Why X4 feels empty and / or unfinished (explanation)

[reanor]

There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc... I just wanted to focus attention on a couple of things what X4 is. While it has some story planned for expansions, the game itself is completed, even though some bugs here and there. The thing that is unusual, which makes many people wonder, the X4 is not like other games. All the other X series had pre-developed factions with established economies and infrastructures.

From the description of X4:
"Factions build and expand stations dynamically and REACT TO THE ECONOMY and military threats. Every game can take a new and unexpected turn for the entire universe.
X4 will be the first X game to allow our races and factions to freely build and expand their empires; the same flexibility the player enjoys in creatively designing space stations from modular building blocks is also available to them. Races expand their empire based on supply and demand, which leads to an extremely dynamic universe where every action the player makes can influence the course of the entire universe."

This shows very clearly that all the factions around you will be expanding along with you, they have the same flexibility. So if you hack the money, or add any kind of money mod, instead of making the money the way you supposed to in game, you won't give them enough time to develop. This part specifically - "X4 will be the first X game to allow our races and factions to freely build and expand their empires" - it's obvious that these races and factions need time to develop and establish, that's the only way to have a truly dynamic system, where pretty much everything is possible and that is exactly how every new game can have unexpected turn of events.

When you gain enough faction and receive invitation to the Initiation ceremony, the first few missions are related to you helping this faction expand in specific region. So everything you see around, lack of enemy, lack of pirates, lack of established infrastructures - it's all because the game's AI is only starting to develop the factions and their systems. They will have to get enough resources in order to grow, build components, new ships, etc. This will all take time, so we just need to be patient and play the game and see how the AI handles the expansion. This actually opens up a lot of opportunities for a player and never been done in the X series before.

[Warnoise]

Wrong. It's because of buggy AI not producing fast enough to make up for its loss due to broken economy.

Stop spreading misinformation to justify bugs.

[RWolf]

From what I read, you cannot even own a sector, unlike NPC factions. So when you expand, its not even in the same way the NPCs are supposed to expand.

[Taramafor]

I do NOT consider this game completed. Not when past X games had content in it that this game does not ( real fights for one thing. Then there's NO DESCRIPTIONS FOR WEAPONS IN THE SHOPS).

If THAT'S your idea of "complete" then you have very low expectations. This game is a rushed release for Christmas and the devs know it. I know it, they know it and I think deep down YOU know it even if you're in denial about it. The "added features" are complete (immersion in this case) but core gameplay mechanics simply are not. Without the later the former wears off and leaves little in the end.

It will get fixed but really, must we pay for a FULL game (as was ADVERTISED) which lacks content from past games and then pay EVEN MORE for DLC? People are sick of that BS already from other companies doing it. Let alone withholding (or otherwise oversighting) things from past games in the same series for a later date. First time with X3? Fine, it's a new thing. It's a new game back then. Series still growing. But now? After they done it already?

As a quick example, in TC I can quickly go up to a station and start a mission which gets combat going. Quick, clean efficient. X4? Go to that one innocent ships and attack it for a wedding wing. The combat missions aren't even present. And yet they were in PAST games. Explain that.

[Nemesisone]

Well said! its how it is, its a big disaster, i was playing on a friends computer cus i could not wait, my station is huge the one you get after doing the science mission where you get antimatter get in some ice field etc... but i cant even walk in the station i just have to add modules and thats it lol and actually all stations are like that all station but no where to walk then in the dock or some silly transport elevator that has 3 doors always and is the same most of the time lolz. if you call that space legs im like sure what ever... i expected to be able to WALK trough a station, not to walk only over the ramps ... im SOOOO DISAPPOINTED in what they have released, hah they should GIVE the dlc for free as compensation for misleading publicity.

I do NOT consider this game completed. Not when past X games had content in it that this game does not ( real fights for one thing. Then there's NO DESCRIPTIONS FOR WEAPONS IN THE SHOPS).

If THAT'S your idea of "complete" then you have very low expectations. This game is a rushed release for Christmas and the devs know it. I know it, they know it and I think deep down YOU know it even if you're in denial about it. The "added features" are complete (immersion in this case) but core gameplay mechanics simply are not. Without the later the former wears off and leaves little in the end.

