Can someone teach me how to make credits through Auto Trading?

[Reposter]

Hi guys, I just got the game and have read up about auto trading.

Could someone please teach me how to make credits through Auto Trading? I have a Cerberus Sentinel with a Four star Pilot skill Captain. I prefer flying in my Elite Vanguard to complete missions around Black Hole Sun system. I want to set my Cerberus to Auto Trading mode.

Some players say Auto Trading does not work properly? They say they lose Credits instead of making Credits which is not what we want.

Appreciate some intel and maybe a step by step guide, thanks for any help.

[bl3ek]

Drop satellites on stations. Get a few adjacent sectors covered to give your traders a chance of success. It really does make a difference.

[rusky]

Don't use it for now, it really is that bad.

Use the filters on the map and identify trade routes yourself then queue them up on your trade ships.

Try trading in intermediates as they are the most profitable with an M trader, things like microchips, sat arrays, quantum tubes, engine components etc.

On the map, zoom out until you can see the area you want to trade in then go to the filters options ( on the right side of the map ) and select the products you want to trade.
Sadly you can only look at 5 at a time in a way that makes sense atm.

Compare the price per product. You want to trade in things that have a large difference between sold (less) and bought (more). Look for at least 50cr.

Then right click on the sold product on the map filter box, and select the tradeship you want to use and drag the slider all the way left.
Then do it agsin by clicking on bought product and dragging the slider right.

If you also have the property panel open and select your freighter there it auto selects the ship in the trade windows so it's much quicker.

Finally, queue up several of these purchase and sell orders. There's no limit and the orders are reserved so as long as your ship doesn't get blown up they will get fulfilled.

If you have enough capital and a few M freighters (and discovered a few hundred stations) you can easily set your traders to work for the next few hours in just a few minutes, and your money due from trades will be in the millions.

[JamesTheClarke]

Auto-trading is currently quite broken, unfortunately, so even after getting two 5 star pilots by now I still have to manage my ships manually - got satellites on every station and galaxy wide trading enabled, they still buy and sell according to proximity regardless of losing money in the process.

There needs to be an early loop-order command, i.e. go to station XYZ buy space weed and sell to station ABC - now repeat till infinity and beyond. The balancing could be that it only works as an automation between two stations and it won't change its orders even if prices fluctuate due to shifts in supply and demand, even make it a 1+ or 2+ star requirement for all I care.

Atm, I keep stacking manual orders on top of each other, wasting a lot of time on tedious micromanagement. The alternative, however, is losing or at least wasting money.


Side anecdote: after v.1.2 dropped I had a trader get stuck selling a load of space weed to the ever drug-hungry Paranids. He kept buying from the station he just sold to at a higher markup I might add, and then selling it below the buying price to the same station. Those Stoner-Paranids ripped me off for roughly a million credits until I figured out where the money leak in my trading fleet was.

tldr: use manual trading till a major trade patch hits the game.

[Shadowcub]

This might help you to set them up: https://youtu.be/2bZ5rUeOk0c

I personally have not encountered the losing money situation. I think there is some confusion surrounding this, frankly. Pilots will take credits from you to buy goods to sell (pretty straightforward). When they sell, an entry will be added to your Logbook (under the Player Information tab in the menu) telling you what they traded and how much money they made or lost. I have yet to have ANY traders lose money. Even 1 star pilots.

I also have very few satellites out there (probably less than 10). That said, I'm running around the galaxy like a headless chicken so prices are being updated as I (and my minions) fly by stations.

I think people losing credits are either:
A) Freaking out seeing that deduction message and don't know about the logbook.
or
B) Station information is not being updated regularly (by them not flying around a lot or not using satellites).

[CptBoby]

This might help you to set them up: https://youtu.be/2bZ5rUeOk0c

I personally have not encountered the losing money situation. I think there is some confusion surrounding this, frankly. Pilots will take credits from you to buy goods to sell (pretty straightforward). When they sell, an entry will be added to your Logbook (under the Player Information tab in the menu) telling you what they traded and how much money they made or lost. I have yet to have ANY traders lose money. Even 1 star pilots.

