Modding questions

[stargatefreak92]

Hi all, new forum member here and a reasonably new player to the X universe, which I love.

I have a few questions concerning the modding capabilities, specifically for X Rebirth and partially for X3TC and AP. I'm posting here because Rebirth is the most recent game and I want to focus on that. I do want to note that, at this point, I own all games except for Rebirth, which I plan to buy later on.

On another note, I am an experienced 3D artist, amateur writer, designer and programmer so actually making 3D models, stories and scripts is not an issue.

What I specifically need to know is, what exactly can be modified/replaced in Rebirth? My specific goal for a long-term project is to effectively start with empty space and create my own universe from scratch; a total conversion where literally everything; ships, stations, planets, stars, sectors, possibly even characters, are replaced by my own. I am aware of the complexity of replacing everything, and I do not believe I can finish everything in a short timespan (hence the long-term dedication). I have searched around the internet (and this forum) and have found plenty of tutorials, tools and references to start making something, but I have not found sufficient information which describes any limitations to what is possible.

For 3D modelling, I use 3ds Max, specifically Max 2016 which is the second-latest version. The references I've found about bringing models into any X game are pretty dated, and I have not found specific details about Rebirth. If it turns out that Rebirth is not suitable, I would have to go to X3, which I believe does allow for total conversions with a completely new universe. But in that case, do any of the scripts/tools work with my version of Max, or do I need an older version?

I very much appreciate any help anyone could give me. I apologize if things are unclear, and please say so, I'll try to provide more detail if necessary.

[UniTrader]

just a few points from my side atm:

=> XR and X3 are fundamentally diffrent Games. Modding them is also completely diffrent (in X3 you can only replace/add complete files and for example all Ships are defined in a single File, where in XR each Ship/Object type is defined in a diffrent file and all objects are indexed in a single file, but both Object Definitions and Index File can be changed atomically without the need to replace the entire file) - the atomic changes dont apply to UI Modding though, here

=> Available Tools for X3 are better known, or better used at all (and i think there is a 3dsmax plugin for import/export). for XR there is a Model Converter from/to .dae to/from .xmf (XRs own Mesh format), but few people seem to have used it so far.. (i was one of them, but my work just required a flat square, so i can help you with the usage of the Tool, but not with the specifics of modelling for it)
btw: you can find it here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=360045

=> you can easily start from scratch for the Universe in both Games, and for X3 its easier to get into it because of the easy to use Galaxy Editors (both internal and external), but imo in XR you can do more with the Universe (also in XR here is no inherent size limitation, but 480 Sectors is plenty i think)

regarding limitations in XR this are the ones i encountered so far:
> No Custom Hotkeys (X3 has them)
> Multimacro Upgrades dont work bug-free (ie you cannt change one Surface Module for another in a running game but must stick to whats defined in the Ship definition)
> No Tools for Creating/Importing Animations (but opposed to X3 Animation Triggers are available, not just looped like in X3)

cannt think of more to write atm

[stargatefreak92]

just a few points from my side atm:

=> XR and X3 are fundamentally diffrent Games. Modding them is also completely diffrent (in X3 you can only replace/add complete files and for example all Ships are defined in a single File, where in XR each Ship/Object type is defined in a diffrent file and all objects are indexed in a single file, but both Object Definitions and Index File can be changed atomically without the need to replace the entire file) - the atomic changes dont apply to UI Modding though, here

=> Available Tools for X3 are better known, or better used at all (and i think there is a 3dsmax plugin for import/export). for XR there is a Model Converter from/to .dae to/from .xmf (XRs own Mesh format), but few people seem to have used it so far.. (i was one of them, but my work just required a flat square, so i can help you with the usage of the Tool, but not with the specifics of modelling for it)
btw: you can find it here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=360045

=> you can easily start from scratch for the Universe in both Games, and for X3 its easier to get into it because of the easy to use Galaxy Editors (both internal and external), but imo in XR you can do more with the Universe (also in XR here is no inherent size limitation, but 480 Sectors is plenty i think)

regarding limitations in XR this are the ones i encountered so far:
> No Custom Hotkeys (X3 has them)
> Multimacro Upgrades dont work bug-free (ie you cannt change one Surface Module for another in a running game but must stick to whats defined in the Ship definition)
> No Tools for Creating/Importing Animations (but opposed to X3 Animation Triggers are available, not just looped like in X3)

cannt think of more to write atm

Thanks, at least its a start. Judging from this, would it appear that X3 is easier or more suitable to mod? Or is it just apples and oranges?

