[MOD] Repack CV

[mihaib]

I am working on a repack construction vessel mod, and I was thinking that it would make sense to have a way of repairing stations without using the architect (since the CV has departed).
The best way to do this is to modify the engineer so that you can assign it to stations, just like the Station Engineer mod does.

Do you think it would make sense to have the engineer modified inside this mod or should I keep them separate?
Also it looks like Station Engineer is not on Steam so a lot of people might miss out on it.

Edit:
I decided to publish this mod together with the ability to assign engineers to stations.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =531342056

[JESS 246]

Hi mihaib

I had mentioned something in the station engineer mod thread about this that there's no engineer in the station crew menu so i use the cap ship engineer.

I see you have posted a word on his thread but If you chat with the station engineer mod author w.evans and together place a proper engineer in the station crew list or probably a better option place one in the specialist crew list.

[mihaib]

Hi Jess,

The cap ship engineer and skunk engineer are the same. You can check their names in the hiring menu to confirm.
This means that a station engineer is also the same with the cap ship one and the skunk engineer.

Of course it would be nice to have the engineer listed in the hiring menu for stations and I might even take a look at that if I have the time.
I would also like to add a maintenance mission for stations to request an engineer.

For now, I don't know how to do any of these, or even if it's possible, and it's mostly a matter of finding the time for it.

[Goliathmk2]

This mod on the steam workshop will allow you to do both.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =333203008

[JESS 246]

Hi mihaib

If that's the case of the same engineers why did the developers waste time and code to place them in separate crew sections why not all ship crew under one list and station under station or specialist and why didn't they have a station engineers from the start.

Sorry i did forget to mention the same thing that Goliathmk2 said that the mod he mentioned dose a similar as what you are trying to do.

good luck in what ever you do in modding.

[mihaib]

I think the devs chose this option just to inform the player of what crew each of the cap ship, station and skunk needed, although I'm not sure since specialists are not listed under the station crew rooster.

Also, NPC stations all have engineers assigned to them for repairs. Not sure why the devs decided that the player would only repair using the architect.
Maybe to make our life harder? Or maybe just to justify the CV being stuck to the station.

I know of that mod. I allready talked with the author on a different thread that I created a while back about the CV repack.
We had different approaches to this, but both of us had issues with a bug that was fixed in version 3.61
My mod is already working, but I still need to test that the bug is fixed, so I'll probably release it in a day or two.

[Baconnaise]

Also, NPC stations all have engineers assigned to them for repairs. Not sure why the devs decided that the player would only repair using the architect.
Maybe to make our life harder? Or maybe just to justify the CV being stuck to the station.

The game was different when it was launched. CV's used to detach from the station and head off mining or trading. CV's were the best ship in the game for mining or trading due to universal storage and cost. Omicron didn't have the ships they have now much a less a working economy and several broken stations. I think Omicron was eventually fixed to a more workable state once Teladi Outpost hit. I know it was 2.20 or greater before Omicron could even be considered "working".

Anyhoo CV's used to run around and do trading or mining after each stage was built so Ego eventually locked them down so they wouldn't move once a station was started. I haven't bothered to check to see if they ever put limitations on CV's yet. Just about everything in the game was broken at some point for a long period of time. They were still the best ship in the game in the 2.0+ series of updates. I imagine they're still the best trader/miner since they would have to gut something to prevent that usage. I recall being able to put engineers on stations back at release but I could be wrong. NPC stations are a different beast and don't have CV's attached permanently like the player to initiate repairs after this quick (for Ego) and dirty fix.

That's why Ego did what they did. It should also be noted that rooting CV's in place is also a huge weakness for player stations considering how easy they are to destroy. No clue if they ever officially addressed that but I lean towards the NO side after all this time. You must be new to the game so Hi!

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

The game was different when it was launched. CV's used to detach from the station and head off mining or trading. CV's were the best ship in the game for mining or trading due to universal storage and cost. Omicron didn't have the ships they have now much a less a working economy and several broken stations. I think Omicron was eventually fixed to a more workable state once Teladi Outpost hit. I know it was 2.20 or greater before Omicron could even be considered "working".