I also have very few satellites out there (probably less than 10). That said, I'm running around the galaxy like a headless chicken so prices are being updated as I (and my minions) fly by stations.

I think people losing credits are either:
A) Freaking out seeing that deduction message and don't know about the logbook.
or
B) Station information is not being updated regularly (by them not flying around a lot or not using satellites).

Love how you assume everyone ,who claims ai/autotrade is broken , is an idiot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/ ... f_i_hadnt/

just one example how borked it is. i have satellites everywhere ,but my game is only in hour 30 and economy has already collapsed completely . resources backed up on all stations. not one race is "expanding" nobody is building ships. enemy factions already disappeared. etc. you can call it a bug , ill call the dynamic economy a missing feature for now. we will see how long it takes them to implement it how it is advertised.

[Reposter]

This might help you to set them up: https://youtu.be/2bZ5rUeOk0c

I personally have not encountered the losing money situation. I think there is some confusion surrounding this, frankly. Pilots will take credits from you to buy goods to sell (pretty straightforward). When they sell, an entry will be added to your Logbook (under the Player Information tab in the menu) telling you what they traded and how much money they made or lost. I have yet to have ANY traders lose money. Even 1 star pilots.

I also have very few satellites out there (probably less than 10). That said, I'm running around the galaxy like a headless chicken so prices are being updated as I (and my minions) fly by stations.

I think people losing credits are either:
A) Freaking out seeing that deduction message and don't know about the logbook.
or
B) Station information is not being updated regularly (by them not flying around a lot or not using satellites).

Hi Shadowcub, I will check your video after work. I have my Cerberus started auto trading Antimatter Converters and have been earning 20k every 20 mins or so. It is only 1 ship for now, as I play and explore the game I will see if I can make more ships go on autotrading. It is working for certain to help me earn some extra credits.

[Shadowcub]

This might help you to set them up: https://youtu.be/2bZ5rUeOk0c

I personally have not encountered the losing money situation. I think there is some confusion surrounding this, frankly. Pilots will take credits from you to buy goods to sell (pretty straightforward). When they sell, an entry will be added to your Logbook (under the Player Information tab in the menu) telling you what they traded and how much money they made or lost. I have yet to have ANY traders lose money. Even 1 star pilots.

I also have very few satellites out there (probably less than 10). That said, I'm running around the galaxy like a headless chicken so prices are being updated as I (and my minions) fly by stations.

I think people losing credits are either:
A) Freaking out seeing that deduction message and don't know about the logbook.
or
B) Station information is not being updated regularly (by them not flying around a lot or not using satellites).

Love how you assume everyone ,who claims ai/autotrade is broken , is an idiot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/ ... f_i_hadnt/

just one example how borked it is. i have satellites everywhere ,but my game is only in hour 30 and economy has already collapsed completely . resources backed up on all stations. not one race is "expanding" nobody is building ships. enemy factions already disappeared. etc. you can call it a bug , ill call the dynamic economy a missing feature for now. we will see how long it takes them to implement it how it is advertised.

I didn't call anyone an idiot at all nor do I think it. I'm sorry you feel that way. I have 48 hours into my game with a healthy economy and all of my traders and miners are working well. Stations are expanding and ships are being built. In a few cases the wharfs and shipyards have run low on materials, but so far that's be remedied by waiting or having a trader do a manual run.

The OP asked a question to which I replied fully, telling what I've done so far to make profits and why I think people are having issues. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I have no problem with that.

Thank you for the Reddit post, I didn't look for any mods. I'm personally not ready to use mods in my game.

[ChaosShadow00x]

As others have stated, Auto trading is quite broken atm.

I thoroughly suggest instead you build a fleet of mining ships, as they do make money, if a little slower.

[StormMagi]

Check out this video for a rundown. Covers player and auto trading https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD_PfxFgWi4

[JamesTheClarke]

I think people losing credits are either:
A) Freaking out seeing that deduction message and don't know about the logbook.
or
B) Station information is not being updated regularly (by them not flying around a lot or not using satellites).