It will get fixed but really, must we pay for a FULL game (as was ADVERTISED) which lacks content from past games and then pay EVEN MORE for DLC? People are sick of that BS already from other companies doing it. Let alone withholding (or otherwise oversighting) things from past games in the same series for a later date. First time with X3? Fine, it's a new thing. It's a new game back then. Series still growing. But now? After they done it already?

As a quick example, in TC I can quickly go up to a station and start a mission which gets combat going. Quick, clean efficient. X4? Go to that one innocent ships and attack it for a wedding wing. The combat missions aren't even present. And yet they were in PAST games. Explain that.

[GrieferBastard]

X3 was functionally unplayable at release. There wasn't really an economy and periodically stations wouldn't make anything. It crash consistently.

The idea that X4 on release should play like X3 TC/AP did after 5 years of patches, some huge DLC/expansions and a bevvy of your favorite mods is absurd. It's vastly more stable and has dramatically more functioning parts and potential than X3 did at release.

[Baddieus]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

[Taramafor]

The idea that X4 on release should play like X3 TC/AP did after 5 years of patches, some huge DLC/expansions and a bevvy of your favorite mods is absurd.

Actually, no, it's not. If a series does all of that once it can do it again. More easily. Because they done it before. If you ALREADY done something then you know how to add it into a new game. Hell, it's how games evolve. Furthermore it's what MOST games do. The reason it took five years the first time was because they were still figuring out how. But at this point they know.

Past X games: Combat galore. Current X game: Lacking in combat.

Past X games: Random missions (by the time TC comes around). Of ALL types. Trade. Build. COMBAT. Current X game. Anything OTHER then combat.

This isn't rocket science. And it's a very simple thing. A very CRUCIAL core game mechanic in a game that ADVERTISES war and fighting along with exploring and building and trading. A very SINGULAR thing. Not five years of multiple content. Your argument is moot.

I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been.

X2 had a main story. It was actually quite fun. Introduced the Khaak. So while the X games have always been focused on being more sandbox, the statement of never being a story is actually false. X3 had a loose story too but X2 did it much better IMO.

[comieodor]

X3 was functionally unplayable at release. There wasn't really an economy and periodically stations wouldn't make anything. It crash consistently.

You are 100% correct, x3r is still my favorite of the series (been playing since X2), but that's only because I bought it new and then ended up shelving it for nearly a year (from memory it bugged out during a very early main quest mission, where you were needed to man a turret; preventing you from getting any further).

However,

The idea that X4 on release should play like X3 TC/AP did after 5 years of patches, some huge DLC/expansions and a bevvy of your favorite mods is absurd. It's vastly more stable and has dramatically more functioning parts and potential than X3 did at release.

This sentiment has been invoked a couple of times and I just don't agree. Times have changed a lot since X3r, which was released 13! years ago in 2005 (I'm so old! ) and TC and AP expanded on it, each being in slightly better release shape. The gaming landscape today has a mechanism for games to be released whilst they are still in development, early access.

I've managed to sink just over 10 hours into X4, so far - and whilst overall I've enjoyed it and have faith that my purchase will be rewarded in time (ego have good history with fixing their games) - It should have been made clear the game was in an early access state.

Spoiler

Show

The black market missions are so broken and I *cannot believe* this wasn't picked up in testing

amoungst numerous other bugs and feature gaps.

[kevrlet]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

All of the missions are soulless 'go here, shoot thing' or 'bring us thing' outside of the PHQ mission, which is neat. The PHQ is just another station currently. Research is...well it exists. They stripped down the ship variety, weapon variety, equipment variety. Combat is so entirely braindead simple that I have never once felt threatened in my 50+ hours in-game exploring every sector. But what really feels the worst in all of this is the dynamic economy and galaxy is either fundamentally broken right now or takes so long (reports say upwards of 100-200 hours) to kick off that almost nobody will stick around that long. I literally just drifted through core Xenon systems and only saw a SINGLE ENEMY FIGHTER. I saw 3 or 4 mining ships and some stations...but seriously. I flew through Xenon space without even getting a pot shot at me. This issue persists throughout the whole game; nobody anywhere is attacking or, seemingly, DOING anything. I haven't seen combat involving someone other than me since I first entered Argon Prime and watched Antigone get wrecked. That was it. That's all that's ever happened in the entire universe of note. THIS is why we feel like it is an empty game currently.