Anyhoo CV's used to run around and do trading or mining after each stage was built so Ego eventually locked them down so they wouldn't move once a station was started. I haven't bothered to check to see if they ever put limitations on CV's yet. Just about everything in the game was broken at some point for a long period of time. They were still the best ship in the game in the 2.0+ series of updates. I imagine they're still the best trader/miner since they would have to gut something to prevent that usage. I recall being able to put engineers on stations back at release but I could be wrong. NPC stations are a different beast and don't have CV's attached permanently like the player to initiate repairs after this quick (for Ego) and dirty fix.

That's why Ego did what they did. It should also be noted that rooting CV's in place is also a huge weakness for player stations considering how easy they are to destroy. No clue if they ever officially addressed that but I lean towards the NO side after all this time. You must be new to the game so Hi!

Thanks for interesting history from back before I started playing in 1.25 beta.

Couple of updates from recent times:
1. CVs are now prevented from selling wares and mining to counteract them being far more cost-effective than dedicated alternatives. I think those changes arrived in v2.50 as there are related changes in v3.00 but I am not positive. CVs can still purchase wares (lets people continue to shop for station materials if desired). Although they cannot sell wares, the new Transfer Ware order lets us move any excess off a CV over to another ship (prevents CVs getting clogged up with stuff).

2. Although CVs are not super strong, several improvements help to keep them safe while at stations. Those changes being:
- The ability to replace destroyed CVs (v2.50).
- Stations with DOs set to Attack will actively protect the CV (v3.20).
- OOZ radar being fixed so we can see what is going on (v3.50).
- Improvements and fixes to OOZ combat calculations to better mimic IZ behavior (as recent v3.61).

[mihaib]

Hi,

Yes, I'm new. I had the game for a while but only started playing at version 3.53
Now, the CV can't be used for trading, so mining would be useless also, unless you have another trading ship loading and unloading wares from the CV, but it defeats the purpose.

Also there are a few universal cargo vessels now, so no need for the CV anymore in that role. They aren't cheap though, but you can always capture some Titurels instead.
Indeed it is a weakness to have the CV parked at the station like that, but if it gets destroyed you can replace it with another. Still, I don't like this option so that's why I made this mod.

[JESS 246]

Hi All

Most of what i've read about this mod and CV's/engineers has been enlightening fair enough we do need better CV's and station engineers and one of you has mentioned that CV's go off and trade and there was a chat about this in another thread/posts i know the CV can trade i've done it and another player wanted to use the CV for trade but an admin/derv chirp in and said this can't be done.

mihaib You and the other authors carry on and make this game what it should be as the derv's don't.

Maybe while you and others are designing mods it has been mentioned many time we need a repair ship like the CV that when we have a captured ship or one damaged in battle this repaiship can repair and restock the damaged ships/stations.

I had mentioned this about engineers in the past why not have engineers on the princerable like marine officers as like this we hire the chief engineer and then through the recruit trader we buy engineer fitters you can't have one engineer do all the repairs on their own it not logical.

[Baconnaise]

Thanks for interesting history from back before I started playing in 1.25 beta.

Aye. It was a dark time. The peasants didn't know what else would break with each subsequent patch. Fast forward two years and the game is playable ;p.

[strude]

I think it depends on the CV function after it's detached.

If a station gets damaged and a CV can be reattached to do repairs, then leave the station engineer to the other mod, and maybe link to it in your mod description to give people the option.

If the CV cannot be re-attached, and the only way to repair a station is with a station engineer, then include the functionality in your mod.

Since you've been working in this area, may I ask a question? I'd like to use the station engineer, and just remove the CV completely. Not repack it for other uses, but just say it's job is done and remove it. Is just removing the CV difficult or is there a bit of work to do. I haven't looked into it at all myself yet.