Unfortunately, that is simply not true. I wish there was a user error on my part here but after several hours of experimenting with auto-trading setups, I had to give up and conclude that the AI has some larger issue to make proper decisions.

Heck, I even sat down with a freshly made pot of tea and just observed auto-traders on the map screen for a full hour. Many, many times I saw my freighters clearly buying from more expensive sources because they are a few sectors closer by than the cheapest seller and afterwards they sold the wares to either the best possible station or if that one was further away to an intermediate buyer thus leaving higher profitssssss on the table for others to grab. Several times they bought wares at a higher price than they sold them for netting me an actual loss. Most hilariously the example described in my previous post.

Again, every of the 25 sectors I visited has a satellite on every single station - I was thorough.


AI decision making in any strategy or management game is very dependent on reaction to player inputs, depending on how the player progressed and what they did during that progression an early development AI may get stuck. It's not necessarily a universal experience - so if things work for you that's great, but there are enough people reporting major issues with auto-trading to take it seriously.

[Northlord]

I have been using the auto trader successfully while exporting wares from a single system. What has been crucial to me is that I limit the type of wares the trader handles and I have satalites on factories that purchase that item. In my situation I am trying to create demand in certain systems for raw silicone (for my miners) so I have been focusing on having traders export silicone wafers from systems with silcone refineries. I have not moved up to large freghters yet, but I have 10 medium freight traders. All of my traders have been making money and this way.

I have not been successful just using a glaxey wide auto trade with all wares, the AI seems to be much slower trying to firgure out what to get in that mode.

[JamesTheClarke]

I have been using the auto trader successfully while exporting wares from a single system. What has been crucial to me is that I limit the type of wares the trader handles and I have satalites on factories that purchase that item. In my situation I am trying to create demand in certain systems for raw silicone (for my miners) so I have been focusing on having traders export silicone wafers from systems with silcone refineries. I have not moved up to large freghters yet, but I have 10 medium freight traders. All of my traders have been making money and this way.

I have not been successful just using a glaxey wide auto trade with all wares, the AI seems to be much slower trying to firgure out what to get in that mode.

I have noticed the same thing in my testings, generally speaking when you use the sector quick-order to auto-trade in said specific sector it works fine. But if you include multiple sectors or even galaxy-wide trading it seems there is some kind of breaking point but I could not hone in what exactly causes it. It's not the number of goods, I quickly moved all my tests away from multiple goods and ran 5 separate test vessels with one good each in different settings. The only thing I can say for sure is that above 2 sectors the best choices by the AI cannot be guaranteed for all players anymore.

[Shadowcub]

I'm currently testing the galaxy auto trade on one trader (I've got all of my other guys empty and docked back at HQ). I dumped all but 1 million credits into the HQ. He'd been going for about two hours and has made 10 trades. I recorded these by hand.

The profits/loss are:
Run 1: +565
2: +863
3: +7279
4: +1989
5: +171
6: +254
7: +14,636
8: +143
9: +2,809
10: +482

Nothing to write home about, but it's creditsss.

Some other information:
The pilot is a two-star pilot.
My personal ship hasn't moved.
My satellite network is total crap right now (I have maybe 10 total satellites up, most of them marking anomolies to see if those are static).
The trader is not set to trade any specific ware(s), just all of them and isn't set to any specific sector range (just right-clicked the map and told it to auto trade the galaxy).

Ship loadout is as follows:
Ship: Hermes Vanguard
Turret: PAR M Bolt Turret Mk1
Shield: PAR M Shield Generator Mk2
Engine: PAR M Travel Engine Mk1
Thrusters: M Combat Thrusters Mk1
Software:
- Flight Assist Software Mk1
- Long-range Scanner Software Mk1
- Basic Scanner
- Trading Computer Extension Mk1

Modifications:
None


I've got a couple of things I'd like to try out as well:
1) Create a ship without the trading system extension and see what happens
- My recon dude doesn't have this, but I can still choose the command to trade.
2) Limiting trade wares
- Will probably limit it to 3 or 5 "crappy" wares like food and energy.
3) Limiting sector range
- Probably something like 1 min, 10 max.

