I was about to pre-order X4 (but want it on Linux)

[NewtSoup]

So here I was, ready to give my money to Egosoft once more to pre-order X4

My processor will do - it's and i5-3570k but it's overclocked to 4.2ghz so it should be ok.
My memory is good at 16gb
My graphics card will struggle as it's only a 660 Ti.. but I can upgrade that to an 860 on my current PSU.

The killer?

Steam says Windows 10

I'm not a Windows 10 user. I have loved the X Series because it always had a native Linux Client.

Please tell me there will be one. Please!

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/ ... uild.12673

Indicates that there may be a linux beta at relase - this will be good enough for me. I will be a beta tester and I will order the game.

Can anyone confirm that a linux build is indeed still in the pipleline?

[X2-Illuminatus]

We definitely plan to support Linux. If it will be released from the start or a little later will be decided close to release.

(Source)

Also, the system requirements on steam do not exclusively mention Windows 10, but also Windows 8 and Windows 7.

[StoneLegionYT]

Vulkan supports older windows so I can't see you being forced like DX12.

Developer would need to confirm but I'm pretty sure you don't need Windows 10.

[-Dna-]

You could also wait for someone to test the game using Steam Play/Proton and see what happens. It will not be like a native porting but someone in the Linux community is very happy with these new toys from Valve

[radcapricorn]

I have loved the X Series because it always had a native Linux Client.

Technically that's not true. It didn't "always" have a native Linux "client". XBtF and XT never had one, still don't. And the saddest thing is that you can't really enjoy them on Wine either, due to graphical glitches. X2 had a port made by a third party, and it's not supported or available anymore, but at least that one you can play through Wine. IIRC, X3 also didn't happen right away.

Pedantry away, I'm with you on the same boat, waiting for a Linux version. But I don't mind, there's still lots of fun in X3, and even some in Rebirth.

[NewtSoup]

I kind of knew someone would pick me up on BTF and X2 as I was hitting the button but I clicked anyway

I like to think that clients would have been there if Linux had had a little more support from hardware manufacturers.

Oh I think proton is great but there are some game that play better in Wine.

That said. I will be one of those testing now my panic has subsided. I'll be sure to try both Proton and Wine Staging ( I always use Wine Staging as it tends to support more features - albeit experimentally )


Time to get a new graphics card and see what happens.

On a side note - I am now quite enjoying rebirth. Last time I played I could not get past the URV factory shortly after entering De Vries. This time I have all the DLC installed and a few mods to make life easier and more interesting ( Yet Another Trader, Cap Ship Bridges etc)

[radcapricorn]

I kind of knew someone would pick me up on BTF and X2 as I was hitting the button but I clicked anyway

I like to think that clients would have been there if Linux had had a little more support from hardware manufacturers.

At the time of release of BtF and XT, Linux wasn't even a "good" desktop system, nor did it have as much coverage and usage as it does today. That's why the X2 port also didn't happen on release, and probably one of the reasons it eventually died off.

Today the big guys ship their drivers, but there are still problems in the middle men, i.e. what they call the "eco-system". If you want to utilize the potential of your hardware you either:
- reinvent the wheel and write huge hunks of very sensitive code from scratch. Egosoft doesn't do that for X3 or Rebirth, probably won't do that for X4 either. I actually can't think of any company that does, at least in public projects. Maybe they do internally.
- agree to use APIs that don't pay any mind to what "performance" on modern CPU architectures actually means, and infest your code base with fragile dependencies (case in point: X3 - Libz Conflict). That's what Egosoft and pretty much all other developers do.

Both points are huge sources of tension and friction, and still scare off developers from committing to Linux ports.

[NewtSoup]

Yeah, back around the time of BTF I was in university doing computer science. The computer suite was filled with Red Hat boxes. They worked well enough for what we needed ( Java programming, mainly ). At home though I used Windows 98 SE because it was the only OS that you could get games for and I was all about the games! ( I wanted to be a gamed developer myself back then )

[Sahvion]

Meh, just dual boot windows like I do; no reason really for us to ask the devs here to make us a Linux version when we can just dual boot... and quite frankly I haven't had any problems with windows (contrary to what some people like to claim)

[radcapricorn]

That's assuming you already have Windows and are willing to share space with it. I don't, and I don't. I'm not purchasing a whole OS just to play games, neither am I going to purchase another hard drive or split the ones I have.

[Vandragorax]

That's assuming you already have Windows and are willing to share space with it. I don't, and I don't. I'm not purchasing a whole OS just to play games, neither am I going to purchase another hard drive or split the ones I have.

I mean this in the nicest way, but that's your choice this sort of thing always strikes me as a bit selfish. We don't see threads popping up with people complaining vehemently that their unsupported graphics cards should be supported or else they won't buy the game. Most people concede that they need to upgrade a gpu or cpu now and then to play games.

If we don't have a copy of windows OS then we don't meet the min requirements, end of story. It's not unreasonable for someone to have to upgrade an os in the same way as hardware in order to play games.

Gamers usually understand that most games have only been officially supported on windows for the longest time. I agree that it's good for that to change, but I'd bet that most gamers who use linux also have a windows box or dual boot.

[radcapricorn]

I mean this in the nicest way, but that's your choice

Yes it is, and like I said I'm not bothered by the wait in the slightest. But neither am I going to pre-order, like NewtSoup.

[Phebus]

It's not unreasonable for someone to have to upgrade an os in the same way as hardware in order to play games.

Except it's not an "upgrade" to our operating systems. Beginning with Windows 8 and perfected with Windows 10, Microsoft no longer makes operating systems for their customers, but instead pushes out Malware-as-a-Service to computer owners who don't know any better (and, who conveniently, also serve as Microsoft's alpha and beta software testers, since Microsoft fired most of their QA people). Microsoft Windows is not an upgrade... it's a joke.