[Taramafor]

I flew through Xenon space without even getting a pot shot at me. This issue persists throughout the whole game; nobody anywhere is attacking or, seemingly, DOING anything. I haven't seen combat involving someone other than me since I first entered Argon Prime and watched Antigone get wrecked. That was it. That's all that's ever happened in the entire universe of note. THIS is why we feel like it is an empty game currently.

Which is the experience of so many.

Either the OP is in huge denial and desperate to see the good in this game making excuses for it and cares ONLY about their own enjoyment ALONE (which would mean they're happy with smaller fights) or they happen to have gotten into some epic fights which many players have not. If it's the former they never been to the main xenon sector in TC where there's a hundred ships (or earth sector pre AP/TC. Again, so many ships that can be FOUGHT). If it's the later then this game is broken and random as hell and no one in hell is going to twiddle their thumbs for 100 hours. Action, be it combat or trade, needs to happen from the start. In a progressive manner but still engaging.

Show of hands. Who here has fought against a capital ship and ten enemy fighters? Let alone 100 ships in main sectors (which are empty as hell in X4). Other then that one lucky bugger with the carrier. Lucky bugger. Why couldn't that be me?

[Baddieus]

"I flew through Xenon space without even getting a pot shot at me"

In X3 I could do the same until my fight rank increased significantly. A 'defend station' mission in the early game of X3 was not much more than an L with a pair of N's, but once the fight rank was up they would send the entire Xenon alphabet after that same station bringing literally 80-100 ships in though a gate like a swarm of insects. I say that we should all just keep playing and see how far things will go after some reputation is built up ... and not worry about the release bugs because Egosoft has a history of refining their products into gems.

[captainradish]

I flew through Xenon space without even getting a pot shot at me. This issue persists throughout the whole game; nobody anywhere is attacking or, seemingly, DOING anything. I haven't seen combat involving someone other than me since I first entered Argon Prime and watched Antigone get wrecked. That was it. That's all that's ever happened in the entire universe of note. THIS is why we feel like it is an empty game currently.

Which is the experience of so many.

Either the OP is in huge denial and desperate to see the good in this game making excuses for it and cares ONLY about their own enjoyment ALONE (which would mean they're happy with smaller fights) or they happen to have gotten into some epic fights which many players have not. If it's the former they never been to the main xenon sector in TC where there's a hundred ships (or earth sector pre AP/TC. Again, so many ships that can be FOUGHT). If it's the later then this game is broken and random as hell and no one in hell is going to twiddle their thumbs for 100 hours. Action, be it combat or trade, needs to happen from the start. In a progressive manner but still engaging.

Show of hands. Who here has fought against a capital ship and ten enemy fighters? Let alone 100 ships in main sectors (which are empty as hell in X4). Other then that one lucky bugger with the carrier. Lucky bugger. Why couldn't that be me?

Well, I did run across a couple of Xenon destroyers beating up on a group of Paranid capital ships. It was interesting to watch.

[kevrlet]

I say that we should all just keep playing and see how far things will go after some reputation is built up ... and not worry about the release bugs because Egosoft has a history of refining their products into gems.

I absolutely agree, and that is exactly what I am doing. It is boring trying to find any sort of combat though. I even tried tanking my rep with HAT and just blowing up all their crap and...nothing happened except they're red now. I'm still completely ignored in their space. Just gives me time to make a mining/trade empire I guess?

[rrohde]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

+1

Well said!

[SilverMind]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

+1

Well said!

That is my feeling too +1

[Liath]

X3 was functionally unplayable at release. There wasn't really an economy and periodically stations wouldn't make anything. It crash consistently.

You are 100% correct, x3r is still my favorite of the series (been playing since X2), but that's only because I bought it new and then ended up shelving it for nearly a year (from memory it bugged out during a very early main quest mission, where you were needed to man a turret; preventing you from getting any further).

However,

The idea that X4 on release should play like X3 TC/AP did after 5 years of patches, some huge DLC/expansions and a bevvy of your favorite mods is absurd. It's vastly more stable and has dramatically more functioning parts and potential than X3 did at release.

This sentiment has been invoked a couple of times and I just don't agree. Times have changed a lot since X3r, which was released 13! years ago in 2005 (I'm so old! ) and TC and AP expanded on it, each being in slightly better release shape. The gaming landscape today has a mechanism for games to be released whilst they are still in development, early access.