And I'm starting to wonder if people are having trouble not necessarily with the traders, but with the satellites. Many are reporting that they have extensive networks. It may have something to do with the satellites not updating trade data or updating it incorrectly? Or something like certain softwares being borked? May explain why some are not having issues and others are not.

I think it would be helpful if we all do some testing and report our loadouts, general state of our games, and results. I bet we could drill down to the problem. Might need a new thread for this if anyone else is interested. (Edit: Screw it, I'll just start one. XD)

[Vandragorax]

The problem I'm seeing with this is my trader when told to auto trade galaxy wide just flies to the Argon trading station in Hatikvah's Choice and proceeds to queue up a buy order for Medical Supplies at 115 credits followed immediately by a Sell order for Medical Supplies at the same station for 117 credits. This is absolutely no use to anyone and would be a LONG way from even a mediocre trade if I looked by hand.

By the way if left alone she does this same trade over and over and over. I've given up with it for now.

[willfe]

Love how you assume everyone ,who claims ai/autotrade is broken , is an idiot.

I can't find the word "idiot" in his post. Hmmm...

you can call it a bug , ill call the dynamic economy a missing feature for now. we will see how long it takes them to implement it how it is advertised.

Cool. I'll call it Turbo, after my cat.

We can all shake our fists at this egregious breach of advertising etiquette and we'll get to the bottom of this travesty of justice!

Or maybe we can put the hyperbole to rest, eh? I know it's launch week and it's trendy to shriek that <brand new game> is <the worst thing ever> and is <missing everything I ever wished it could have> because <the devs personally hate me>, but you'd probably get on better if you used just a tiny little bit less venom and didn't jam words in other people's mouths when you do it.

[willfe]

I thoroughly suggest instead you build a fleet of mining ships, as they do make money, if a little slower.

Seconded. Build a big fleet of them and turn them loose. You'll have a steady flow of credits in short order. You'll hear that lovely electronic "ka-ching!" every couple of minutes if you build enough of them.

[Shadowcub]

Apparently, there is a fix in beta patch 1.21

You can get into the beta patch program by entering the code: IBackedUpMySaves

[Reposter]

Ok, apparently my latest progress in the game with my Auto Trading experiment has met some problem. I am using my Cerberus ship to Auto Trade with a Four Star Captain.

Now after 1 day of playing the game in real life time, the buying price of Antimatter Converters is lower than the selling price which I bought in all the Space Stations that I know off. If I do not track my Cerberus ship, I would make a lost from Auto Trading. With Auto Trade on, the behaviour of my ship is such that it would go to Argon Prime to buy the wares, then sell at Hatikvah's Choice I one of the Space Stations that buy Antimatter Converters. So what I think I have learnt is that Auto Trading is not exactly beneficial all the time... you still need to maintain some level of manual control of your trading ships, if not when prices fluctuate it would create loses if not monitored carefully?

I intend to get a transport ship sooner or later when I have enough credits, so what tips does anyone have with enough testing and experience to help in making Autotrading profitable and less micro management? Like some of the previous posts maybe Auto Trading needs some rework or upgrading? Please help me make auto trading profitable currently if it is possible. My experiment has proven the AI would make loss if not micromanaged... am I missing something?

@Shadowcub, are you making credits with little to no micro management?

[Shadowcub]

Now after 1 day of playing the game in real life time, the buying price of Antimatter Converters is lower than the selling price which I bought in all the Space Stations that I know off. If I do not track my Cerberus ship, I would make a lost from Auto Trading. With Auto Trade on, the behaviour of my ship is such that it would go to Argon Prime to buy the wares, then sell at Hatikvah's Choice I one of the Space Stations that buy Antimatter Converters. So what I think I have learnt is that Auto Trading is not exactly beneficial all the time... you still need to maintain some level of manual control of your trading ships, if not when prices fluctuate it would create loses if not monitored carefully?