[mihaib]

Hi Strude,

The game gives you, by default, the option to deploy a CV to a station that has none (because it was destroyed).
This mod does not change that and you can use the same CV to deploy back.

One way to think about having both the engineer and the architect for repairs is that now you have to options. The slow way and the fast way.
If the station is heavily damaged, it isn't producing because of the damage, you still have the option to pay the architect for instant repairs.
It seems that the engineer will take a while to repair heavily damaged stations.

I have been doing tests and there is a problem when using a repacked CV to deploy to existing stations.
If you do that, the architect starts rebuilding existing modules.
New station building works fine, but I want to try and fix the architect issue.

And thanks for the feedback

[mihaib]

Since you've been working in this area, may I ask a question? I'd like to use the station engineer, and just remove the CV completely. Not repack it for other uses, but just say it's job is done and remove it. Is just removing the CV difficult or is there a bit of work to do. I haven't looked into it at all myself yet.

I forgot to answer on this.

I think it is easy to remove the CV from the station at the press of a button.
You can call <destroy_object> on the CV, but all you crew, wares and drones will be lost.

I didn't tested this so I'm not sure, but it should work like I described.
Another option is to repack the CV, call <destroy_object> on the build module so that you can't use it for other stations, and then sell the ship.

[Ezarkal]

Would it make sense to simply have the architect transfer to the station?
Then you could still expand/repair the station from the initial module. Just make sure it has storage for the required wares, and have it launch it's own construction URV.

Of course, it would mean you only need 1 CV (with a new architect each time) to spawn a whole trade empire, unless you remove the CV once the first module is completed. (CV gets "consumed" in the station construction, like many players thought it would be at first.)

[UniTrader]

doubt this will work because the architect needs the buildmodule on the CV to build something (like a Shipyard needs a Ship Cradle to build Ships)

[mihaib]

It won't work just to transfer the architect. I can confirm that we need the build module that the CV has.
This means that all stations need to be modified to have a build module and even then there could be other problems. Storage must be added in the same way.
I also thought that the CV should have been consumed and give you the first station module for free or at reduced cost, but modifying all stations is to big a change for me.

The current approach solves two issues for me.
The first is that I really don't like how the CV hangs around for no reason near the station after everything is finished.
The second problem is that it is really hard to create CVs in the campaign when Plutarch is hostile and Albion shipyards are stuck building ships without components.

At present I have 3 CVs, and I'll probably own more. That is because different CVs can build different stations.
You need Albion, DeVries and Omicron CV, and maybe more than one of each type if you want to build quickly.
Of course, at some point you are done and you can just sell them, but it would be hard to create a big company with only one CV to start with.
I am already building in DeVries, every day, for a month now using this mod and I'm still not finished. Things don't seem to go fast just because I can reuse the CVs.

I would have really liked to be able to make this mod like you described and consume the CV, transfer everything to the station and continue building without the CV.
It would have been perfect and match what the DEVs intended, even though it would have been hard to get new CVs during the war.
Failing that, I'm pretty content with this simple, backup solution

[Ezarkal]

It will still be a great addition to the game. I'll give it a try!

[JESS 246]

Hi mihaib

I agree with Ezarkal that the architect get transferred to the station and work with the engineer as that would be more logical.

While you work out the CV and architect/engineers how's this for an idea how about when we order the architect to build a station instead of keep going back after each module build to order the next module we order the architect to completely build the station in one go and with a sub menu that we can list the total build in order according to players preferences to which modules build in order and notified when completed while we can assign the CV to disengage leaving the architect with the engineer to continue the build.

[mihaib]

Hi Jess,

Like I said, the architect needs a build module to be able to build things, and stations don't have one.
For this to work I will need to add to all stations at least one build module and one storage module for wares.
Even if I do this and it would work, it might not work with other mods that add stations.

It's an interesting idea to have the architect completely build the station according to a sequence chosen by the player, but I have no idea if it's possible.
Also, creating menus and submenus and any other UI work is something that I still have to learn about.
In any case, it's something to consider for future versions of the mod.