quicker.
Do you feel like you are cheating when driving a car and using your brakes ?

"Slide along till you stop"? That shouldn't even be a thing. There's no friction in space. Turning off travel mode *is* using reverse thrusters. Using the full stop key is using reverse thrusters on overdrive.

[kmunoz]

I'd like to see these numbers adjusted and make the use of high speeds require a bit more consideration.

That's essentially my argument: I want the use of high speed to require some decision-making. Right now, there's no good reason not to use it, so if anything, the distinction between regular and travel mode could be removed entirely and it wouldn't make much of a difference right now.

It seems I'm in the minority, though. Maybe I'll make a mod someday.

[kmunoz]

I use boost just before engaging travel mode. Nothing like starting at 2000m/s rather than waiting for it to speed up...

At least boosting has a trade-off by draining shields. There's no trade-off with full stop or flight assist.

[SamuraiProgrammer]

Also note that you can adjust how quickly the speed bleeds off. Switching to full throttle right after cancelling travel mode will cause it to slow down slower and therefore travel further at fast speeds. Setting throttle to zero will bleed off the speed much faster.

[Alci]

At least boosting has a trade-off by draining shields. There's no trade-off with full stop or flight assist.

it works almost as intended.

If you turn off travel mode it also turn off flight assist automatically. You keep traveling in the direction while slowly stopping. That's normal behavior.

You can rotate as you wish (as you could in space) but that doesn't change your direction, you will still fly the direction you did. Again, that is how flight assist off is supposed to work.

And only if you touch speed control by full stop, or flying faster it turns on flight assist again meaning it uses engines to match the desired speed AND direction (that's why turning in travel speed is so slow, because it's hard to change the direction. Not where your ship faces).

The result is your observed behavior. If you full stop it doesn't turn off flight assist meaning you are locked to where you are heading and turning is slow. If you turn off flight assist (or not change the thrust after turning off travel mode) you can turn fast again but you will still fly the old direction "slowly" decreasing speed. You you turn around 180 degree and start engine it will slow to 0 "fast" (same as full stop) and then start normally accelerating in new direction.

That is how it is supposed to be.

The only "inconsistency" here is the slow turnout during assisted fast travel is artificial and not actual momentum vs thrust vector math. So it doesn't matter if you are traveling at 4km/s or 7km/s the turn rate is the same and kickin at around 1.5km/s universally. But the overall behavior with stopping and flight assist is is ok.

[luci]

I think that deceleration in general is WAY too fast! I haven't timed it... but it seems that a ship can go from full speed to stop much faster than from stop to full speed (even though the forward facing thrusters should be much slower than the rear facing engines).

I'd like to see these numbers adjusted and make the use of high speeds require a bit more consideration.

These little puffs of air you see while braking are made of extremely high dense lead dust actually.
The impulse it generates on your ship is equal to hitting a golf ball with Thors Hammer times eight, so the actual physics add up.

I have purchased one of these docking computer MKII a whilie ago.
Have not been braking since.
Just aim for the docking bay and keep the paddle on the metal.
Lands you just fine every time.

I love it.
Never change that!

[kmunoz]

At least boosting has a trade-off by draining shields. There's no trade-off with full stop or flight assist.

it works almost as intended.

If you turn off travel mode it also turn off flight assist automatically. You keep traveling in the direction while slowly stopping. That's normal behavior.

You can rotate as you wish (as you could in space) but that doesn't change your direction, you will still fly the direction you did. Again, that is how flight assist off is supposed to work.

And only if you touch speed control by full stop, or flying faster it turns on flight assist again meaning it uses engines to match the desired speed AND direction (that's why turning in travel speed is so slow, because it's hard to change the direction. Not where your ship faces).

The result is your observed behavior. If you full stop it doesn't turn off flight assist meaning you are locked to where you are heading and turning is slow. If you turn off flight assist (or not change the thrust after turning off travel mode) you can turn fast again but you will still fly the old direction "slowly" decreasing speed. You you turn around 180 degree and start engine it will slow to 0 "fast" (same as full stop) and then start normally accelerating in new direction.

That is how it is supposed to be.

The only "inconsistency" here is the slow turnout during assisted fast travel is artificial and not actual momentum vs thrust vector math. So it doesn't matter if you are traveling at 4km/s or 7km/s the turn rate is the same and kickin at around 1.5km/s universally. But the overall behavior with stopping and flight assist is is ok.

All of this is true, but you're missing another inconsistency. Switching to flight assist off while in travel mode actually causes you to decelerate fairly quickly. That shouldn't happen.

Of course what we're discussing here is the extent to which we are comfortable with the fake "physics" being utilized here. None of these behaviors are realistic - not even flight assist off. If we want realistic there shouldn't be any distinction between regular flight and travel mode, and and even if there is a flight assist option it shouldn't limit velocity.

My preference is to take the idea underlying travel mode (which is not based on physics by any stretch of the imagination), that is: high speed in one direction with limited braking and turning (both of which are the trade-offs for being able to go that fast - again, not real physics, but how the developers seem to want it to work), and make sure that those trade-offs can't be cheesed away by using full stop and the flight assist toggle.

It's apparent that I'm in a minority of one here, though!

(All that said, I use these workarounds all the time. I wish they didn't exist, but that doesn't mean I won't exploit them if they do!)