I've managed to sink just over 10 hours into X4, so far - and whilst overall I've enjoyed it and have faith that my purchase will be rewarded in time (ego have good history with fixing their games) - It should have been made clear the game was in an early access state.

Spoiler

Show

The black market missions are so broken and I *cannot believe* this wasn't picked up in testing

amoungst numerous other bugs and feature gaps.

I honestly don't think there was even 1 hour of testing TBH. If there was a lot of the blatantly obvious and stupid bugs would have been caught right off the bat.

What makes the universe feel empty to me despite being what I think is the smallest X universe so far, is that there is a lot of stuff missing in X4 that even the terrible release of X:R had -- items and ships and flavor. They could have kept the boarding systems from X:R, or hell just kept 99% of X:R and fixed up so that people could not be chained to a single ship and I'd have been happy.

I'll admit that there is a TON of potential in the new engine. Non cheating AI (to my knowledge and their description) makes economies that are awesome. Only real thing that would have made it better is possession of systems even for the player.

However, the ships are bland. The weapons are bland. The whole damned thing is bland. I really really do hope that patches and expansions will fix this but the other X games at least had that framework down before release. You had myriad combinations of ships and equipment. X4 just feels like "X:watered down edition" I'm hoping on one hand that yes, ES does have a reputation of fixing things post release.

But I honestly feel that despite the X4 actually loading for >1% of people at release, this is also the most unfinished one at release. Even X:R with its inability to even launch had the concepts and systems already in-game. X4 feels so incomplete that it will be really damned hard to get everything up to snuff.

[AkiraR]

"There are a lot of people complaining about X4 feeling very empty, unfinished, nothing to do, barely anything going on, etc..."


I don't see how this can be unless they are looking for a hand holding, story driven, direct path to an end kind of game ... which is something X has never been. I have a mere 25 hours playtime in X4 so far and I've transported people, docked on corvette class ships with my scout, found hidden missions in data leaks, scanned for good mining resources, destroyed some laser towers, repaired some satellites, ran from a pack of Xenon smothering a highway & gate I wanted to go through, discovered more than 1 anomaly that transports me somewhere else, successfully shot 10 locks off a round spinning lockbox, saved a ship in a mine field, crafted some security bypass chips and sold them to a black market dealer in a bar with excellent music playing, and only recently upgraded from my starting scout to a real fighter. I have yet to get to mining, trading, station building, Boron saving, or joining sides in the war. I'm sure there's more, but ya'll get the point by now ...

+1

Well said!

That is my feeling too +1

-1

Poorly said.

I have done all of that as well, sure I could for the 100th time fly along the surface of a station, find a sparky thing and whoppie another generic mission to do for a pittance, great. I'm done with the early stuff I want to get moving on to the mid-end game, and there is where the problem lies. I have a small fleet of mining and trading vessels now putting around the Argon systems making me some money. The problem is that at almost 30 hours in where before I would come across groups of pirates and Xenon on raids, now there is nothing, haven't seen a single pirate in the last 10 hours, and only the occasional lone Xenon ship. The economy has completely stagnated in the Argon sectors, there is zero demand for any mid to high end wares as no ships are being destroyed so no ships are being built, because there is NO CONFLICT. Combine this with the infuriating bugs present in the 'war'/guild missions and it seriously feels like zero extensive play testing was done. I have yet to be able to complete a 'war'/guild mission batch as there is always one sub-objective that is totally bugged out and can't be completed.

[IRONOX]

Maybe it feels so empty because X3:AP had a shat-load of content in the end.
- 325 ships,
- around 100 sektors,
- tons of weapons, missiles and equipment
- a fully build up universe from the beginning

the fact that many people spend hundreds of hours (me included) with so much stuff would make feel every game empty

[VariousArtist]

X3 was functionally unplayable at release. There wasn't really an economy and periodically stations wouldn't make anything. It crash consistently.

The idea that X4 on release should play like X3 TC/AP did after 5 years of patches, some huge DLC/expansions and a bevvy of your favorite mods is absurd. It's vastly more stable and has dramatically more functioning parts and potential than X3 did at release.

Oh, I think it should have been expected that X4 is more akin to Terran Conflict, which was probably the most polished release Egosoft had.
Simply because that X4 is somewhat just a more refined iteration of Rebirth, which X3:TC was to X3 (A refined standalone addon to Reunion).

Accepting mediocrity and excusing Egosofts release desasters is giving in to sunken cost fallacy.