@Shadowcub, are you making credits with little to no micro management?

In short, yes. I've started a thread for testing and reporting results if you want to participate or check it out: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=404638

The way autotrade worked in X3 regarding buying prices being higher than selling ones: the trader, if not set to participate in other wares, would simply dock and remain scanning for viable runs until they surfaced. Another thing with X3 was that autotraders would only trade one ware at a time. So, if it was set to trade Energy Cells and Microchips it may to a run for Energy Cells and then a run for Microchips. It would never do a "smart run" like pick up Energy Cells here, pick up Microchips here —> sell Microchips here, and Energy Cells here. So, in most cases, using smaller trading chips like the Mercury was more beneficial than using huge ones. It seems to still be the case in X4.

The level of the trader affects how many systems it can trade over (same as X3). A level 0 pilot can only trade over two systems. This limits the amount of options for the trader, and thus income. It's more beneficial to start a trader off in a well-connected area with 3 or more systems attached and lots of stations. It just gives it more options.

Watch out for outdated station prices. This can be remedied by a fly-by or satellite. It doesn't seem the trader will trade at all with outdated stations and will slow your trader's progress (and income).

In X3 I found traders did better with a limited number of wares. For instance, I'd run a couple doing energy only (because there always seemed to be an energy shortage), a couple doing the illegal goods (and usually food for back-up), ones for high tech, minerals, etc. So far, I've found it to be the case in X4 as well.

In X3, the greater the distance of the trade run, the faster the pilot would level. I haven't tested this in X4 outright (yet), but while doing a Food Resources mission, that trader went from level 1 to level 3 during the mission. I was buying stuff clear across the galaxy and running it back to that sector manually, and doing other manual runs while waiting to be able to deliver more. If you want to level a trader quickly, this may be a viable option until seminars are implemented.

Autotrade, I don't think, is or was ever meant to be a cash cow. It has and probably will be (at least for X4) more profitable to do manual runs or trade yourself. It's meant as steady income without much work. Like a CD gaining intrest. But, that's the beauty of the X series, there are a lot of options for profitsss.

I ran another short test last night using an all-round crapshoot of a pilot (level 0 in everything): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0 This was a literally right-click autotrade galaxy command with no other setup. I had the pilot start in Grand Exchange IV (which isn't the best place to start an autotrader). His range limit was 2 sectors at level 0.

I had two "lost profitsss" runs out of 25. One run at -11 credits and the other at -477. So yes, there is a bug. And yes, it likely happened with my other traders. The trader made 43,035 creditsss net. So far, this seems fairly on par with X3. Personally (and I will stress that again), I don't see a reason a reason to not autotrade, even with this bug. In that test, it's occured 8% of the time and only lost me 488 credits. If I include my previous test of 10 successful runs, that brings it down to 5.7% and very close to statistical insignificance. In my option, that's negligible. Egosoft recognized it and is obviously already on it. Frankly, if it turns out to be something like 3-5% of the time, I'd prefer it remain or be implemented... or maybe I'll do a mod... hmm... Bad trade, trader learns a little faster? ...Sorry.

I also tried out the beta patch 1.2 with the "autotrader fix"... but then they wouldn't even execute the galaxy command (XD). So I went back to 1.1.

Then 1.2 for real came out with the only note on traders being: "Fixed player ships assigned to stations not trading in some cases." I haven't tried this out yet, as it patched when I was done for the night.

I'll be starting a new game tonight for pleasure and a long-term test on autotraders and how pilot level affects income and how many trades it takes for a pilot to level up naturally, as I think this information would be far more useful for people in the long run, rather than focusing on what is likely to be fixed very soon (if it hasn't already). I'll be tracking the results in that spreadsheet as it goes.

I hope this helps you and gives a little insight into what is going on.

Edit: Edited the top quote to point to Reposter.