Of course, more helpful pointers are always welcome.

[Andy_MB]

> No Custom Hotkeys (X3 has them)

Is it realy gameoptions.lua cant be changed?
I cant insert any string in menu.controlsorder ?

Why? This possibylities bloced by core?

For example MainMenu can be changed by external users script.

... I'm trying to add a hotkey (Shift+J) for JD, but nothing happens.

[UniTrader]

changing the lua files is not the problem - if all else failse you can do full file replacements like in X3 via the subst_01.cat/dat (just rename you .lua file to .xpl so it replaces the original binary file - content can remain plain lua )

the actual problem is somehow making the hotkey event available anywhere... i had some partial sucesses with a few lua hacks when some Menu was open (which i changed before to print a message to the Log when my key is pressed or released) but i couldt bring this method to work in Free Space so far.. and there it would have the most usage..
Also the INPUT_ACTION and INPUT_STATE seem to be hardcoded, at least i didnt find an editable file where they are defined yet.. but i worked around that by using the actual Key which was pressed instead of these aliases..

[Andy_MB]

changing the lua files is not the problem - if all else failse you can do full file replacements like in X3 via the subst_01.cat/dat (just rename you .lua file to .xpl so it replaces the original binary file - content can remain plain lua )

I tried to do as You say, but nothing happens.
I do full file replacements (put it to the root XR=..\steamapps\common\X Rebirth\)

What am I doing wrong? Help me please with the first step.

https://yadi.sk/d/lGOGIgAhuPAmE
link to the subs_01

[UniTrader]

site currently unavailable - will try to look later, but remind me by the weekend if i didnt reply by then.. i tend to forget about such things when immersed in my own stuff..

[Andy_MB]

Remind.
Please look at my subst01.

[UniTrader]

sorry, still cannt DL.. (same error as before)

but just interested in the content of the subst_01.cat currently (it should be short enough to be included into a post ) - because the other Files i can see through your Link (but for some reason not DL) contain diffrent file names from the Core Game Files - which cannot work if you want to replace them..

[Andy_MB]

subst(cat) contains:

ui/addons/ego_gameoptions/gameoptions.lua 236223 1471524851 158623c6635a15f8d85169af3dfe9cc5
ui/addons/ego_gameoptions/gameoptions.xpl 236223 1471524851 158623c6635a15f8d85169af3dfe9cc5
ui/addons/ego_gameoptions/ui.xml 487 1452119409 c537d67c23b193b9ead52f965ca54717

gameoptions.lua & gameoptions.xpl eqval and contains lua code.
subst(dat) contains 3 files (2 lua & 1 xml (ui.xml
without changes)

.. t folder and other - is my mode for Jum to XYZ. It works through a button in MaynMenu

... I tried to rename subst01 to a 10.cat/dat - nothing (

[UniTrader]

ok, managed to DL (some more indicative message like "you cannot download files contained in an Archive" would be helpful) and i think i know whats wrong now: the subst_01.cat/dat goes into your Extension Folder, not in the Game Root.

[Andy_MB]

I put them in the root of the game.
nearby 01.cat/dat

the root directory structure stored in the archive

[UniTrader]

and that is the mistake. it should be put into your extension folder. otherwise the game cannot know to which extension they belong.

[Andy_MB]

Thanks!
It worked! but the first run crash the game.
I continue to experiment
...
the 1st menu (control menu) does not appears and the game freezes, even when I put in the original files in subst_01 arc. (ESC button restarting the game)
How the game core loads the files from subst_01 ?

[UniTrader]

as if it were the 10.cat/dat in the game root (if your mod is the only one using this method, otherwise in order of dependencies)

[Andy_MB]

Vicious circle.
I can not change through the Root (10cat./dat) but can chang via the extension folder.
And I can not use the name of addon with the prefix ego_ from my ext. folder.
(addon name="ego_gameoptions" )

no variant to change gameoptions.lua!?
there a way out?
How to change?