At least GNU/Linux gives people who have invested thousands of dollars into their computer equipment true ownership over their machines, instead of forcing your computer equipment to slave into the Microsoft compute cloud. But, "muh games," I guess.

[Alan Phipps]

No, we are not going to be debating Operating Systems here. Do that in Off Topic please. The OP wants X4 on Linux for their own reasons and that's really all that has to be said about that.

[Kittens David]

Well if the few linux customers are ready to pay 5K bucks and not 50 bucks as the 99% of windows player. Why not ? After all and no one can counter that fact porting a game under linux has a cost, takes away money from the original project, takes human ressources which all could be used to improve the game even more on its original OS. This is not troll but fact. Egosoft is not ubisoft, EA or other big company with nearly limitless ressources for their game. To me diverting a part of those ressources for porting the game on an OS on which the sales wont cover the porting costs is non sense and it is lowering the quality content of the game for all other players as it takes ressources away.

[CBJ]

Your argument might be valid if it weren't for the fact that the majority of the work has already long since been done. The game code is already sufficiently platform-independent and compiles for Linux, and there is full support for Linux in the Vulkan interface. While it's not completely trivial for us to make a Linux build, we can do it relatively easily, and it's pretty likely that we will.

[Kittens David]

Your argument might be valid if it weren't for the fact that the majority of the work has already long since been done. The game code is already sufficiently platform-independent and compiles for Linux, and there is full support for Linux in the Vulkan interface. While it's not completely trivial for us to make a Linux build, we can do it relatively easily, and it's pretty likely that we will.

Sure and I am glad people on linux will have their linux version. But has you said, the work has been done, so it had a cost in financial and human ressource. I am not aware enough of a game development but i dont think a game is develepop under a generic language then adapted to fit that or this OS. Correct me if i am wrong or not I am open to talks. So its not just "hey guys we coded the game under generic. Now we press a button and Voilà a linux version for free or a Mac Version for free or a windows version for free... " That has a cost, it takes guys time to do be it now or prior. That's why the accounting part of me is that cost is it covered by the sales on this or that OS taking account that the development/marketing cost of the game must still be counted in. So well in the end an honest balance of cost makes a porting on linux still makes it profitable ?

all this is purely talks, no offense, no trolling but curiosity as we all know your ressources are limited and you have to make choices to stay within the budget. Is a linux version honestly cost efficient ?

[Alan Phipps]

The logical side of me says that Egosoft already have had porting experts on their books in the shape of at least rboerdijk and timon37 (just check the existing X game Mac and Linux support threads). Egosoft probably want to keep that particular expertise in the team and not risk losing it to other employers so why not use them gainfully in that capacity at stages of the current project that do not call them to work urgently elsewhere? It seems a pretty obvious and relatively painless way potentially to expand their customer base, where commercially appropriate and worthwhile of course. Just my own opinion though.

[Kernel Panic]

...Correct me if i am wrong...

Only because you asked.

The concept of portable code has been around for decades. The biggest barriers to portable code are in the toolchain and the daily habits of the people writing code. A good tool chain and good coding habits go a very long way toward making code portable between operating systems or even other hardware platforms. This is why Windows can run on amd64 and arm cpus and why linux can on run almost anything from a mainframe (yes, they still make those) to a wrist watch (yes, they still make those as well) to a toaster oven.

The second biggest barrier to portable code is the use of non-free (that's free as in beer and free as in speech) APIs such as Microsoft's DirectX API. DirectX has been the number one way for Microsoft to lock-in game developers and game players to their platform. This lock-in used to be really great for their business but now it's just momentum. While there are several alternatives to Windows (Linux is just one them) a lot of people have a Windows habit they do not want to break. DirectX has also been one of the many reasons why smaller game studios have opted to no longer make games for Windows and instead moved on to developing games for consoles. That is be cause in order to get Microsoft to help you with the DirectX SDK you need to pay them a lot of money. Money that could be spent on thing like actually writing code, designing graphics, composing music, creating a website, catering lunch for press conferences, and all of the other stuff that goes along with making a game.

While Linux may have a small install base in the Desktop market, if you started counting all of the computers in this world that Linux is running on today you would die of old age before you were done. That's because every day countless new devices like toaster ovens, cars, wrist watches, and other things come online and they do it with Linux. This massive install base is only possible because over the last thirty years hundreds of thousands of developers working on all kinds of projects have made it extremely easy to create and use portable code on Linux. In business terms that means it is usually very inexpensive to port code to Linux. Even non-free API's like Micosoft's .NET have open source API's like mono so that the code can be portable and avoid lock in. So why is it taking so long for people to realize that they are no longer locked in to Microsoft? Like I said before it's momentum and habit. Just as Rome was not built in a day, it did not fall in day.

Things are changing with time. I no longer buy games that will not run on Linux. There are many, many others out there like me and the number grows everyday. Every time the Windows install numbers slip a little lower that means a small but measurable fraction joined the group. And that is a small but measurable amount added to the growing pile of money that Egosoft will not earn if they do not release a Linux version of their games. Which they can do easily and cheaply if they rely on a solid toolchain, good coding habits, a free API, and avoid vendor lock in.

[Kittens David]

I was open to free, constructive talks about the profitability and cost of porting a game on another OS than its original base. And you bring back your little rant against microsoft and windows. No gamer cares that industrial stations or watches run under linux. I dont play on a watch nor on an industrial station I play on a desktop station. And ok it is not running on linux you are not buying. It is your choice, on my side i wont deny myself access and fun to 99% of the greatest games to my eyes because they only run on windows.

To modertators sorry that someone turned a free serious talk about cost/profit back into that old rant linux vs the rest of the world. If you want to lock this thread or delete from my first talk feel free.